Should anyone be flying at 86 years of age...

[Guest fullstoplanding]

Ahem...65

[Bunson Honeydew 0]

Oh boy, they finally raised the retirement age? I grew up in a NY suburb which was filled to the brim with airline pilots, and they all flew off into the sunset at 60. I guess it won't be too long before there are a couple of crusty old 86 year olds in the cockpit of an airliner, yelling at the baggage handlers down below to "get off my lawn!!"But I won't be on that plane! Sorry!Bunson

[Guest fullstoplanding]

"No blanket judgements....just the question."Answer...Yes. If it's OK with the FAA, it's OK with me.--Roger

[Guest fullstoplanding]

They didn't finally raise the retirement age. It's back to 65 where it had been for quite a while.

[Bunson Honeydew 0]

well, maybe the airlines (or the union?) tossed them out at 60, then, cause everyone I knew was out at 60, the last being a friend of my fathers that flew for American, who retired back in the 1990's. I remember because he wasn't all that happy about retiring at that age.Anyway, this is getting a bit off topic, so I'll stop here.Bunson PS-Well, I just googled this, and bush just signed the bill into law in dec '07 to raise the age to 65, and the requirement to retire at 60 was instituted back in the late 1950's. You had me thinking I was going nuts there for a minute!

[Geofa 108]

Should an 86 year old be driving a car without having to do a standard medical, or 2 year renewal?How many car accidents have been caused by 86 year old car drivers where age was the factor vs. plane crashes by 86 year olds where age was the factor? Might be an interesting compare?As I posted in another thread, one of my flying partners recently had an incident where 4 16 years olds decided to see if their car could do 100 mph on a rural road, lost control, and came flying thru his house at 10:30 pm. Luckily no one was killed-but the house was trashed. If that was a plane I bet it would have made national news-it didn't even make local news here. Might explain the faa's minimum age rule however...http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1b5baf...b9f427f694g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[Guest fullstoplanding]

"They didn't finally raise the retirement age. It's back to 65 where it had been for quite a while."Bunson,My saying it's back to 65...etc., may not be accurate. I Googled around, but couldn't find anything telling what, if any, was the mandatory retirement age prior to the 60-rule. Sorry.--Roger

[btacon 1,807]

"Should an 86 year old be driving a car without having to do a standard medical, or 2 year renewal?"Hi Geofa. That is indeed the crux of the question. When compared to automobile drivers, 86 year old aviators are probably more of an exception than the rule. That said, just like the issue of aged drivers, aged flyers may require more scrutiny for no other reason than age.This is an ongoing debate around drivers. I think it is a fair question to ask about flyers, regardless of how much we love aviation.Finally, as for those aged aviators who would "give up" flying if they felt they were impaired...I think that would happen as much (or maybe less) than it does with aged drivers. Statistics show that as our population ages it is not happening enough.bt

[Geofa 108]

"That said, just like the issue of aged drivers, aged flyers may require more scrutiny for no other reason than age."Is not having to pass a medical and pass a flight review more scrutiny? Are car drivers required to do the same?Speaking of 86 years old drivers:http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,92133,00.htmlI am not aware of any 86 year old pilots doing the same-and the case you state above there have been no findings yet-though it sounds like and engine failure which has little to do with age.You are correct though-at that age there are not many pilots because few can pass their medical/flight review. The ones that can however, have!I'd be more worried about elderly car drivers myself-who really don't have to pass anything but whether they can slide behind the steering wheel.http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/131387_drivers18.htmlhttp://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1b5baf...b9f427f694g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[Avcomware 1]

Hi bt.Most of the older pilots have a Medical every year. Given the fact that they can pass a Medical, and I have yet to see one that would go flying if they do not feel able, the only other factor to safety is Recent experience. I would rather have my family fly with my body Jack that flies almost on a daily basis, than a 30 year old that flies once every 90 days, or longer, just to show off to his neighbors. It is more likely that younger pilots would try something beyond abilities than an 80+ year old. Most of those guys have been flying for over 60 years, and have No death wish, they do it because they love it. And would not do anything to jeopardize it. I think the most problematic age is around 45-60 when it gets hard, for some, to accept the fact that they may not be able to do some of the things they think they should be able to do. Once over that hump, you either do it because you enjoy it, assuming you are in good health, or stop, regardless of the health status. TV

[Geofa 108]

Interesting that my friend in his mid 80's is also named Jack.Our local faa examiner has gone on record as stating he is the best pilot he has ever come across in his life-even now at that age...and I have had my family (wife and son) fly with him many times.http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1b5baf...b9f427f694g.jpgMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

[Avcomware 1]

Hi, Geof.Jack started flying in WWII the F4U4s then got his Aeronautical Engineering degree and worked for Douglas until a few years ago. He has been flying ever since. He is a character. I am just wondering how many maybe be around with that kind of history? I know a few old timers but Jack is a specimen. He just renewed his Medical. TV

[Guest Bill_M]

btacon asked "Should anyone be flying at 86 years of age?" and then he opined that his was "A legitimate question in light of this aviation accident of today"I do not believe that the question is either legitimate or valid. It makes assumptions about someone "at 86 years of age" and generalizes from the single incident. One could easily infer from his question and other responses that for him the answer is "NO!".Now had he asked if SOMEone - as opposed to ANYone - should be flying at 86 years of age that would have been a valid question. As a rule, one's abilities diminish as one ages and so one might legitimately question whether an 86 year old person should be flying. The appropriate answer would be "yes - if he/she meets the FAA requirements." One's age - or gender or ethnicity - should never be a factor in whether the INDIVIDUAL should be allowed to do something or hold a job. The sole determining factor should be whether or not the INDIVIDUAL meets the physical, intellectual, whatever requirements to perform the task. I am only 57 but I got out of electronics becase it was clear that I was not getting jobs because of my age. The employers want young people - with decades of experience.I would suspect that btacon has yet to pass their 30th birthday. I wold even be willing to bet that he/she is shy of their 25th birthday. In my experience questions of the sort btacon raises are most likely to be raised by people in the 1st decade of adulthood. I also find it disturbing that so many responding to btacon's question agree with the initial premis - i.e. that 86 year olds should NOT be allowed to fly. If someone raised the question of whether a black man shold be allowed to do something and provided a link to a story about a black man doing something heinous people would be decrying the obvious racism of the question. Likewise if some under similar circumstances questioned a woman's fitness to do something, or, citing a slumlord who happened to be Jewish, questioned whether a Jew should be allowed to own rental property the howles of righteous indignation would be deafening.So why is it acceptable to question a person's competence based solely - I say again BASED SOLELY - upon the person's age? Sure some - perhaps the majority of - 86 year olds are not competent to drive. FRELL! My father-in-law is 84 and neither my wife nor her sister like to ride with him. Occasionally he does things that could potentially get him hurt or killed. But I never go anywhere where I do not observe SOMEone do SOMEthing that could get themselves and/or someone else hurt or killed. I take umbrage at the question. But then I was in a light aircraft crash in 1970 that was attributed to engine failure. I cold have died that day. I probably DID in a different time track. But the official NTSB conclusion was that it was caused by engine failure. Wonder what this one will come down to.Bionic Bill

[Guest Bill_M]

Here is a link to the preliminary report on the incident:http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=2...613X00862&key=1This is a link to the search engine:http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/Query.aspI'll be interested to see what the final ruling is.

[btacon 1,807]

Bill...I'm sorry you took umbrage to my question.FYI...I am 51 years of age, an aviator, and a former air traffic controller.Your somewhat histrionic response surprises me, and would make me question your age, although you clearly state it as 57. Statements like:"If someone raised the question of whether a black man should be allowed to do something and provided a link to a story about a black man doing something heinous people would be decrying the obvious racism of the question. Likewise if some under similar circumstances questioned a woman's fitness to do something, or, citing a slumlord who happened to be Jewish, questioned whether a Jew should be allowed to own rental property the howls of righteous indignation would be deafening."in my experience also belong to those who are just coming into adulthood.Just another example of how things are not always as they seem.bt