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lcseale53

The 737-200 from Richard Probst to be finished.

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Hello fellow aviators!I am pleased to announce that Bob Scott and me have teamed up to finish the fabulous Richard Probst 737-200 panel.It was a shame that Richard Probst work ended so soon.I think that all of us were hoping that he will finish the panel sometime. Time went by at least for me trying to search and download freeware gauges to complete a Frankenstein overhead panel, but I failed with this.Then it occur to me that why not to finish at least the overhead panel and I started playing with XML.I post here in the forum, to see if someone will like to help into this quest. And you can see "My XML for the 737-200" with all of you guys helping me to figure it out. Thank you Scott, Jan and Tom for answering and sharing your knowledge with me.But about two weeks ago I recieved a mail from Bob Scott who told me he was interested in helping to finish the overhead panel.This was great due to my poor programming skills. I hardly accomplished the hydraulics panel and the windows deice panel that worked "well". I was trying to figure out the generator panel and the pneumatics when Bob came in.Here are some last updates.Bob managed to fix the fueling panel that no matter what configuration a fuel imbalance was occuring during flight and you can't cross feed to correct this imbalance. Often I had to go to the fueling options in the middle of the flight to balance the fuel tanks again.Now thanks to Bob there is a full working fuel panel, working bus logic for 13 of the electrical buses, full working CSD,and a fully working electrical meter panel. There is still work going on to connect the components to the proper electrical sources.Great job so far Bob!I have been doing the artwork of the gauges to have a visual that will honor Bob's programming and of course Richard Probst.This bitmaps were modeled and rendered in a 3d application to get the best quality.Here are some snaphots of the finals for the generator and hydraulics panel.http://www.elaviador.com.mx/737-200/websho...ellightsoff.jpgThe bright lights of the generators panel.http://www.elaviador.com.mx/737-200/websho...nellightson.jpgThe night version of the generators panel in 3d perspective.http://www.elaviador.com.mx/737-200/websho...ctric-night.jpgThe final bitmap for the overhead in the 2d cockpit.http://www.elaviador.com.mx/737-200/webshots/hyd1.jpghttp://www.elaviador.com.mx/737-200/webshots/hyd2.jpgA perspective shot of the hydraulics panel model.http://www.elaviador.com.mx/737-200/webshots/hyd3.jpgNight lighting for the hydraulics at night.http://www.elaviador.com.mx/737-200/webshots/hydnight.jpgStarting to arrange the layout for the generators and hydraulics panel.http://www.elaviador.com.mx/737-200/webshots/elechyd.jpgNow the workflow of Bob is next to finish the hydraulics and then he is going to the pneumatics.This panel will be an update to the original Richard Probst's panel and will be freeware as soon as we finish it.I want to thank all of the community that has gave us a lot.It is time to payback.SincerelyEmilio

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Good news! As always, I'll be glad to answer any questions that I can. I've still been reading these forums at least twice a day but haven't been actively posting because I'm up to my eyeballs in learning to make my own models.Scott / Vorlin

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Great Emilio.But I must recomend to do more work in the rest of the panel, like the AP logic for the CWS (guess that I

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Omykron, it would be great to have the EPR formula for those 17's.Also if you have EGT formula also will be great. These also needs to be corrected.Thanks for your help.

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Here's a few I found on my test flight today:1.) No temp gauge anywhere (needed for perforamnce calcs.)2.)No main panel night lighting. Had to do a manual keypress...3.) It woudl be nice to expand the performance computer..4.) It seeems IAS and MACH number are somewhat off... may just be me....5.) Stab out of trim light intermittently on most of the flight. Not sure if this is actually how it goes...6.) Fuel Flow seems kind of high... Not sure on this one either though...7.) Radio click areas arranged haphazardly...8.) Not panel related, but, anyway: Missing engine textures (a patch around engine and wing connection area...)regards,Macs :)

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>6.) Fuel Flow seems kind of high... Not sure on this one either though...for cruise, FL310, AGW about 110,000lbs, each engine burns 2900lbs/hjt8d drinks faster than me :D

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I need more information about the CWS issue.The N1-EPR relationship for the JT8D is well documented, thanks to the work of Ron Freimuth, Ian K, and Greg Abbey. I plan to look at this as soon as I finish the pneumatic and pressurization systems programming.EGT is easy to fix in the gauge programming.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

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>I need more information about the CWS issue.>the CWS in roll mode only, have a great problem to hold a bank angle (maximum CWS bank = 32 degrees) and is need a lot of little inputs to bank, but is needed to input a lot of commands to keep the angle.>The N1-EPR relationship for the JT8D is well documented,>thanks to the work of Ron Freimuth, Ian K, and Greg Abbey. I>plan to look at this as soon as I finish the pneumatic and>pressurization systems programming.>not only for the JT8D, but for all engines if there is a chart of EPRxN1regardsgustavo

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Gustavo; Have you done a curve-fit on the N1 vs EGT plot? If so, that would be useful for writing some updated gauge internals.CheersBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

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>>I need more information about the CWS issue.>>>the CWS in roll mode only, have a great problem to hold a bank>angle (maximum CWS bank = 32 degrees) and is need a lot of>little inputs to bank, but is needed to input a lot of>commands to keep the angle.OK, will put that on the list of things to look at. I did some preliminary looking at the CWS code and have a few ideas about what may be happening.>>The N1-EPR relationship for the JT8D is well documented,>>thanks to the work of Ron Freimuth, Ian K, and Greg Abbey. >I>>plan to look at this as soon as I finish the pneumatic and>>pressurization systems programming.>>>not only for the JT8D, but for all engines if there is a chart>of EPRxN1Yes, but it's the pesky CN1 vs EPR function that doesn't necessarily translate directly from the available published data. The gang of three has done a good job of defining it for the JT8D.CheersBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

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Actually, where I'm living, I cannot make the table in the excel to creat a formula.... just because I don't have the time and the programm.but I have in my virtual hd the .xls and the image of EPRxN1/N2/EGT.guess that this can be helpfull.

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>Here's a few I found on my test flight today:>1.) No temp gauge anywhere (needed for perforamnce calcs.)It's on the temp page of the pdcs>2.)No main panel night lighting. Had to do a manual >keypress...On the center pedestal>3.) It woudl be nice to expand the performance computer..>4.) It seeems IAS and MACH number are somewhat off... may just>be me....Data coming straight out of FS...looks OK>5.) Stab out of trim light intermittently on most of the>flight. Not sure if this is actually how it goes...Real behavior>6.) Fuel Flow seems kind of high... Not sure on this one>either though...TBD>7.) Radio click areas arranged haphazardly...Working this one>8.) Not panel related, but, anyway: Missing engine textures (a>patch around engine and wing connection area...)Yeah, wish I could find a fix for that.>regards,>Macs :)

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The systems modelling to advance the Richard Probst et al TinMouse B737-200 is going well. We're close to looking for some help with beta testing.If anyone knows where to find a decent bitmap of the air conditioning panel, we're still missing that. And some work is still needed to convert the bitmaps for night lighting. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-2/1151...eIIOverhead.jpgHere's a list of what's done now:0. Integration of FSUIPC (freeware version)1. Fuel panel - proper feed and crossfeed behavior, and appropriate power sources for all the boost pumps. Also added feature to simulate asymmetric feeding from center tank when climbing with less than 2000 lbs in the center tank.2. CWS roll mode now works smoothly (using FSUIPC).3. CIVA Litton INS integration with CDI indications and leg distance on HSI.4. Electrical system - nearly all of the electrical busses and their interdependencies are simulated, including simulation of AC load/DC current. Clicking on gnd power available while on the ground with parking brake set makes a request for gnd power connect/disconnect, which occurs after ~30 sec.5. Engine instruments sourced to proper electrical bus and failure mode. AC instruments freeze, DC ones go to 0 when depowered.6. Hydraulic systems now modelled and tied to proper sources.7. Flight control shutoffs modelled to various degrees. Still working on alt flaps and alternate gear extension. Manual reversion flight control simulated with loss of all hydraulic sources.8. Pneumatic system simulated, with duct pressures modelled to respond to source/load configuration, including effects of engine RPM on bleed pressure.9. Pressurization controller modelled in auto, standby, and manual modes. Still some work in progress here.10. Anti/de-icing panels modelled.11. Wing/engine anti-ice modelled to include all the various valves in the system.12. Door panel modeled with clickspot over fwd entry light that will open the main door.In keeping with the original TinMouse project, the plan is for incremental releases as improvements are made. CheersBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

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Awesome!Bob, I'd forgot to reply beforehand on some of the isues I had found earlier. You mentioned the cockpit lights could be actuated from the center pedestal, but in my panel, they only light the center pedestal itself and not the whole panel. I have not been able to get an acceptable panel layout since I don't have any decent bitmaps. I may be able to do something with another photoeditor though..regards,Macs :)

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>Gustavo;>> Have you done a curve-fit on the N1 vs EGT plot? If so,>that would be useful for writing some updated gauge>internals.Bob, If you send me the data, I can do that for you.regards,Macs :)

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Gustavo, Here is a compilation of the linear approcsimations of EPR vs. N1, N2 and EGT from the tables that you provided. I am not sure if this is what you are looking for , but I have typed your table in Eccel, so I can provide any format you need. I would dare to predict that FS uses linear approcsimations :)http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/148953.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/148954.jpgregards,Macs :)

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Hi,Actually, FS internally plots "SAT normalized" engine data, called "Corrected Nx" (CN1,CN2) as to avoid changes in readings because of pressure/temperature differences (TAT).So a single plot of EPR/N1/N2 can be done by converting nominal (instrument) readings to its Corrected version.For example:EPR ref: 2.15TAT -40C N1= 87.1 N2= 84.9 CN1=96.84 CN2=94.39TAT 10C N1=96 N2= 93.6 CN1=96.84 CN2=94.39TAT 15C N1=CN1= 96.84 N2=CN2= 94.39Then you can plot EPR=2.15 = CN1= 96.84 = CN2= 94.39 and so on for each file in the table.As FS handles CN1 and CN2, I think you should make EPR the Y value for the calcs.Just my two cents :-)Tom

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Hi Tom,I already made a formula to fits the EPR due CN1 for the jt8d-17.also, I had remade the 1502 from my airfile 1.5 (beta) to fit with the values from table....but I guess that need more work to fits 99.99..%I can post here the formula only to the -17... is a polinomial formula with R^2 of 0.99 (I guess that this is good enought...)regards,Gustavo

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Tom, I am not doing the modeling for this project, but am only providing the formatted data. Nevertheless, I would like to learn about it. I can do an EPR as the dependent variable correlation, but am not sure how you arrived to the corrected N values. Juat curious,Thanks,Regards,Macs :)

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>but am not sure how you arrived to the corrected>N values. Juat curious,Convert Nx to CNx:CNx = Nx/Sqrt((TAT

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I recall Ron Freimuth did a fit of EPR vs CN1 for a 727 engine, also a JT8D if I'm right. I for one did a plot of EPR vs CN2 for a RB211 535E4 engine, the one used in 757s. Ron and I discussed the different advantadges/disadvantages of using either of the spools (LP or CN1/HP or CN2). After a couple of months doing tests, I opted for the CN2 variable, which in fact was a bit more complex to plot, because I needed to know the proper EPR for a given throttle position (RB211 Commanded EPR gauge) and throttle is linked to CN2 (tables 1503 and 1504). Tom

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