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rhumbaflappy

Ground2k4 roads problem

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Hello,I've been progressing very very well with my Lancashire project. But I'm now getting a problem with instant crashes to desktop. My last known good configuration of this scenery was on sunday and since that time I've just added more roads to the last corner of my project.Well since then, I couldn't load the scenery, fs2004 crashed instantly when it got to 43% whilst loading terrain. So I progressively deleted scenery files from my project folder. I tried deleting landclass, no effect. I deleted the exclude file, no effect. I then deleted the a file called lancs_9.bgl - the one containing all the lines scenery. Bingo! I got to load fs2004.So with the problem isolated to the lines drawn, I progressively deleted the roads I added and reloaded fs2004 after copying the scenery over again. Sometimes the scenery would load successfully, but then it would crash unexpectedly. Subsequent attempts would see the sim failing to load at 43%. It was only when I re-copied the scenery across to the folder in fs2004 that the sim would load again, but it would crash all over again within 4-5minutes from startup.I finally deleted all the roads that I added since Sunday, my last good stable product. Arggghh! Still problems. The sim still crashes.Has anyone else had this problem before? If so, what solutions are there for it. The LVM file is 140kb zipped, but the administrator has set a max file size of 125kb. If anyone wants to analyse it, send me an email (in my profile details) and I'll email it as a zipped attachment.

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Exactly: Bingo!That's the same problem as I had had today and I also work with many VTP2 lines. So I would also be very interested in a sollution. :)Sasa

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>Exactly: Bingo!>That's the same problem as I had had today and I also work>with many VTP2 lines. So I would also be very interested in a>sollution. :)I never had a problem with compilation problems or errors, but one thing I noticed was that if I cut back on the roads, the crashes would take longer to happen. Also, some roads wouldn't appear. To me, it could be a compilation error - the manual does say:"Important : all the possibilities have not been tested; more, you can face difficulties due the fact we don

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Perhaps the #9 BGL is calling for a texture that does not exist. Not sure where Ground2k finds the textures for roads...Dick Boley KLBE

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Ussually these crashes mean that you are missing a texture (or something is really wrong with the source code, but I expect that Ground2k makes good code :)). I don't know how you made your roads, did you use a default texture? If you have a custom texture also make sure it is DXT and has mipmaps, otherwise you can also get crashes.

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Hi Arno,I have the same problem but I didn't use any default textures. It seems that most crashes happen if I get close to many railroads or to a point where the railroads get close to the cell border. But I am sure about it because I also have created hundreds of roads.Sasa

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Send me your .LWM file; your problem is very interesting !c.fumey@laposte.netChristian

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Hi Christian,Thanks for the offer. But one thing more: Do you also need the BMP file? Mine has 15 MB (packed!).Sasa

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>>I don't know how you made your roads, did you use a default texture?My roads are VTP2 lines, in Ground2k4 (Version 5.1) I'm using the following roads:1163 - Two Lanes undivided Meridian1143 - Four Lanes divided Meridian1147 - Six Lanes divided Meridian1159 - One Lane undivided MeridianI can't see any lines that use custom textures in the list.>>but I expect that Ground2k makes good code :)).I'm not so sure. 1. Last night I recompiled the scenery and copiied it over. It worked fine - flying around for 15minutes before getting bored.2. Tonight I recompiled it again without alterations. Again, fine in fs2004.3. I added 3 more roads, recompiled and then loaded fs2004. This time it crashed repeatedly on loading either at 43% Terrain or 60% Terrain.4. I removed the exact 3 roads I added in step 3, recompiled and loaded fs2004. In theory this scenery should be identical to that in steps 1 and 2. But the scenery crashed at 60% Terrain on loading.5. Without making alterations, I recompiled the scenery and reloaded fs2004. This time I got in and flew - but then fs2004 crashed after about 4 minutes.I've emailed dick (rhumbaflappy) and christian the LWM file from last night, hopefully they'll be able to pick out the problem.Anthony

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Hi Anthony.I'll play with the files a bit tonight ( I hope ). One problem I noted was the name of your exclude file.I changed "lancs-exclude.bgl" to "aaEx_lancs.bgl". Your files are named like "lancs_5.bgl", and the exclude could actually exclude the very things you have drawn! The draw order of BGLs within the same scenery folder is alpha-numeric... so the excludes were being made after your scenery was drawn. You want to name the exclude so it is executed first in the folder.I have compiled the scenery, and flown for a bit ( maybe 15 minutes with another 10 at dusk ). So far so good. LWMViewer shows the scenery just fine.If I load the landclassfile into TMFViewer, and then the lanc_9.bgl, theree is a crash of TMFViewer! So the search may start there.Dick

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This is interesting. How many roads do you have in your file then? If there are more then a certain amount of objects (can remember the number now) the list of them should be split.

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Hi Arno,As far is I know the limit was somthing like 280 roads per BGL. I think that I have a lot more but how is it possible to count them if not manually?Sasa

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From our NL2000 test we came up with problems when we had more then 127 VTP polygons or roads if I remember correct. So if you have much more already, I doubt it is the same problem.All the roads you talk about use the same texture?

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>This is interesting. How many roads do you have in your file>then? If there are more then a certain amount of objects (can>remember the number now) the list of them should be split.I think I have solved the problem. 1. I deleted a certain number of roads, recompiled and then ran fs2004. FS2004 loaded and ran fine without problem but then this wasn't concrete evidence.2. I opened the Landclass bgl, then the lines bgl file in tmfviewer. Now tmfviewer used to crash with every problem bgl file, but this time it was fine.3. I progressively added more roads, compiling and running tmfviewer after every few lines added. It worked up until my last good road configuration on Sunday evening.4. Then I added one more line, I ran tmfviewer, it crashed. I opened fs2004, it crashed. Bingo!5. So I deleted that road and ran tmfviewer again, it ran fine. But hold on, what if it was a one off crash? So I added another random line, ran tmfviewer and hey presto it crashed again. So I deleted the line and both tmfviewer and fs2004 ran fine.To Cristian and Dick (Rhumbaflappy), I've emailed you both the solved LWM file, if you compile and run it, all should be fine. Add one line, recompile and then open in tmfviewer - it should crash.So, the solution, I'll need to create a new LWM project to create a new lines bgl file. I don't know how many lines I've got in my file, I don't know any tools to count them, but there are certainly lots of them.All's well!Anthony Dyer

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Hi Anthony.I think the number of lines is in line 100 of the LWM... and the fixed file reads 471.However that is not the number of VTP lines, but of the LWM pseudocode number of lines.This might need some looking into.Dick

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I can confirm that reducing the number of lines in the BGL seems to be the key... and TMFViewer seems to be a good indicator of what will work.I did try changing layer numbers for some of the lines, but didn't seems to help. It very much seems it's the total number of lines, and that is around 470 or less... at least for your scenery.I think Christian had been toying with the idea of adding a 'join' function to Ground2K4. That would help to allow us to reduce the number of lines without loosing them.It is possible that the terrain engine has a buffer for the number of VTP2 lines and polys in each BGL. Exceeding 450 polys and lines might require a new BGL as a design principle.I also don't know if the number of points would be the problem, but for now, the number of lines seems the key.Good find, Anthony!

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Hello all,the problem is fixed, it occurs when we have lines in several LOD8.Easy to modify, hard to find (about 5 hours) because of the number of the lines in the .LWM file given for test.Sorry for the troubles.The test runs fine in FS9 until it crashes !May be to link to the your problem when reaching a LOD8 (or LOD5) border.Test to be continued.I will post a new relase as soon as possible but I have done a lot of internal modifications and I want to be sure to deliver a robust code.Thanks again to people who answer so quickly about Ground2K difficulties.Christian

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Hmm!!!In fact I have corrected a new bug introduced in my modifications !!!Christian

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Crash with VTP2 lines :It seems that the reason is the number of lines per layer/texture : 127 maximum.I have test a lot, it's difficult to reproduce the crash.In Ground2K4, I was aware of this limitation, but created groups of 127 lines.One solution for thr moment: change the layer of some lines.Ground2K4 will display a message when reaching 127 lines for a given layer/texture.It could be other limitations, for example, the number of the points.Christian

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Good news.The general structure for VTP2 lines is similar to VTP2 polys.In other words, each group of 127 lines must be associated to a texture, and VTPNumTexturesInLayer must be the number of VtpTextureID statements.Sascha : I see Hamburg, but the frame rate at home is low (8).Christian

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Hi Christian.You may be right about needing to state that the VTPNumTexturesInLayer must be the number of VtpTextureID.The same texture can be reused as a new ID number, and that allows more than 127 of the same texture. ( I thik the number might be 128... 0-127 inclusive ).The VTPNumTexturesInLayer structure has a reserved bit that may allow more than 128 textures ( 0-127 ), and the VTPTextureID structure also has a reserved bit, that may allow more textures.My guess on these structures would be that the extended format would be an added BYTE that would contain the "multiple" of 128 added.This is speculation.==================================All this might be avoided if each line had it's own VTPDataArea structure ( and each line would then have it's own zone numbers ). This would increase the size of the code and the BGL, but it should be stable.Dick

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