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KennyG

FSD Commander - am I the only one?

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While I've followed the controversy on critiquing freeware and I won't go there. I will, however, critique a payware plane I bought from FSD because I think if I had read this prior to buying it, I probably wouldn't have. I bought the commander this weekend, largely because the Cheyenne by the same company is so good - not perfect but close. The Commander seems a bit half-baked to me. The avionics look cool but the VC is horrible. I have the IR Tracker, so VCs have taken on new meaning to me. The propeller is offcenter ( a lot!) and it is just one ugly plane. The sounds are about the worst I've heard, except maybe a few that didn't come with any. This is especially true at cruise. I can't comment on the flight dynamics much other than to say it just doesn't feel right, but it might just need more experience. I downloaded the current version, which is supposed to incorporate a patch which included changes to make it more frame-rate friendly. I have a high-end system and I find this plane drags it down more than any other (including the DF planes), and for what purpose? It doesn't even look that good. IMO, don't get this plane expecting the Cheyenne because you will be disappointed. The good news is, the Cheyenne is probably a better indicator of what is to come and I look forward to FSD's next accomplishments.David

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DavidI am waiting to see how good their Seneca five is as that will determine whether we build one (no point competing for the same bit of sky)I would imagine their Commander is nearing the end of its commercial life as its been ruunning for some time.Many adore it(recent poll) and it would be interesting to know if others have the same findings (nothing wroung in posting your findings if they are specific and well thought out) Commercial or freeware ;-)bestPeter

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Peter,Thanks for the reply. Why don't you guys do a B1900? It's such a common commuter and nobody has touched it - at least recently. It's about the only commercial plane we get at our airport so I'd love to see it. The only serious rendition of a plane like this was Dragon's Shorts 360 for FS2K. Up to that point I was pretty sure I could climb into any prop and at least get it started. He showed me (and others, I expect) how wrong I was!David

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I whole heartedly AGREE with all you said! I HATE THE SOUND THE MOST! I can't figure out myself WHY it sounds that way? I like the Cheyenne which I fly ocassionally although my latest love is THE PSS AIRBUS!!!!I HIGHLY RECOMMEND ****EVERYONE**** GET THE PSS AIRBUS!! I spent ALL weekend learning the MCDU and let me tell you, when you get the hang of it, it is one AWESOME bird ALL AROUND! VERY COMPLETE AC (EXCLUDING FS2K2 Limitations) including Dynamics, Graphics, Functionality, things working & not working. DEFINITELY WORTH IT! I guess there is still a FINAL patch coming out as well soon. For me, I can't get enough!Also add a livery or 2 for even more realism. I have a PPL for the last 10 yrs and have mostly used the 172 in VC on FS2K2 but I am now a GLASS JUNKIE! :) I WANT AN A340 NOW!! ;)Carmine "The Big Ragu" :-cool

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My experiences are just the opposite. The Cheyenne drags my 1GHz system down a little bit but the Commander runs flawlessly. I also think that the VC is very good with the latest update.As you can see by my signature I may be a little biased :-) but I am also pretty critical.Wish I knew how to help you. I just don't experience the same things. Anyone else?

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Phil,Perhaps the version I downloaded hasn't been updated with the patch. I assumed so because the patch said for files downloaded some time ago, but I'm willing to try and apply the patch. I can't see how you would miss the offcenter prop because it is not subtle (I'm not usually too picky about that stuff). As for performance, I run 3 monitors which might explain the discrepancy. Maybe having the avionics on a second monitor brings it to its knees.DavidP4 2.0Ghz, 512 DDR, GEForce Ti4600

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I love the Commander in every respect but one - the sounds, particularly at maximum revs. I assume the (real) Commander is marketed as a performance aircraft. If that's so, you would expect the engine sounds to reflect that; I was expecting a deep, resonant whine, like a fast expensive car, rather than a two-stroke Eastern-bloc 150cc motorcycle, circa 1978. But then what would I know, having never been anywhere near a real Commander?Apart from that, I can't fault it. The VC is great.I totally agree about the PSS Airbus. I've had it about 72 hours now, and am getting the hang of it. It flies the best approaches imaginable, and is just great at pretty much everything. It's easily taken top spot in my list of favourites. And speaking of sounds, it has the best sound effects I've ever heard in FS. Highly recommended.

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I own all three of FSD aircraft (Commander, Cub and Cherokee) and I love them all, particularly the commander, this one is my favorite. I will buy any aircraft they make. Carlos

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I have to agree on your Commander VC comments. I was very curious why raising the the wheels into the up position caused the plane's nose to drop. Never had a good answer but Geoff said that his real-life Commander did the same thing so I accept the strange behavior. The virtual panel (I assume that is a VC in shorthand) is not very good, especially the top leather trim. I bought the Dreamfleet Archer and the virtual panel is much better. I have the patch and could see little difference visually. Since I cannot come up with $350,000 right now I can only say that when I pay for an aircraft I expect, no demand, that the performance and the sounds are true to life. I have no idea how one of these things actually flies or what it sounds like. I spent my money and assume what I purchased to be CORRECT.DickA PS: Speaking of thin skins of contributors. The forum of FSD is very sensitive.

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DavidFSD Commander - am I the only one."No David your not! There are most certainly two or three other people out there who dont like the Commander. But as for the rest of us "We Love it"Dcharles

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David,I agree with you 100% on the Cheyenne and I think you make some good points on the Commander, although I like it overall. It's the only "high tech" single available with a graphical GPS built into both the 2d and 3d panels (this by the way could be what causes the frame rate hit), and it is FAST!I decided 5 minutes after I fired it up that the Sound was not only BAD, it was simply intolerable. I ussually fly with headphones on so that I can use Game Voice, so I am VERY sensitive to sound, good and bad. My solution was to download a modified Mooney sound set which sounds great! I have no idea if this is accurate in any way, but I figure the planes have similar performance and it solved the poblem.Vonat

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Well, it seems that several have chimed in about not liking the sounds. However, I've yet to hear from ANYONE that has been in or around a 115TC that can tell us if the FSD sounds are correct. Until I hear otherwise, I'll have to accept FSD's version as being correct. I agree that the sound when MP is above 30" Hg is a bit grating, but that may in fact be what it sounds like in the cockpit without headphones on and at high MP.All I know is what a 114 I saw a couple months ago sounded like as it was landing and taxiing to the ramp. I don't know if it was turbocharged or not, nor did I hear it rev its engines. So I cannot comment on the high-rev sounds.As far as the VC, if you get the latest patch, it is quite good.The flight dynamics, as I've been told by those with some experience with very similar planes, is very well done. Also, the person responsible for those flight dynamics is Steve Small. I've yet to encounter ANY air file by him that isn't impeccably close to reality.In the end, I'm very happy with my FSD purchases (115TC and Cheyenne). For those who do not like the sounds (regardless if they are realistic), I would suggest switching them out for some that you prefer.

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I think Ken hit most of the nails right on the head, but also, I think that one of the points about the prop being off center in the vc. A lot of that depends on where you are in the VC. If you arent happy with it, then move to the left or right until it is aligned accordingly.Personally, I think the Commander 115TC is incredible, it has the best gauge clairity out there, and is #2 with background textures (with the DF Archer II coming in a tight 1st). The fact is though, this is almost all opinion, so if you don't like it, then thats your opinion.Scott

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David,I run a couple of monitors with fsnav and the avionics on the second one and have absolutely no performance problem with the commander (patched). On the contrary I'm a bit frustrated with the Cheyenne, but that's probably because I haven't gotten to know that well yet.Regards,Krister

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Hey, count me in. I love every aircraft that FSD has put out. I think most will agree that I am critical when it comes to FSD. That's how I got my nick name (from Sonar5 I think). The Commander is an excellent plane (patched) as far as flight model and general functionality. I must agree that the sound is not there yet. Maybe FSD will patch that as well. David, be sure to patch it though, several issues were corrected and improved since the first version of the Commander. All FSD planes run well on my system and I only have a G-force 3 Ti200. The Cheyenne also works well and does not drag my system in the slightest. I think that FSD is getting a bad rap here. Excellent planes, I fly 'em all the time.My two cents.

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I'm one of those people that loves the FSD Commander overall except for the engine sounds. There's got to be a better sound set in the file library that could be used instead. Does anyone have any ideas? David

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Are you sure you're using the latest patch? The original 115 had a good, but somewhat sub-par VC...but the new one is quite stunning. Maybe we judge a book by different standards, but I'm pretty nit-picky about payware and I'm quite pleased with my Commander purchase.J

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I for one, really have enjoyed the commander. Hadnt hada problem with the sounds...but of course now will bepaying attention! I also love the Caranado C152 and Bonanzaas well as my DF Archer II.Those are my current planes I fly when doing general aviationstuff. Eric

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Could it be that you forgot that you're situated to the left of the propellor, so if you see it off center that's exactly as it should be.Many models put the pilot exactly on the aircraft centerline, so people expect that and may think a model that put them in the true pilot position is wrong somehow.I don't like the VC either, but that's not because of the Commander but because I don't like VCs in general. I hardly ever look at them so I can't comment on it.Flight dynamics seem good, sound is a bit loud sometimes but as I've never been in a real one I can't tell how accurate that is.

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David,Opinions are like you-know-what... everyone has one. I'm not sure if the engine sounds are correct or not. However, we've been using noise-canceling headphones in our company owned plane for several years. (A-36 Bonanza) They work quite well on covering engine noise. You always have the option of turning off the engine sound and other environmental sounds and still be realistic. You may want to consider doing that and telling yourself you just spent 500.00 on a new headphone and are getting your monies worth out of those!!! You may get some frame rate increase out of the deal as well, one can hope!Keep flying!Dale Baker

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Scott,I tried what you recommended about moving left or right and found that it is indeed centered when you are sitting in the jumpseat view (in the center) but that the prop moves left or right as you move left or right. I'd say it is a bug - somehow it's not "fixed" in its position relative to the cowl. I don't know anything about creating VCs but I wonder if this was just a simple oversight and thus an easy fix.I did download the patch and installed it. The panel is clearer now but it still stutters more than most planes on my system - no idea why I seem to have more difficulty than most, if not all. Obviously many of you love this plane but there does seem to be a valid complaint about the sounds. Thanks!David

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Jeroen,I posted this above before I read your reply but I think it bears repeating. I have a good appreciation for perspective and parallax (although I'm not sure I can spell the latter! ;-))> Try moving left in the cockpit and tell me the propeller doesn't shift almost off the plane. Maybe it's an optical illusion because of the shape of the cowl - I'm not sure.David

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After a lot of slewing around the VC, I'm willing to admit that the prop is actually centered. The offcenter appearance may be more of an optical illusion caused by the cowling than anything else. Somehow the effect still seems exagerated - like the cowl is longer than it is supposed to be but I con't put my finger on it. I lowered my point of vision (I'm short anyway) so the cowl isn't visible and everything looks better. As for the rest of the VC, I installed the patch and I admit it is now much cleared. In fact, I would go so far as to say it may be the clearest one to date. It would appear that the download file on the site doesn't include the changes in the patch, despite what the instructions say. It still causes more stuttering than other panels for me but it's liveable. Unfortunately, I still can't think of anything good to say about the sounds!David

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Hi David,Thanks for finally realizing what we had suspected. The fact that you didn't have a patch. I would suggest in the future doing proper research prior to hitting the post button.It is well known that this plane was originally created for MSFS2000 and not in GMAX. FSD Did a FREE update to FS2002 and a VC update. as a matter of fact on the website it cleary states that there was a service release available which said:"Service Release for aircraft purchased prior to April 11, 2002"Are you stating that the updated VC was not included in the install file and you purchased it After April 11?I bought it anyway after asking a ton of questions and I think you might consider an apolgy to the good folks at FSD. They also have a forum available at FSD, and you could have voiced your concerns and probably gotten a quicker road to reality if you did.I would like to know what is the perfect airplane out there as I have yet to discover one. I would also be curious as to your definition a perfect plane.Regards,Joe :-wavehttp://home.attbi.com/~jranos/mysig.jpg http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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