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arno

FS2004 object library and finding the right object ?

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It seems everyone skirts around this issue. Most of the answers revolve around designing your own objects for placement. There have been some attempts to provide pictures of some of the default objects that come with FS2004. I would prefer when possible to use the already existing objects in FS2004.The problem seems to be relating the object in the SDK to what it is ? I have a particular hanger at KSEA that I want to use at another airport but how do you find it and relate it. If I know the ID number I can place it.I think we all would like to minimize the new designs we need to make and use the existing ones in FS2004 but how do you find the right ones. Which BGL are they in ? That is a lot of searching.Isn't there a program yet that can be used when you are at a particular airport where you can point at the object and get its ID number ? Is there a program out there that can load up all the objects based on Latitude and Logitude and give you a list ? Then from the list you still have to find which one is the hanger. I'm sure you get what I mean. It's a delema. How do we do this ???RegardsJib01/02 :)

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The hanger you want is probably in one of the Objects BGL in NAMW (North America West)folder in the FS9 scenery file. The BGL name will probably start with OB. You can decompile those BGLs with BGLXML to a XML file, which you can read with notepad. Use the find function in Notepad to check the locations of the models by copying the GUID number of the model into Find. It is relatively time consuming, but when you locate the model you want, you can place it into a library, and reuse it anywhere you like. Perhaps even make a small jpeg of the model, and use it for RWY12 object placer....then you can share it with the rest of us.Some of the hangers are not models, but Generic Buildings. For these, just copy the XML code out of the default BGL you decompiled and paste it into your XML for the new location. On Generic Buildings if you alter the size of the building, you will have to adjust the texture. Generic Buildings appear to be limited to using the texture sheets that came with FS9. If you want custom textures, you are back to having to build a GMAX model.

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archtx,I seem to remember there was a cross reference for the FS9 BGL files. AB was and OB was, etc. I'll go look in the BGLCOMP sdk, maybe it's there. I did this stuff about 5 months ago on my other computer up in Idaho but now I am Arizona and don't have all my utilities. If there is another reference let me know.ThanksJib01/02 :)P.S. I know you can do it your way but there must be an easier way to search.

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I'm not sure why you think anyone "skirts" any scenery issue.There have been several utilities made which place default scenery objects.And it has been well documented that many objects in the FS series are location-dependant, and cannot be used elswhere in the world... unless you resort to extracting their MDL and recompiling it at a new location. And that's fine, as long as you don't distribute that new BGL ( using someone else's MDL ), because your decompilation and redistribution would have violated the EULAs and/or copyrights of both the Microsoft designer and the decompiler author.The bottom line is that it's truly less complicated to make a new MDL with gmax or an FS2002 BGL/API with another design program. The learning curve of these design programs is usually only a few days, at least for simple objects like hangars. Once you learn that skill, then you need not depend on other's creations to populate your airports. Some designers actually find pleasure in studying and visiting their favorite airfields, and using blueprints or photos to make accurate representations of the buildings, and locate them realistically.Dick

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I have that one but it is very limited. It doesn't even have hangers per se. Any other object libraries around ? Even Rwy12 is limited since those are newly designed Gmax items.RegardsJib01/02 :)

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There have been a number of catalogues of default objects and also of programs that can be used to place them.Vladimir Svoboda's MakeXML (makexml.zip), for example, contains an illustrated list of the objects.Seev Kahn and Israel Roth's Rwy 12 Object Placer will not only display the objects, but place them, in addition to the third-party objects.API Macros for FS2004 Autogen Objects by our very own Arno Gerretsen is another option,.As is Roberto Furlan's autogenmacros2k4.zip, that completes Arno's collection.In fact, this matter has been pretty much resolved, if not beaten to death, already.Seek and ye shall find.Best regards.Luis

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>>There have been a number of catalogues of default objects and>also of programs that can be used to place them.>>Vladimir Svoboda's MakeXML (makexml.zip), for example,>contains an illustrated list of the objects.>This set of objects is very limited and maybe 1/10 of all theFS2004 objects.>Seev Kahn and Israel Roth's Rwy 12 Object Placer will not only>display the objects, but place them, in addition to the>third-party objects.>As I stated above this is an excellent program but it doesnot use FS2004 standard objects, only new Gmax objects.>API Macros for FS2004 Autogen Objects by our very own Arno>Gerretsen is another option,.>Does this program take advantage of all the FS2004 objects defined in the SDK ?>As is Roberto Furlan's autogenmacros2k4.zip, that completes>Arno's collection.>>In fact, this matter has been pretty much resolved, if not>beaten to death, already.>>Seek and ye shall find.>So what I can surmise from this is that you are telling me that 9/10 of all of FS2004 objects used in the simulator are associated with a complete FS2004 airport and can not be used anywhere else in FS2004. I have difficulty in believing that.The SDK shows a huge number of objects that I have not seen made available in any addon program thus far.>Best regards.>>Luis>I really appreciate this dialog. I am just trying to find out the limitations we all seem to be living under. My understanding is if there is an ID number associated with a model and the textures are available for that model and are pointed to, you should be able to draw that model and its textures. Now I have heard that if you try to change the scale of the model in the XML file that the Textures will not fit and I can understand that.Thanks to all of you who are trying to help me. Either we can access all the objects in FS2004 or we can't, so what are the limitations ?Best RegardsJib01/02 :)

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Hi Jib.The SDK is wrong. That was found within minutes of it's release, and documented in this forum. Many of the objects listed are not within FS9, but instead are a list of all the objects ever made for the FS series, and CFS1, and CFS2. Luis explained where you might find a list and pictures, of what's actually available. It's not a bad thing to bring this up again, as new designers may not have read those older posts.All the object placing programs, of which I am aware, make use these available default objects that are within the Library BGLs included in FS9. Basically, they allow you to place any GUID.Hidden among the non-library BGLs are objects that are location-specific, like the Pyramids. Are 9/10ths of the objects locked geographically? I don't know, but quite a few are locked. You can use them if you decompile the default BGLs to obtain the MDLs, then make new XML/BGLComp code to compile them in new Libraries... but distribution of new BGLs derived from the original MDLs would be a possible violation of either EULA or copyrights. New MDLs could be made for the location-specific objects with gmax, and recycle the textures... which shouldn't violate anything. You can even use the default GUID number with the new unlocked models!Scaling has nothing to do with texturing... the textures are scaled with the objects.Dick

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Rhumbafloppy,Thanks. That clears things up for me at least.So my plan is to go to the scenery/namw and try and find the BGL that has the Hanger I want. Still not sure what the prefixes on those files mean. It was not in the SDK.I guess I have to decompile the BGL and then guess which one is the hanger by looking for the Lat/Long location and see if the ID is in the .xls file with the SDK.I'm using Rwy12 and understand how that works now so I will try and do something with that. I will assume that many people will add objects over time that can be used with Rwy12.Thanks all for the help....RegardsJib01/02 :)

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>Does this program take advantage of all the FS2004 objects>defined in the SDK ?No, it's not even a program :). It's just a collection of the objects listed in the default.xml file, so they can be placed with API macros.I must agree with Dick here. Finding an object of your interest in the XML code would probably take much more time then just building your own hangar. And I never found the default objects looking good enough for the airport I am working on, as I want them to be realistic for the airport.

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Just a final note; Winfried Orthmann put together a list of all the objects with GUIDs, object names, names of the bgls in which they can be found, and even the location of the object within the bgl - libraryobjects.zip.And Kevin Wynn did more or less the same thing - libobj2004.zip.Best regards.Luis

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Can I summarise, then? Mostly for my own benefit...Objects can come from three places;- Generic objects- GMax-style objects in libraries- GMax-style objects in sceneryGeneric objects are really a different question. Most of the other objects in FS are held in libraries; search for "Generic.bgl", "Landmark.bgl", "Vehicles.bgl" . These (I think :) can be used anywhere in the world.Other objects are held, for each area of the world, in "OB9*.BGL" in the corresponding folder on disk. However, these files contain almost nothing apart from airport *terminal* buildings (i.e. not hangars). Still others are held in individual scenery files, such as the pyramids.So you can use any object that happens to be in a loaded file. The main libraries are always loaded. The OB* files are loaded when you're in that part of the world. The models held in individual scenery files will only be loaded when you're nearby. That means you could relocate the pyramids north by a kilometer or two but you can't plonk them in downtown New York. (They'd get stolen).HTHJim Keir

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Hi Jim,Yes, that sounds like a good summary. Two notes.What do you mean with generic objects here? Do you mean the generic buildings that are used in the default scenery? In that case they are made with their own command, so I don't think it is a big problem. They are simply not library objects with a GUID assigned to them.And about the locking. You make an interest remark about the area being active. That is probably it, but when you place a library BGL in the folder I think you can use it anywhere in the world. So would there be a difference between the header of the BGL file depending on the XML code used (no objects placement or object placement)?

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Hi Arno, Jim, and all.Concerning the geo-locking:It seems the sim reads the BGL placement locations within any one BGL, and sets the bounds. So if you have placements that are quite far apart, the bounds should be much more tolerant than if the objects are placed close together.I thought I noted the default OB and city BGLs have extra code designated at the start of the BGL, that is unused in our placement BGLs. I think it looked like locational data. That leads me to believe that MS has it's own software, and it can place a bounds on the whole BGL. I haven't experimented with this.I also wonder if the bounds are cumulative for the BGLs within a single 'scenery' folder? If so, the geo-locking could be undone by making a BGL that places objects near the four corners of the earth. If true, that would NOT compromise a EULA or copyright... we'd just place a copy of this "dummy" BGL into each default folder, and unlock the whole works.Might be worth an experiment.It could allow the Pyramids to exist near Las Vegas... a sure-fire moneymaker.Dick

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