I can see it from ease of use, but it isn't obvious to me how the editor could be adapted to incorporate DEM data rather than hand-edits to create your hill.scott s..

Scott, that's no problem. The editor can import the terrain data in the form of a grey-scale bitmap. I have also imported real-world US coastline data using TerrasScene. However, I'm not seriously suggesting it would be suitable for large-scale scenery as you would expect in FS. It's more an illustration of how an FS editor could be. A major limitation of Far Cry is that the maps are fairly small, maybe ten kilometers across. That's because, probably like most similar games, all the scenery is loaded in one go. However, the successor to Far Cry, Crysis, should be out about the same time as FSX and it is based on the new CryEngine2. It is a huge advance on Far Cry and hopefully it will come with a new version of the editor. One major advance is that the engine can load new scenery as you proceed, just like FS. This should mean that enormous map areas will be possible, again just like FS. Also Crysis has a strong flight sim element. Unlike Far Cry, it has a number of flyable aircraft. Its true volumetric clouds look fantastic - you can see this in some demo videos. I'm looking forward to using the Crysis editor to create my very own flight simulator! Best regards, Chris

Yep I use FS Connect with G2k4 or more precisely I've it installed but don't use it much.Anyway, Sbuilder installation brings a cascade of error messages. I'm not alone if I read their forum right.

Ok. So it sounds like an autoasm on steroids!scott s..

This is indeed very impressive ! Thanks for the pics.Such an editor in FS would do marvels to remodel small areas. The point is that there never has been a public demand to MS. If there were one they would come to it.

<<....never has been a public demand to MS. If there were one they would come to it....>>It would surprise me. MS values the 3rd party existance, there is a synergy in the current system that serves MS very well, and has allowed a variety of private individuals to make amazing programs that are available to all of us.I don't see the Aces team viewing the effort to produce the addon tools as having much Return on Investment.Bob

>I don't see the Aces team viewing the effort to produce the>addon tools as having much Return on Investment. Sadly, I think you're right. To produce an equivalent editor would require a large investment of time and money that would probably not pay for itself, even if it were part of a Deluxe Edition. I'm sure the FS team have a suite of tools for scenery development but most likely they are not user-friendly and possibly DOS-based. It would require an enormous effort to produce an equivalent real-time 3D editor. Crytek took a different path when developing the CryEngine. They regarded the editor as an integral part of the engine. As a result they were able to use it to create all the retail game maps (they actually provide the source code for all levels on the DVD, so anyone can load them into the editor and see how the maps work). Because of this, the cost of providing the editor with the game was probably minimal. Also, having a powerful and user-friendly editor probably reduces their own game development costs, so for them the editor gives them a win-win situation. Hopefully this will continue with Far Cry's successor, Crysis, which should be out before the end of they year. I assume FSX is mostly an evolution of the existing game engine. But if Microsoft decide to build an entirely new engine the next time around then perhaps they could emulate Crytek and also build a powerful and modern integrated editor for creating the game world (scenery, aircraft and animated/AI objects). It could then be included on the DVD. If so it would be a win-win situation - for the FS team and for us! Best regards, Chris

Dunno :-) ...I'm no programmer but if some hobbyists around here are already making good stuff, alone and with just partial knwoledge from a SDK coming piece per piece what what would do a small professional team (dont they really call themselves the Aces team ?) with a knowledge of the innards of the game ?Evaluation of profitability is also evaluation of what people are willing to pay :-) Anyway wishful thinking it is, I agree.BTW anybody remember that Richard Harvey made a first try of including an in-game editor in Fly!2 ?

I'm quite sure people like you and I would be prepared to pay some extra for an integrated 3D editor - but would it be enough to be profitable? However, as I said, if Microsoft decide to build a brand-new engine then it's likely they would produce an advanced editor as part of the process, just like Crytek and many other games manufacturers. In that situation the editor would quickly pay for itself as it would make the team's design work much easier. For example, if the editor is powerful and user-friendly new members of the team could get up to speed a lot faster.Yes, I remember being impressed by Fly2's in-game editor. As I recall, while flying normally you could hit a key to enter edit mode, and then start adding new objects. When done you could return to normal mode and fly around your new scenery. It's a shame both Fly! and Flight Unlimited are no more as it means there's no real competition for FS. If there had been we'd probably see more innovation. But having said that, FSX looks like a big step forward despite the absence of competition. It may not be for the purists, but I think animated humans, animals and road traffic is a great idea! Best regards, Chris

I've been watching this thread with interest. As some of you may know I am one of those people who write scenery design software. I actually think there is a place for both. I think something like EZ-Scenery has been a great step forward for a lot of people who want to be able to work inside the sim and an in-FS editor would certainly be a big help.I also suspect that even if such a thing existed there would still be a demand for third party tools. The scenery engine and models are a hugely complex area in themselves and you only have to look at the number of excellent special purpose tools out there. Also we all work differently and what is great for one of us is not so great for another - hence the wide variety of tools all of which have a following from one part or another of our wide community.The worst possible thing that I could think of is MS providing and in Sim editor and no longer providing the SDKs! However good their tools were they are bound not to do exactly what we want the way we want to do it. So long as there are people who enjoy developing tools (I don't really fly any more but I love tinkering around inside FS and I know quite a few others like that) I think there is a place for both and MS may well have worked out that to satisfy everyone would be far too much effort and it is a lot easier - and potentially better for the community as a whole if they produce good SDKs and leave it to us :-)

In the development, it might be handy for the MS team to have such tools available, too. They could EASILY have a few member team create new airport scenery using the tools for both to be included with FS. It would work both ways. A better Out of Box experience, and a better tool for scenery design (which in turn helps with longetivity). :)I'd love to see such a tool available. :)