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Guest Steve Brown

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There were the days when if you didn't take a look in the AVSIM Fly! forum for a single day then you needed to scroll two or three pages to get updated.There were the days when Fly! add-ons were mentioned in the first page of AVSIM forum and Wayne's scenarios popped frequently, even daily in some occasions.Personally I have also reduced my anger to understand Fly! databases and structure and continue to develop Fly! add-ons. However, I still love Fly! and for me it is still the most exciting simulator developed until now. I'm talking in terms of the way it handles the process of fly.Yes, MS Fly Simulator has beautiful scenarios and aircrafts and components and facilities. But what is the case? They have plenty of tools and information that facilitates their development processes.Fly! has the potentiality to have very real and detailed scenarios and aircrafts and components. We know that because there are lots of demonstrations that this is possible in this forum. So I came up with a conclusion.1. The Fly! community is too small that it is a waste of time to continue to invest on it2. We lack of complete and easy to use tools to help people develop add-ons to Fly!The first assumption is critical, if it is true. The second is a matter of doing something.Then I also came up with an idea. If we can understand how big and where Fly! community are, and also identify the intention of this community to continue to Fly with Fly! then we measure if the assumption one is true or not.If it is not true the second step is do something. Thinking on that, I remembered that we eat bulls in beefs. So why can't we develop integrated, easy to use and complete Fly! development tool in beefs?The ones that knows Fly! structures and how to get and put information in databases can develop easy to understand documentation. The ones that have programming skills can develop pieces of the software, the ones that have project management skills can contribute to manage the developing process, the flyers can test the tools and help finding bugs, reporting them,

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Sadly Im very frustrated with some things in Fly2. The scenery Im making for Liverpool Airport EGGP is hampered with problems around the Airports elevation. Taxi-ing in the GA appron the plane sinks bringing ground level over your head. This is the same with my Borras Airfield project. I have no idea how to overcome it. In the end, its the sim or my family life and you know which I would choose first. I too am thinking of moving away from Fly2 design because of these problems?????. Im still doing the odd flying but getting fed up with problems I cant solve and dont have the time to learn how to correct them.The forum is very slow now as you said. :-( I have only been 3 or 4 times in the past 8 days and hardly missed a thing. Its a shame, though we all have our lives to lead."Then I also came up with an idea. If we can understand how big and where Fly! community are, and also identify the intention of this community to continue to Fly with Fly! then we measure if the assumption one is true or not."I did this a few months back and many answered who are users in Fly2 which was very good. But it didnt really change anything but learn how many visit the forum from time to time.But things are happening! ROTW & F2FDesign have projects as always... Some of the guys are learning how to create Aircraft and Giorgio has things hidden up his sleeve that "WILL BLOW YOUR MIND AWAY" ;-) SteveMy Websitehttp://www.wrexhamspace.orghttp://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ysomdesign/banner.jpg

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Fly! and Fly!2 remain my sims of choice - I really don't find much that attracts me in MS. I know it's now an excellent sim, but I really don't have the time to invest in working in two sim environments.Heck, I haven't had any time in the last few months to work on any of my Fly!2 projects, due to unexpected programs at work and the needs of my family.However, my plans are to continue with scenery development and database work at the earliest opportunity:-2 more global tiles to finish the Carolinas TerraScene project-Another TerraScene area in Arizona-TerraScene projects around the U.S. around finished airports-Over 70 database fixes for U.S. navigation and approach systems

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G'day JJLOBO,What's this! Take a couple of weeks holiday and return to all this doom and gloom. :-)>1. The Fly! community is too small that it is a waste of time>to continue to invest on it.Fact: Three commercial enterprises have tried making money out of producing add ons for Fly! series of sims. All failed to make a satisfactory return on their invested time/effort so consequently ceased development for Fly! II.The user base is very very very small. So any developer who has designs on making money OR has an ego that needs feeding is not going to get satisfaction developing for Fly! II.On a personal note simming is a HOBBY to me. I enjoy flying (dreaming) and also like to "fiddle" within the sim; make a bit of scenery; do a repaint; make some static models and am trying to make an aircraft. I do all this because I like to. It's a challenge, and when I succeed in doing a small change I get a degree of inner satisfaction. >2. We lack of complete and easy to use tools to help people>develop add-ons to Fly!This is definitely NOT true. With Fly!II we are blessed with an abundance of development add-ons.>The first assumption is critical, if it is true. The second is>a matter of doing something.The first assumption can only be true if one is developing for the reasons I stated previously. I don't care if I'm the only person in the world using Fly!II, I will still "fiddle". How can you say it is a waste of time. I saw a thread not so long back on another forum where a case was being made that it was a waste of time developing for any sim because as soon as the next version of the sim gets released the project doesn't work with the new release!! >If it is not true the second step is do something. Thinking on>that, I remembered that we eat bulls in beefs. So why can't we>develop integrated, easy to use and complete Fly! development>tool in beefs?Que ?? - sorry; I don't understand. I think you mean modules. >The ones that knows Fly! structures and how to get and put>information in databases can develop easy to understand>documentation. The ones that have programming skills can>develop pieces of the software, the ones that have project>management skills can contribute to manage the developing>process, the flyers can test the tools and help finding bugs,>reporting them,

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JL,There are a large number of brilliant Fly enthusiasts who work to improve the sim and long may that continue.I imagine that for many of us finding time to run the sim, let alone create scenery or aircraft, is difficult with the numerous demands on our lives.The saddest thing (imho) for Fly was the passing of Richard. Richard devoted a huge amount of his life to Fly and surely we owe it to him to enjoy Fly and take the sims as far as is possible.Yes,it's unfortunate that we cannot have the source code but that hasn't stopped groups from producing wonderful addons.I have done some basic Terrascenery and flying through those areas gives me greater enjoyment than when I fly through areas of default scenery. My knowledge of computer programs is extremely limited and so those who upload tutorials on scenery/aircraft design etc give others the chance to create something more for Fly. Chasing around the internet and libraries for such information is too time consuming (for me at least). Having the authors available to answer any queries in the forum makes one even more inclined to give it a go.Fly isn't the only sim that no longer has input from the original development team. EAW and BOB (both combat flight sims) have enormous folowings and continue to progress due to the enthusiasm and persistence of a few in spite of newer sims being released.With increasingly cheaper and faster computers with more memory that enable Fly to run more smoothly, it is a pity that Terminal Reality don't re-release FlyII at a cheap price that may enable more to enjoy it.Re-release of other sims at cheap prices have benefitted them eg EAW and BOB.Both MSFS and X-Plane seem to have taken a lot of ideas from the Fly series and incorporated them in successive versions (particularly MSFS).(Imitation the sincerest form of flattery?). Although I haven't used X-Plane Austin Meyer needs to be congratulated for his sim. The world can't be all microsoft.There is nothing stopping any of us flying different sims when one chooses but for me Fly offers something the others don't and I shall continue to use it and hope that Fly's development will proceed in the manner of EAW and BOB. Just look at their forums at SimHQ.Having less to read on the forum gives me more time to fly! :-wave

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Hi JJLobo,Wow, your post certainly generated some interesting responses!I have to say that I agree with just about everything that the others have said here, especially Roger's statement that Fly! is a HOBBY!Fly!ing is also a hobby for me. I seldom actually fly the sim these days due to lack of time but I do fire it up pretty regularly to check out things I'm working on.Fly! is a personal thing for me also - I wouldn't care if I was the only one using it; it has become part of my life in the way that any hobby does. I don't devote endless hours to it but some time each day gets spent either in the sim or development of utilities.There are lots of people working on tools and add-ons all over the world. A quick look at the ROTW site will show the activity in France and other parts of Europe is quite high. There never will be the same level of activity as for MS or even X-Plane but I would say that the tools are every bit as good for Fly!Personally, I don't have the time or interest to get to grips with another sim. It's all about realism, and (for me) Fly! is the best at that.RegardsColin

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Steve,You couldn't be more correct about F2FD and ROTW having projects... Our latest project has been coded "X". Does anyone want to guess???The only "problem" is that these projects take time, like with the Dauphin. Again, because this is a HOBBY, we do what we can when we can, and I know that this can be frustrating (and I think you know what I mean... ;-)).But I think everyone will agree, that most of what is produced for Fly! is of great quality. Even though we're "only a few" we have certainly raised the bar and expect only the best. Maybe that's what this sim is all about... just for detail-oriented, picky, obsessive simmers... :-grnmd (aka weirdos...) :-hah :-hah... just kidding.Regarding the elevations, shoot me an e-mail and I'll walk you through the process of fixing that.Take care,http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/dfdg/banneraa.jpg

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Reading your message with the most negative of interpretations leads me to ask one fundamental question; if FLY is dead, should we shut this forum and all FLY related forums down?

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Not kidding, but not serious either. I wanted to gauge how everyone really feels about the subject.

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There are still plenty of us around - some of us have had to lay low for a while as simming has to take a back seat once in a while.Seriously, this is the only place on the Net where Fly! afficianados can gather, share resources, and keep the flame burning. There are plenty of great specialist, development, and local sites, but Avsim remains the home of the world's Fly! community.

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Steve, and all, just so everyone understands my feelings on this subject...I lost a good friend when Richard past on, as did the whole community. This forum and its members are a global memorial to him and his great works. This forum isn't going anywhere for a long time to come.

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First off all I would like to thank all the interesting responses. I decided to answer at your post, Colin, because you have mentioned in a good summary the other's people postings.I'm talking about develop add-ons for fun. Never thought about money. And I understand people's time constraint. I agree that we have a good quantity of tools people around has been using to produce Fly! tolls.What I have in mind though is something integrated that facilitates the process of creating add-ons and then let more people, with less time, generate more and more add-ons. Probably just an impossible dream.JJLobo

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Tom,You really scared me for a while. But I'm glad to hear what you just posted.I totally agree with Randy, this is THE place that I most frequently visit on the Internet, period. Sometimes I'm not as active but that's because of family, word or school obligations.I'd hate to ever see this wonderful and healthy (in every sense) community disappear.Regards,http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/dfdg/banneraa.jpg

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Tom,Before you even consider shutting this forum down you should first zap the ProPilot forum. Talking about a useless forum whose only claim to fame are short-final jokes. :-lolLast I checked FLY! still had a bigger market share than X-Plane (per Avsim's last poll). Michael J.

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Now don't go trying to start anything Michael. You know better than that. I am emotionally attached to both. :)

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Hi Tom,Though I'm not posting often in this forum but, everyday I checked this forum hoping to see new aircraft and sceneries developed and uploaded to the library. Almost everyday after work I fire-up FLY2 and had a short flight. It still is my flightsim of choice.Thanks to steve brown, randall, tony, ROTW too many to mention and all the FLY2 folks in keeping this sim FLYing.chris- CA

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I don't think that the real problem is the number of "active" fly!ers (i.e flyers who post on our forums) but the possibility to increase the number of all the fly!ers. And the unique solution is to obtain from TRI (or Take2 or anybody else) the possibility to provide (free or not) a clean copy (that means a FLY!2 v2.50 with a lot of add'ons and fixed modules) of this sim.Here (in France), we have tried to contact Take2-France and TRI: no answer!Mister Allensworth, do you have the possibility to contact them and to obtain something? That will be a beautifull and positive action, don't you think?Ren

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I really admire your strength around Fly!. You certainly makes my heart beat a little more confident Fly! will still be around. I love this sim..Regards to all of you___ JJLobo ___55 11 37268158

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I think if someone could fix the plug in for FSDS, airplane design would multiply exponentially. The plug in should be simple. In fact, the plug in does a great job making and texturing a plane from a simple dfx msfs2000-2 file. It cannot animate the moving parts, and this is where some work is needed.The panel maker is great--if we could only get mathews to clean it up a little.My experience with aircraft design has been as follows:3dmax: great , but steep and expensive learning curvefsds: cheap, but limitedPanel maker: fantastic, but needs a bit more work.If we could get the FSimport to import all of the fs default scenery...If we could have some more work done to the autogen to populate the default scenery...So, we are almost there....tony

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Before Richard passed away, I wrote to Tom about available documentation that might be of interest to the FLY2 community.....Perhaps his wife......tony

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Many many thanks Tom :-) I think looking at this in a broader viewpoint, most of the frustration lies with Tri/Take2 as Rene` rightly says. I understand the legalities of all this, and think giving us the code needed or the use of it, very unlikely, but not impossible. Our French Team, ROTW and Multi-national team, F2FDesign have powerful potential to do much much more. Its sad these guys (Tri/Take2) dont even give us a Yes or No....Many of the Fly forum have invested money and even much more time than anyone could emagine. This is our passion, we love Fly and have grown up in learning with it. We are very proud of what Richard and his team have done, and miss his help and dedication bitterly.But... Fly could not be were it is today, if it wasnt in part to Avsim. This is our nest, we brood in it, we feed from it and some of us Fly from it as real world pilots. I for one have grown fat from its produce :-lol Thankyou Tom and the Team at Avsim... we love you (in a Brotherly kind of way ;-) )Steve (Cookie) Brown :-) My Websitehttp://www.wrexhamspace.orghttp://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ysomdesign/banner.jpg

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