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dkohl

Using Fly!2 for IFR Training

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Hello fellow Fly!ers and real-world pilots.Its been 18 months since I achieved my ticket. I am about to begin my instrument training. Several of my pilot friends have recommended MS Flight Simulator as a good (and cheap) way to practice approaches and use the instruments. While this wouldn't qualify for PC simulator time under FAA rules, the practice is helpful regardless.As a long-time Fly! 2 flyer (I have a yoke and pedals as well), I'm planning to try our simulator before purchasing another. But one concern is the accuracy of the Fly!2 database, particularly given its relative age.Has anyone in the Fly! community taken out some approach plates and shot a few VOR approaches? GPS approaches? RNAV? Given the real-life value of the training, would Fly!2 suffice, or should I go out and drop $50 on MSFS which many of my friends say is spot-on accurate?Opinions welcome... and I hope nobody uses this as an invitation to engage in "simulator wars". My question is one of utility for real-life training. I hope answers will be honest and unbiased in that respect.Many thanks fellow Fly!ers and pilots.- David

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Hello there David one can up date the database for fly for the airport(s) that you would do your approaches into as well as any enroute and terminal navaids. Learning how to up-date the databases is not all that hard to do BTW. I myself have not been around the forums much in the last couple of years(since Richard passed away) but I and many other people can walk you through how to do it I used to spend a lot of time in the databases amoung other things. You will need up to date nav info(you could get the info from up-to date approach plates,terminal and High and Low altitude charts(if you use Jeppesen material and have J-Aid service with it so much the betteras you will have all the data you will need to add any terminal info that will in all probability be out of datemissing for your area of intrest. J-Aid has all the info on the locations of things like the location of the localizers outer,middle and inner markers plus info on the location of glideslopes DME xmitters and such.Hope I've been of some help. Dan Martin

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Hi,David:Yes, you can use Fly!II for IFR practice. I must point out though one problem I have had is the VOR's loosing signal. I don't recall which airports exactly. Most of my sim flying was in the Oklahoma City, Oklahoma area. KOUN (Max Westheimer) was where I did most of my takeoffs from. IFR approaches were outstanding because of the quality of clouds in Fly!II and the ability the choose to the foot where they shall end and begin. Fly!II realy helped me when I was doing my instrument ticket. I highly reccomend it even if the data bases aren't totally accurate.I have and use MSFS but mainly for discovering new areas and joy flying. I have done IFR with FS2002 and FS2004 but am happier with the Fly!II cockpit. ...just my prefference. On my old system the guages were smoother with Fly!One more thing, as I recall WalMart has FS2004 Century of Flight for a very reasonable price. You may want to look there before committing to a purchase.Good Luck!Blake

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David,If you have to get a new Sim for the IFR training isn't X-Plane sim time recognised for flight training?Good luck,

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>David,>If you have to get a new Sim for the IFR training isn't>X-Plane sim time recognised for flight training?Sure, but you have to couple an older version of X-Plane with a $100,000+ simulator platform to do it! :D At the moment, with compatibility issues between version to version, and previous aircraft to new versions, I don't believe I'd trust X-Planes navigation systems, these days!As to FLYII, I remember problems with the FFU VOR, outside of KSLC not working as line of sight. You had to hit a certain altitude to pick up the signal. But in my area of flight, it was the only real problem. Of course, the FLY data-bases would be older the MSFS, which is still a few years out of date. Just compare the existing info with new sectionals, I suppose.L.Adamson

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Hi David,As has been already stated, if there are any accuracy issues, they can be remedied by updating the database. I do almost all my Fly!ing in IFR conditions, using the actual approach plates in all circumstances.I have found Fly!II to be extremely accurate. On those occasions where anything was amiss, I edited the database and was able to correct it in most cases. Range issues are very easy to correct, also.

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Just thought I would say hello Randall as I've not been around for quite a while. Dan(the database guy) Martin.

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Most all of the Navaids / waypoints et al. have been updated to the last release from DAFIF over at the ROTW site. Whether or not this provides any accuracy in positioning itself, I do not think so. Many of Randall's fixes should be in the library to get also. ;-)So far, I've Terra-Scened my local are (around 4J6) and I've not had any problems with IFR procedures and lining up (just staying "in the groove" is my problem! ). And... If I am not mistaken, stuck to the top of the Developer's Forum is info on the primary databases! I cut-n-pasted / printed those out for guidance to fix my runways at 4J6 and set up the airport's features. Many Cheers and best of luck on that next ticket!Ken Wood :-sun1Seawind Projecthttp://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/dfdg/bannernewkw.jpgGateway 700X; Intel P4 2.4GHz; 512MB RAM; NVIDIA Ti4200 4X AGP 128MB; SB Audigy; Thrustmaster TopGun Fox 2 Pro Shock

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Hey Dave,I'm currently working on my IFR ticket and I use both sims for practice. If you want to get a feel for the ATC side of the IFR stuff I use MS, for practice on approches I use Fly due to the smoother gauges and flight models (MS is still to twitchy for my taste). I haven't had any problems with the DB not matching the plates around the Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky and Michigan area. As far as loosing the VOR signal...it can happen in real life so why not practice it in the sim? :)Another thing I picked up is the IFR dvd set from Sporty's, check out www.sportys.com for it.For text, the FAA and gleim books I find really dry and high on the "put me to sleep" side so I picked up Rod Machados IFR book from www.rodmachado.comAnother good thing is the practice FAA test at Sporty's, just follow the FAA test link from the pilot shop, register and start beating your head against the wall figuring out proper entry into a holding pattern :)Good luck on the ticket and drop me a line to let me know how you're doing. flyhelp@zoomtown.comc ya :-waveBart

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FLY II has one feature that is especially good other than the clouds- an IFR hood!!! That being said; last time I checked there was MSFS selling for 30 bucks at Staples. My 'puter I FLY on is totally on the blink, but right now I miss FLY more than MSFS. I do use both.About the twitches- If frame rate goes down your mouse gets jerky in FLY, but your guages can get jerky in MSFS. Which would you prefer?Best Regards; Donny:-wave

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Thanks so far, for the good feedback. I will continue to read postings and try to figure out the database update procedures so as to bring approaches, fixes, etc. up to date.With respect to books, DVD's, etc., I am planning on purchasing Rob Machado's book.... I've heard very good things about it. Thanks.- DK----David KohlFly! II v2.5.240Dell 8200 P4/1.8G, 1024MB RAM, Nvidia GF4 Ti4600 v52.16, WinXP Home Edition SP1.CH Pro Pedals and Yoke USB.

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One other thing you'll need is a copy of the current FAR/AIM...you can buy one for about$15.00 or if you're cheap like me download it from the FAA site and run copies at work :)If you look on page xiii (Instrument/CFII) in the front of the FAR/AIM it lists the chapters/sections you need to know for the written.One question that my cfi asked me that the answer is in the FAR/AIM isIs VFR flight allowed in Class A airspace?Another good thing to get is a Francis Hood, you can get them at Sporty's or just about any online pilot shop. It's the best IFR hood around, once you put that puppy on you are SOLID IFR!!, it's not bulky and the back of your neck won't hurt from having all that "weight forward" with the older style hoods.Keep a check on ebay for the Sporty's dvd's. I picked a set up and saved about $30.00, just make sure the age of the set you get. There are a lot of the old VHS sets on ebay right now but for their age they probably aren't current.Did you start steep turns under the hood yet? Let me know how you're first one goes!c ya :-waveBart

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>About the twitches- If frame rate goes down your mouse gets>jerky in FLY, but your guages can get jerky in MSFS. Which>would you prefer?>The RealAir Simulations SF260 and Spitfire gauges are of the same fluid smoothness, as X-Planes, which are normally smoother than either Fly or MSFS. RealAir came up with a new technique (although it has gauge limitations), just as RealAir (Rob Young) came up with some much improved flight dynamics for the original Fly series. I hear that the Reality XP series of advanced gauges for MSFS are quite smooth too.L.Adamson

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Hey Dan! I was wondering how you are doing these days!I've got two e-mail addresses for you, though I don't know which is current. Drop me a line sometime (I'm still at the same address) and let's catch up.

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Hi there Randall send me a private message and I will give you my email details. BTW it's good to hear from you too! Dan

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