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Roger Mazengarb

Core 2 Duo and Fly!II saga. Need help

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G'day all,This is a bit long but there might be a lesson in here for anyone else upgrading.Well the day finally arrived and after building my new computer system and loading XP-Pro onto it I picked up my copy of the American version of Fly!II and casually slipped it into the DVD rom drive.I just knew it wasn't going to be straight forward. :-) Well Fly! II seemingly installed no hassles but on running the 152-210 all in one patch I was greeted with the familiar "old file found with same name ..." error message. Ha!! mute the midi and uninstall and try again; dang! it: same result :-) This time uninstalled Fly! II and copied the Fly!II installation CD to my WD Raptor hard drive. Installed from the hard drive - woww! installation took only about 10-15 secs - lightning fast. Applied the 152-210 patch - no problem Applied the 240 patch. - no problem.BUT: When I checked the Launch fly! II box and clicked finish the Fly II splash screen (PC12 in sunset) appeared and then nothing. I waited and waited and waited but after what seemed an eternity I warm booted and tried starting Fly! II from desktop. Same result; instant splash screen then nothing. Anxious to get Fly! II up and running I panicked and did a complete uninstall and reinstall as prviously stated. Again, instant splash screen and then nothing. At this stage I decided to make a cup of coffee whilst I muse over how I explain to my wife that I have a new computer that wont run Fly! II.(she bought some of it for me for Christmas and my birthday) You can imagine my surprise and delight, when on returning to the computer I saw the video setup screen displaying. Excitedly I quickly set the video parameters and clicked fly now. Pure bliss; everything I was hoping for and then some. :-jumpyOk so back to the problem. I tried starting Fly! II once more from the desktop.Instant splash screen; then nothing, so I settled in for a long wait. 4 minutes and 10 secs later the video screen appeared and Fly! II was ready for business. (I've checked this several times).Can anyone offer suggestions as to what might be causing this extrodinary long delay. I'm hoping it's something as simple as a setting in the bios or XP-Pro or maybe even on of the Fly! II files.Please , I need helpCheers,Roger

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Well, first thing I would try Roger is this: Right click on the Fly! II icon and select Properties - then the Compatibility Tab - check the Run this program in Compatibility mode for: and try Win98 selection. Reboot (to be safe, then try the program once again. Keep in mind - even in a stock install - if you have a large Virtual memory setting, or lots of space - Fly! II will want to load as much of its stuff into memory as it can. Especially if there is a lot in the SceneryShared folder. Mine won't go blank - but the helicopter screen will take some time to show the sim loading - as I have to run some of my sceneries from the shared folder - (no matter what I do, they won't run from their own folder in the scenery folder with scf file). See what happens with that, otherwise - just make a cup of coffee - let the flight attendant double check the cabin and then you shold be C4TO :-hahCheers,Ken Wood :-sun1http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/dfdg/bannernewkw.jpgGateway 700X; Intel P4 2.4GHz; 512MB RAM; NVIDIA Ti4200 4X AGP 128MB; SB Audigy; Thrustmaster TopGun Fox 2 Pro Shock

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G'day Ken,Thanks for the quick reply. Being a first timer with Win XP I'm way out of my comfort zone. You've made me feel better already. :-)>Well, first thing I would try Roger is this: Right click on>the Fly! II icon and select Properties - then the>Compatibility Tab - check the Run this program in>Compatibility mode for: and try Win98 selection. Reboot (to be>safe, then try the program once again.That's very interesting!. So I take it XP has a sort of emulation mode. As soon as I get the chance I'll give it a try and report back.> Keep in mind - even in>a stock install - if you have a large Virtual memory setting,>or lots of space - Fly! II will want to load as much of its>stuff into memory as it can. Especially if there is a lot in>the SceneryShared folder. Mine won't go blank - but the>helicopter screen will take some time to show the sim loading.Sorry I think I've mislead you. The splash screen appears and then its like the computer just freezes with the splash screen displayed. It doesn't go blank. 4 minutes and 10 seconds later the video setup screen displays.Thinking about what you are saying and I think that Fly! II may be loading BEFORE displaying the video setup screen because as soon as I click Fly now on the video setup screen the helicopter screen displays and is virtually instantly red and the green band on the fuel gauge is also virtually instant. This could be just due to the fact that the processor is faster but surely not that much faster.Thanks for the helpCheers,Roger

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Hi Roger,The only time I've had long loading times is when I worked on new planes and, for some reasons, FLY2 was forced to load from directories other than the standard ones. As you know, FLY also looks at all directories as well as CD drives. This can also make loading times long. If you go into the FLY.ini you will find some reference to how FLY looks for files. Play with it and see what happens.Don't panic, FLY runs very well on win xp. But I confess that from time to time I could not understand the long loading times.If the screen turns black, it's clearly a video driver issue. Here I suspect you need to test the various drivers . I am using Nvidia 91.47 with my fx6600 gt.Let us know.Tony

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G'day Ken,Well you can add another complete removal and reinstallation of Fly! II to my previous post :-lolThis time I actually timed the installation! 35 seconds. (not the 10-15 seconds I mentioned earlier) Amazing how my brain approximation was out by a factor of 2 X. But it is very fast. I selected properties and selected the compatibility tab, checked the box and selected win98/me from the dropdown menu. Clicked on apply and back to desktop. To be honest I can't remember whether I then rebooted (I think I did but not 100% sure). Anyway when I clicked on Fly! II on the desktop the splash screen display and shortly followed by an error box telling me that Fly!2.exe had an error and had to close. Even when I re-entered propertiescompatability and removed the run in compatability mode, Fly!2.exe refused to co-operate. Thus a complete removal and reinstallation was in order.Never mind, I guess it's an idiosynchrosy that I'll have to put up with to get such blistering performance - and I do mean blistering.I guess I'm just going to become a coffee addaict ! :-lolCheers, Roger

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G'day Ken,Well you can add another complete removal and reinstallation of Fly! II to my previous post :-lolThis time I actually timed the installation! 35 seconds. (not the 10-15 seconds I mentioned earlier) Amazing how my brain approximation was out by a factor of 2 X. But it is very fast. I selected properties and selected the compatibility tab, checked the box and selected win98/me from the dropdown menu. Clicked on apply and back to desktop. To be honest I can't remember whether I then rebooted (I think I did but not 100% sure). Anyway when I clicked on Fly! II on the desktop the splash screen display and shortly followed by an error box telling me that Fly!2.exe had an error and had to close. Even when I re-entered propertiescompatability and removed the run in compatability mode, Fly!2.exe refused to co-operate. Thus a complete removal and reinstallation was in order.Never mind, I guess it's an idiosynchrosy that I'll have to put up with to get such blistering performance - and I do mean blistering.I guess I'm just going to become a coffee addaict ! :-lolCheers, Roger

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Roger: I am running WinXP and have had the very same problem of a hang-up on the helicopter splash screen. My problem seems to be when I am running large amounts of Terrascene and then attempt multiple dynamic aircraft. If I set the dynamic scenery in fly.ini to =0, then flyII starts o.k. I have only 512mb RAM and now believe I need more.Cheers,Brian.

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G'day Tony,I don't see it being a loading problem - apart from the OS Fly! II is the only program on the computer. I think it's more likely to be an interrogation problem because when the video setup screen does finally display it has found and displayed my video card 7600GT. I'm using the NV 93.71 (WHCL certified) driver. Thought I'd start at the latest official release and work my way backwards if I have any graphics problems. - none so far.Yep SearchOtherDrives=0 for some reason there is 2 of these entries (different spelling) but they are both 0(default). I do remember Rich saying that if you use another drive then you must locate the fly folder to be searched in the root directory of the other drive for this function to work.I'm keeping rather cool actually. My biggest concern is should I have one lump or two in my coffee. :-)Thanks for the suggestionsCheers,Roger

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Roger,There's always the fall back position to install win 98 and have two operating systems working for you. You may want to reinstall win xp and, with it, allow win 98 installation as well.It's easy and, in your case, it might reduce some heartburn from all those cups of coffee.tony

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Hi Roger,I've had no issues running Fly!II on XP and do not use emulation. It runs much better than it did on my Win98 (including decent start-up times).One question for right now - did you adjust the render.ini in any way before you started the first time or did you start with the default?

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G'day Randall,No mate ; strictly default render.ini. Haven't touched it: YET :-)[Graphics]mipLevelCount=8vertexIndexFormat=1premultiplyColorAndAlpha=0allowAutoMipMapping=0directTextureFlag=0[Textures]maxTextures32=0maxTextures64_565=16maxTextures128=72maxTextures128_565=999maxTextures256=20maxTextures256_565=32maxTextures512=8maxTextures512_565=0maxTextures1024=1mipMapFlag=896maxTextures64=16[NonAGP]maxTextures256_565=0[AGP]maxTextures256_565=0Card is Asus EN7600GT 256 MB and driver is nvidia 93.71 I note that because I only have 1 GB of motherboard ram that the ram is only working in single channel mode. (whatever that means) but I will be adding another 1 GB of memory as soon as I've saved the pennies. I have adjusted the options/realism and /scenery screens within Fly! II to give a better quality image/performance. I have also been into the Nvidia setup program but the problem I was having occurred before I made any in here and still persist despite the changes I have made.Cheers,Roger

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Roger,Don't buy the extra Gig simply for dual channel mode. You wont notice the difference, except out of your pocket. I've been using 1 gig of mem on a system much less powerful than yours and FLY2 has very good frame rates. Just my opinion.TonyOn the slow loading, why don't you start FLY2 without the upgrades? Just curious to see how it loads.

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G'day Tony,> Don't buy the extra Gig simply for dual channel mode. You wont notice the difference, except out of your pocket. I've been> using 1 gig of mem on a system much less powerful than yours and FLY2 has very good frame rates. No problem with the frame rates :-jumpy (so far with everything default haven't yet loaded addon stuff) but I'm wondering why do I get this long wait after clicking the desktop shortcut before the graphic setup screen. What's keeping Fly! II so occupied? For a machine that operates in nonoseconds, 4 minutes 10 seconds is an eternity! There has to be a reason. It may well be just the way Fly! II (or XP) reacts with the motherboard/processor. I have now loaded TrueSpace 4.3 and Photoshop 7.0 and both these programs start very quickly with no problems, so it seems to be Fly! II thats having the problems. Since you and others don't have the problem then it's pretty much pointing to my motherboard/processor combination. Just IMHO. I have absolutely no evidence to back it up.I still will probably go ahead with the extra Gig of memory - although not after an increase in frame rates.Do you thihk it might be a virtual memory problem? How should I have that set in Win XP?EDIT: I did start Fly! II as soon as I installed - before patching. Same problem. Cheers,Roger

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Roger,There's a program that looks at the way programs load into memory. It then provides visual display, including times, of which "task" is loading and the time it takes.I don't remember the name, but if I do I'll give it to you. YOu may want to do some google searching.The "catatonic" behavior puzzles me, given that I too would get it after loading some new scenery or files into FLY. 1. Have you observed the hard drive light? Is it running? If so, then you know that it's searching the disk before loading it( the mistery file) into memory. 2. The Hard drive has been formatted as a NTFS or fat 32 ?3. Have you defragged the drive?4. Have you considered partitioning the drive?I am almost sure that it's a problem with how fly searches its directories and files. 5. After fly loads, you may want to see which files have been modified( look at the date). This might give you some clue.As to the virtual memory question, if did not change it, windows allocates all the memory that's needed. Besides, your ram is plenty , so the virtual drive doesn't play .6. Lastly, check to see if the cd disk light comes on while fly is loading.As explained earlier, FLY looks everywhere for its files and if one file is missing or displaced, it will search and search until it finds it. This, of course, takes time.Don't give up.....tony

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G'day Tony,>The "catatonic" behavior puzzles me, given that I too would>get it after loading some new scenery or files into FLY. >>1. Have you observed the hard drive light? Is it running? If>so, then you know that it's searching the disk before loading>it( the mistery file) into memory. HDD led does not suggest disk searching.>2. The Hard drive has been formatted as a NTFS or fat 32 ?Formatted NTFS - done automatically prior to loading the OS. I had no say in which format.>3. Have you defragged the drive?I did a defrag using the OS tool immediately after loading the OSI have downloaded a third part defragger and will have a go with that.>4. Have you considered partitioning the drive? This is so far the only advantage of WinXP over Win98SE. No more need for MS-DOS and Fdisk. Also with "active bios" I can update the bios from within windows.Yes the drive is partitioned. 74 GB Western DiditalC: 15 GB active primary partition contains OS and Fly! IIF: 60 GB primary patition - empty (not being used at present)>I am almost sure that it's a problem with how fly searches its>directories and files. I have a lead I wish to explore concerning a problem with one of my CD drives. Device manager reports that they are set up and working correctly but it is telling lies. They are set up as Mater and slave on a single IDE channel but one simply refuses to recognise that it has a disk in it. (it is possible that the drive is faulty?)>5. After fly loads, you may want to see which files have been>modified( look at the date). This might give you some clue.I don't follow?? After 5 patches surely all the original dates will be changed!?>As to the virtual memory question, if did not change it,>windows allocates all the memory that's needed. Besides, your>ram is plenty , so the virtual drive doesn't play .I haven't set virtual memory. It will be whatever windows XP defaults to.>6. Lastly, check to see if the cd disk light comes on while>fly is loading.>As explained earlier, FLY looks everywhere for its files and>if one file is missing or displaced, it will search and search>until it finds it. This, of course, takes time.Not so sure about this. - serchotherdrives=0 and searchotherdrives=0 is set in Fly.ini Of course these may only be effective once fly! II is loaded and running.>Don't give up.....Hey you know me Tony; never give up Roger they call me. What do you think I am?? - an English cricketer :-lolThere's nothing I enjoy more than a bit of a challenge.Cheers,Roger

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Roger,"date on files"--actually, those files that are read by FLY acquire the date the current date. I will tell you more about it when I figure out the name of that program.1. Video card-- go into the bios and look at the agp aperture. Fly is very fussy about this. Look at its setting and then adjust it downward. It's improbable that this is the cause , but who knows.2. Joy stick drivers. Usb drivers are notoriously slow and FLY being old..... Try disabling these drivers and then load fly.3. two partitions? Just for the heck of it, try putting the program on the second partition--with the os on the first.There's agreat program, Ultimate Defrag , with which you can actually locate FLY on the outer ring, thereby reducing access time considerably. REad about it....Tony

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G'day Tony,>1. Video card-- go into the bios and look at the agp aperture.>Fly is very fussy about this. Look at its setting and then>adjust it downward. It's improbable that this is the cause ,>but who knows.Ok I checked right through the bios settings. I could find no mention AGP aperture or anything of similar name but as I'm using a PCI-Express motherboard and video card I'm not really surprised.The PCI-E standard was not around when Fly! II was conceived so just maybe Fly! II is having a dummy spit during startup.If you look at the Render.ini in a post further back you will see the automatic allocation of texture slots for a 256 Mb card. >2. Joy stick drivers. Usb drivers are notoriously slow and>FLY being old..... Try disabling these drivers and then load>fly.No problems with the operation of the joystick (USB). The driver is the default Win XP driver. I haven't loaded any joystick driver.>3. two partitions? Just for the heck of it, try putting the>program on the second partition--with the os on the first.>There's agreat program, Ultimate Defrag , with which you can>actually locate FLY on the outer ring, thereby reducing access>time considerably. REad about it....There is no hard drive activity during the long wait for the video setup screen. Whatever the problem is it is all happening in memory.As things stand my setup is excellent for a user but I'm afraid it is a big no-no for development work.At a guess I would probably fire up Fly! II aprox a couple of hundred times when making an aircraft ( I've obviously never counted but it is a heck of a lot). 200 X 4 min 10 secs is 833 minutes which is a long time to be looking at a Pilatus PC-12. :-)Just for info my old computer only takes 33 seconds from double clicking the shortcut icon on desktop to sitting in the cockpit of the Cessna ready for Take-off. But that's on an antiquated OS - Win98SE :-lol Cheers,Roger

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G'day all,Well after all that I feel a trifle embarrassed. :+The original complaint is still valid but simply by settingaskuserforgraphics=0 in Fly!.ini and I go from desktop shortcut to the Cessna cockpit in 15 secs (timed - that's only half the time of my old computer so I'm stoked), so I really dont have a huge problem.The only time it will be of any problem is when I want to switch from dx8 to Dx8-T&L in the render box. Unfotunately whilst Dx8=T&L gives the subdude glow of the early morning and late afternoon sun it reduces the landing/taxi lights to single figure candle power.Sorry for the panic session.cheers,Roger

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Hey Roger,Sorry to read of all your problems!FWIW I don't think that it is much to do with your setup.I've used Fly with XP since XP beta days and never had a problem.I've also never had to 'tweak' any XP settings.The same goes for your drive configuration.Fly doesn't care - period.It may run a tidgy bit slower or faster depending on drive but with your new processor it probably won't be noticeable anyway.One thing you might consider is which of the dll's you are using.Fly came with 3 of them. You never know, try one of the others.The other point you made about a faulty CD may be relevant also. Try physically disconnecting it - XP won't care, it's very good with changing configurations and you won't need to change anything in the bios either.It can't be a big problem. A lot of people make a lot of fuss about running Fly, re-installing etc. but I don't see the need for most of it.I have Fly installed on a HD in my main computer at home. I also have a copy of this installation on a portable usb drive which I take away to work with me. I must admit that I don't use it much any more but I used to.It's also the original installation!By that I mean that I have only installed Fly11 once.I have moved and copied the directory a few times over the years but I have never had to re-install it.When I have had problems it has always been driver related.This could be a mobo driver as well as a display driver!I'm sure you will get to the bottom of it.CheersColin

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G'day Collin,Thanks for taking an interest.If you look at my previous post in this thread you will see that I have basically solved ( or found a workaround ) to my problem.- simply set fly.ini to by-pass the the opening splash screen and video setup screen. Fly! II then loads real quick. So it is just the way Fly! II interrogates my system that causes the extended delay.I still need to check out the non operation of the Benq DVD RW drive. Will do so as soon as I get the time. I have 2 dvd RW drives and they appear to be SCSI even though they are woking off an IDE connector. - as master and slave. I'll check it out. Cheers,Roger

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Roger,Glad that you got your problem sorted out...I would have replied to this thread sooner, but I fainted upon reading that you'd upgraded your PC, and have only just now come to and picked myself up off the floor!Have fun...Chris WallaceOttawa, Canada

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G'day Chris,> Have fun....That pretty well sums up my approach to simming.... and I'm having a ball. :-lol I fixed my CD Rom drive problem.....turned out to be a faulty IDE ribbon cable. Changed the ribbon cable and now both CD ROM drives are functioning perfectly, but that made no difference to the loading of Fly! II. > but I fainted upon reading that you'd upgraded your PC, and have only just now come to and picked myself up off the floor!:-lol :-lol yeah nice one! But .. sit down a minute - don;t want you getting hurt. I also upgraded ( well changed my operating system) to Win XP-Pro. Not only that but purchased the CD of TrueSpace 4.3 (only US$19.99 from Caligari) and added your 3ds to s3d converter. I haven't yet tried the converter yet but I don't anticipate any problems :-) Along with all the other excellent freeware tools for Fly! II I'm all set up for some serious hobby time. :-)This WILL be my last upgade. Fly! II and Vista are like east and west so notwithstanding all my other issues with "DRM" and "content protection" I see no reason.Everything I've done is to get the best performance I can out of Fly! II. .......... unbeliveable performance, obscene is the word that first springs to mind. I can't explain but how can the frame rate in FPS exceed the monitors refresh rate in Hz. I other words how can I have an FPS of 400 when the monitor refreshes at only 70 Hz. Does that mean the monitor only actually displays every 5th or 6th frame? Just curious.????I hope you are getting a good night sleep these days and that your family had a great festive season and wish you all the best for 2007Cheers,Roger

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> I haven't yet tried the>converter yet but I don't anticipate any problems :-)You don't?!? Are you new around here? :-lol>I can't explain but how>can the frame rate in FPS exceed the monitors refresh rate in>Hz. I other words how can I have an FPS of 400 when the>monitor refreshes at only 70 Hz. Does that mean the monitor>only actually displays every 5th or 6th frame?Yes, exactly. The application can fill the frame buffer as often as it wants, but if the card only scans it and sends a new picture to the screen at 70Hz, then that's the true frame rate. But I can assure you that you aren't likely to have that problem with Legacy :-)>I hope you are getting a good night sleep these daysNot really, but thanks for asking :-) > and that>your family had a great festive season and wish you all the>best for 2007Thanks, same to you and yours.Chris WallaceOttawa, Canada

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Brian,I think if you are able, that if you can bring your ram up to 1 gb things generally work better. Good luck.

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Roger,I was wondering how your new computer build was going. I'm glad that things have turned out well. I think that 2 gb's of ram would be better because there are MONSTER scenery files available for Fly!2 and more ram makes that better. And the dual channl specification means that if you get a second dual channel ram stick of the same exact type then they will work together in synch and perform at a much higher level. There are some techies that manually adjust how page files are managed, how much disk memory is allocated to them and location, however I never touch that myself, I allow Windows to manage the page files. And you have plenty of ram so that you don't have to worry about that, and if you get 2 gb's of ram then managing page files will be the last thing you have to worry about. Page files come into play when you don't have enough ram and the computer uses the hard drive as virtual memory to cover the shortfall.Did you say you got a Core 2 Duo chip? That's awesome! Interestingly it runs extremely cool, Maximum PC ran it without any heatsink and it ran fine to illustrate how cool it runs. But I definitely would not suggest anyone run it themselves without a heatsink.Your computer sounds incredible, great chip, good ram, Raptor HD.Re: Vista, I've been studying it, it manages RAM and cache differently than XP, it preloads as much as possible into the ram to overcome the slowness of the hard drive. But it needs LOTS of ram, 1 gb ram for bare functionality if you don't want to multitask, 2 gb's for household use and multitasking, and 4 gb's if you want to be a power user. As far as I know, a 32 bit application will only use 2 gbs of ram normally as in XP, however with Vista, if you've got 4 gb's of ram Vista will preload 4 gb's of data into the ram, so even if you're only running a 32 bit application it will still use 4gb's of ram to process it. There's a big downside to Vista however regarding how it audits hardware and may shut down the OS due to upgrading hardware requiring activation, and also it disables hardware to protect hi def premium content, which is unbelievable. If only they had spent all this energy and resources on developement of FSX, then perhaps it might have been 64 bit and fully multithreaded. Read this article on the subject, the author says that their motive is to monopolize distribution of premium content as Apple has done with music. At least XP works great, and they are extending support for it.http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.htmlGood luck with your new setup, it should be great. Tell us how it handles those heavy scenery addons, and perhaps give us a couple of screen shots!!!

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