Hans,I've read too all the descriptionsof 25 fps being the top quality... But I have to disagree here. I have personally seen the difference. Once I had "Vsync" set to On on my PC, and the monitor refresh set to 60 Hz; so the actual frame rate could be either 10, 15, 20, 30 or 60.And I could definitely tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps. It is easy to see it: just go on F5 view, and rotate the view. Then look at the rotating background... At 30 fps it's difficult to see it clearly; at 60, it's much more "real-life-like"... :-)Cristian

Sorry, Chris, can't reproduce the white lines as I returned the ATI 9800 and got instead the FX 5800.4xAA should solve the bleeding problem. But I guess there is a misunderstanding here: did you mean the panel bleeding itself out of shape completely or just the line that appears across the panel? I thought you meant the former and this was solved by limiting the AA to 4x or 4xS. If you meant the latter, then this line is present with both cards and in all AA settings.

Naji,I meant the latter, just the line accross the bottom of the 3d area bleeding into the panel (just a one pixel line).Chris E, ENGLANDhttp://www.circle-software.co.ukAvoid AGP texturing = Better Performance ;)

Cristian,It might be nice, but it isn't essential. Like Hans said, 25 fps is perfect for flight simulations. You just need the necessary processing power to make sure that the framerate diesn't fall below this, even at maximum detail levels and in dense, built up areas.Anyway, a new PC for me would enable me to land at my Ranger Creek without jerky graphics :-)Chris Low.

Naji,I tried using 6xS FSAA with my GeForce 3 Ti 200, and I saw the "bleeding panel" effects that you describe. However, I assumed that it was simply because my graphics card could not cope with this level of anti-aliasing. Maybe it's FU3 that can't cope ?Chris Low,ENGLAND.

"can't reproduce the white lines as I returned the ATI 9800 and got instead the FX 5800."I hope you had a good reason for doing that, other than image quality and performance :)http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1779&p=16

Okay, it seems only the Voodoo5 5500 didn't display such a line across the panel with AA on. But we can't stay with V5 any longer, can we? Got to move forward with the technology :)

Yes, Chris. The bleeding of the panel seems to happen with both brands of cards, ATI and nVidia, if AA is above 4x or 4xS. I now use 4x only, for both FU3 and FS2002, with no problems of bleeding. This problem even happened in FS2002 at the higher values of AA!

Let's just say that the ATI 9800 caused two of my older favorite games (both Looking Glass :): FU2/3 and Thief), it caused them to display some funny things: in Thief, you would notice Garrett (that is the thief if you're not familiar with the game) to run instead of walk, and it caused white lines in the water in FU3. With FX 5800, there seems to be more compatibility with the older titles, at the expense of speed. But whether in FS2002 or FU3, the speed we're already at is quite high :), so there isn't that much loss here. Quality of image seems to be almost the same.

I have no problems with FU2/3. Don't know about Thief but did you report the problem to ATI? They have a page where you can fill bug reports and they would have fixed it in the next driver.If you upgraded from an older videocard to the 9800, you must make sure that you completely uninstall the drivers for the old card.

Naji,You actually get a noticeable reduction in speed when changing from a 9800 Pro to an FX 5800 ? I have seen reports that the new GeForce FX card isn't all that Nvidia cracked it up to be, although I have also heard that the FX 5900 Ultra is the business ! :-)Chris Low,ENGLAND.

The 5900 Ultra is really all that the 5800 Ultra SHOULD have been. If you check Nvidia's homepage (http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?PAGE=desktop), you'll find they have completely removed all references to the 5800Ultra - in Nvidia's eyes, there never was a 5800 or 5800 Ultra :DIf I were to buy a videocard now, I would still get a 9800 Pro over a 5900 Ultra because of the higher quality FSAA, but the 5900U is also a good buy and slightly faster than the 9800 Pro. Both are a bit expensive though.

Jimmi, hadn't thought of reporting Thief problem to ATI. The lines in FU3 weren't that bad, but when I saw how Thief got affected too, I decided to exchange the card. I take care to always uninstall a driver and install the standard VGA driver before upgrading, so I don't think a conflict in drivers was the reason.If the 5900 appears fast in the market here, maybe I'll be able to convince the store to exchange the 5800 for that one as well; either they'll appreciate my regular standing with them and go along with my request, or they'll blacklist me for good :-lolChris, the speed difference between the 9800 and the 5800 is noticeable, but like I said above, we're already at a higher speed level with both cards that for me the difference isn't anymore that important.