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Hello all,Been away from FU3 for some time now, and although I do enjoy X-Plane and FSX (when I'm not developing stuff for them!) I, like many others, feel drawn towards FU3 again.So, last night I installed FU3 on a system here at home. I remember from my last experiences with it that frame rates and overall performance were fairly good in all but cloudy/overcast type weather (which is the weather I like the most), so was suprised to find that I still get frame rates bumping along around the 10fps level in these conditions on the following system :-Pentium 4 3.0Ghz with Hyperthreading512mb RAMATI 9600 SeriesA fast Hard DriveWindows XP/DirectX 9.0cAlthough by no means a powerful system (I have a number of others I may try FU3 on too, much more powerful than this) I expected to see a marked improvement in frame rates in poor weather compared to the last systems I ran it on. It's fair to say though that the above system does run other games and sims pretty well, it's just FU3 in bad weather it struggles with.So, this begs the question, what system WILL run FU3 in bad weather at at least 20-25fps ? If any ? Or is it it a case of the way it's programmed and optimized (or not as the case may be) that's limiting it ?Is anyone using or can anyone point out a system that will run it at 20fps absolute min under any weather ?Cheers for reading, love FU3 but want better performance! I'm even prepared to get a new system just for FU3 if I know it'll run better.In the mean time, when I get chance, I'll copy it on to a few other systems to see how they perform.Edit: I forgot to add that I have installed the UK Patch to V2.0 and I have tried three flt3.cfg file; The default (out of the box) one, Robert Driscolls (from the avsim library) and one I kept from my last system when I had it installed. None of them really improve frame rates from 8-12 in bad weather. :-(_______RegardsChris Ehttp://www.circle-software.co.uk/php/html/images/logo.gifVisit http://www.circle-software.co.ukHome of X-Plane Photographic Scenery : England & Wales

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Hi Cornclose,With my NVIDIA GEForce 8600 GT , Windows XP/DirectX 9.0cIntel Dual core 2.13GHz, 2048MB RAMBad weather fps:12 to 20nice weather fps:30 and morefor me it's ok :-):-wave Andre

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Thanks for the info Andre. I guess there is something inherently limiting FU3 in producing higher frame rates in bad weather. Either that or the code as is doesn't scale very well, and we'd need 10GHz CPUs before we get 25+ in ALL conditions.I did a search here for 'performance' and 'fps' etc but didn't find many with ultra modern systems to gauge the performance against. I found one user with an overclocked 4Ghz Core 2 system though, I wonder what frame rates he gets on that ? Have there ever been any systematic tests or benchmarks carried out to try and determine which settings yield the best frame rates whilst still maintaining good visuals ?I also found lots of other interesting posts re scenery development and conversion of MSFS photoscenery packages. I know this is possible. :-)If any of you would like to contact me off list about this then feel free._______RegardsChris Ehttp://www.circle-software.co.uk/php/html/images/logo.gifVisit http://www.circle-software.co.ukHome of X-Plane Photographic Scenery : England & Wales

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It is control F in clear weather I get between 31.3 and 32.6. That is in a renegade. In stormy weather it is between 8 and 11.

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Sorry for got to mention. i have a very old system. i am getting a new system at chrostmas (dualc core etc).Current:Pent3 730mhzIntegrated graphics168,012KB of RAmwin 2000Anything else you would like to know.Oh yeah ctrl R is for resolution.

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Hi Colin,I think that might confirm my fears - you don't get the performance improvements that you might expect with FU3. Most if not all other games and sims would improve from 10-12fps on your system to something much more noticably better with a faster system.As it is, I'm shocked that your PIII 730Mhz gives the same frame rates as my PIV 3.0Ghz. I think we already knew the video card and RAM make little real difference to FU3. This really is strange and it's something I've not seen with any other game/sim.I suppose the main reason that I was looking at FU3 again was my assumption that it would run at silly (high) frame rates at max settings on modern hardware, but alas this is looking more likely not to be the case. :-(_______RegardsChris Ehttp://www.circle-software.co.uk/php/html/images/logo.gifVisit http://www.circle-software.co.ukHome of X-Plane Photographic Scenery : England & Wales

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I seem to recall a comment by a member here of getting 60+ FPS in any weather. i do not know if they knew how to check though. My suspicion is this that the new config file most of us have is preventing a higher FPS. I am goign to find out. i just need to find the original config.

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I just done a quick test with the new config and have lloked at the old config. i think the probelm is the date this config was made FU3 was not designed to handle a dual core so will only use one, and the fact it was released for pent 3 processors may be the rpoblem. in that config is something we have to crack to get good FPS.

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Hello there.Please have i mind that the "written code" for FU3 was initially made for FU2 back in 1994-1995 with some updates for the fu3 software 1999.Even with todays computers and a lot of "ram" the code itself will not receive the new computer hardware input, and will just run to the edge what is written in the code.There was a lot of complains, and forum discussions with the folks at L.G. studios just after the release of FU3 about framerates etc, but they refused to go back with tecnology of the time.They new what was coming, a lot of new better hardware to improve the framerates and a better experience of the sim.That's true, but we are still stuck with an old written code never rewritten for todays software/hardwareThe company went down, and also the 3dfx company (VOODOO 3DFX videocards).we are all stuck with the old code, and some not updated framerates in bad weather.Take care.Lars Peter. :-wave

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There is a lot of weight in the flt3.cfg argument. I just removed my flt3.cfg and allowed FU3 to recreate a new one. The one it's created has almost nothing in it now, only a few dozen entries to save the options from the options screen - in other words it has far less active stuff in it than the default out-of-the-box config file.Frame rates are vastly improved, even when I start to put the sliders back to the right in the options screens. So there are some parameters in this file which are crippling the frame rates even on relatively modern hardware. More investigation is needed of course, but if anyone knows of some investigation in this department that's already been carried out, please let me know to avoid duplicating effort! :-)_______RegardsChris Ehttp://www.circle-software.co.uk/php/html/images/logo.gifVisit http://www.circle-software.co.ukHome of X-Plane Photographic Scenery : England & Wales

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The best "bad" weather for framerates in FU3 is probably a warm front. That produces the misty, low visibility conditions that look very attractive on the ground (or at VERY low flight levels). I can run FU3 comfortably in these conditions, even with 4xFSAA and 8xAF enabled, all sliders slammed to the right, and SanFran 2006 installed.However, when there are lots of textured clouds and heavy rain, the framerate drops like a stone.AMD Athlon 64 3200+1GB PC3200 RAM256MB GeForce 7600GT AGP

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Thanks Chris. Oh dear, you mean it gets worse ?! I've been using the default 'Warm Front' weather as a test, at a particular airfield with a particular aircraft etc.The good thing about FU3 though is that you really can change one thing at a time to gauge the effect - it loads so quickly. If you were to do this in FSX it would take you years!_______RegardsChris Ehttp://www.circle-software.co.uk/php/html/images/logo.gifVisit http://www.circle-software.co.ukHome of X-Plane Photographic Scenery : England & Wales

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I think I know the issue, just not how to sort it.In a .cfg file somewhere in the files we can find out how to make it benefeit dual cores etc. FSX is haveing this problem and people are starting new cfg's over on that sim because FSX wont use dual core without service packs.I am gonna look over these .cfg files properly this project may take time. And i cant even gurantee it as time well spent.

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Hello ChrisAbout two and a half years ago on this forum, we were kicking around the same general topic. I ran across a reference to a program of yours called Sync FS - another member had it, but the terms prohibited him from uploading it to the Avsim library. I tried contacting you at Circle about it, but never seemed to get through, as I heard nothing back. Could you tell us something about it, and whether it might be useful in increasing frame rates? Thanks.-Seadog

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Hi Seadog,I'm afraid I never got any emails from anyone that referred to this. They were probably killed by spam filtering as I get so many emails these days.Anyway, I remember Sync FS (I think I wrote a later version called FS File Performance Utility - FSFPU for short). I did indeed write it for FU3 primarily, but it was useful for other sims too. Rather than it solving frame rate issues it did help (at the time when hard disks were considerably slower) with stutters and blurries (FU3 not loading the higher res MIP maps in the scenery quickly enough). It was written for Windows 98 but I recall doing some limited testing with Windows 2000 aswell.Of course the idea has caught on since then, with numerous companies releasing specialist defragging programs, notably O&O software, but I suppose the idea I had back then was new and my utility perhaps was a first. Here's the readme from it :-http://www.circle-software.co.uk/utilities/FSFPU/Readme.htmThe release version was v1.13, but I notice I have version 1.14 on my projects archive now - no idea what's changed. You're welcome to try it if you wish._______RegardsChris Ehttp://www.circle-software.co.uk/php/html/images/logo.gifVisit http://www.circle-software.co.ukHome of X-Plane Photographic Scenery : England & Wales

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Hi Colin,I'm affraid it's not quite as simple as that - for any application to make full use of more than one CPU, it has to be specially coded. The only things that will benefit from dual (or more) cores are things called 'threads'. Each process on Windows is made up of at least 1 'thread'. Most applications however usually have many more threads than this in execution - but the problem is that most of these threads are sat idle for most of the time, waiting on a response from another thread in the same process (or from other Windows components) before they can carry on.The net result of all this is that FU3, and pretty much any other flight sim, will have all of it's main rendering process in one thread, so it can never use more than one core at the same time.The reference to FSX using multiple cores was a new feature introduced in SP1 and further refined in SP2 (ie. the Acceleration Pack). But again FSX does not use more than one core for most of the main rendering tasks it has to perform, but rather it uses multiple cores for other background tasks such as scenery and texture loading, and in creating the geometry for this. This does translate into a smoother (and potentially slightly higher frame rate) experience in FSX.There are config items in FSX which allow the end user to 'lock' FSX to only use certain core(s) in a multicore system, which is actually generally a very bad thing, but I won't go into the detail of why this is so at this time.One thing I have noticed (at least on my PIV system) is that FU3 runs better when Hyper Threading is disabled (Hyper Threading was the fore-runner to todays true multi-CPU systems) so if any of you have a H/T system, I'd recommend that you at least try FU3 without it enabled. On my PIV system I gained an extra 1-2fps (measurable and repeatable).Then, earlier today I had a thought. Since FU3 was coded in 1999 (at the very latest, it was surely born somewhat earlier than that) it would not have been compiled to use any of the newer features in the more modern processors, such as 3DNow! or SSE/SSE2 etc. So I've been examining the disassembled code and there may be a possibility to patch some of it's floating-point calculations to use SSE instructions which are native to all PIII and later Intel (and AMD) CPU's. Whether this translates into a frame rate increase would remain to be seen. Watch this space... :-)_______RegardsChris Ehttp://www.circle-software.co.uk/php/html/images/logo.gifVisit http://www.circle-software.co.ukHome of X-Plane Photographic Scenery : England & Wales

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Thanks very much, Chris, for satisfying my curiosity about Sync FS with that link to the Read Me. You certainly were breaking fresh ground with it. I've just begun using the similar file name ordering function in O & O Defrag, just recently acquired, on a test setup of FS9 on an older computer, with lots of scenery and mesh add-ons, and am just about to give it a first test run. Even more promising is Ultimate Defrag by DiskTrix, authored by the publisher of Computer Pilot magazine, which is said to do all that O & O does, plus allow files to be located on any precise area of the hard disk platter one chooses. My next test, therefore, will be to place the files on the outer sectors using that newer program. Once I am satisfied with that, it will be time to install other programs and apply the lessons to them on my new primary machine with a Core2Duo E6750 and 4 GB of RAM.And thanks for offering the program itself. The two I have seem sufficient for the purpose at this time.Doug, a/k/a Seadog

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Success!I've found some vectorizable FPU instructions in FU3 (not many though) and I've rewritten them to make them use SSE Vector Extensions. I now have a patched FLIGHT3.EXE which yields about 1-2fps increase on my PIV. Any performance improvement is likely to be small unless the system you're currently running FU3 on is particularly poor with FPU calculations.Most AMD CPU's typically had faster floating point units than Intel CPU's (which was primarily why Intel designed the SSE instructions) so on some (particularly AMD) systems you might actually see a reduction in performance.In any case, if anyone would like to try it, drop me an email as it's something which shouldn't be released publicly (yet) for a variety of reasons._______RegardsChris Ehttp://www.circle-software.co.uk/php/html/images/logo.gifVisit http://www.circle-software.co.ukHome of X-Plane Photographic Scenery : England & Wales

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Hi Chris,are you using W32Dasm for this job ? In bad weather, the water drop simulation will take a lot of resources too.:-wave Andre

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Hi Chris, thanks for the link, it's looking very good :-)Just installed and started FU3.Well need more time to do something useful. With WinDasm I have tried to locate the AI generation loop during the start - but failled :-(Will try again with this tool :-)With WinDasm I located the processing on an INI file and params of the command line, nice for LG developer but not more.now first back to finish the Antonov 2 first:-waveAndre

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