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Guest wtsapchy

Freezing AI aircraft

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Hi all,I read that RC would freeze other AI aircrafts while you are about to perform take off or landing. Now, I have one problem with this. I was following a default AI plane to the take-off runway in CYYZ. The AI plane hold short of the active runway and I stopped behind it. One minute later, I saw a 747 landing. Well, everything was fine except that after the 747 has turned off the runway, the default plane continued to hold short there. I thought there might be another plane landing, but no. I see nothing in the sky, nothing in the runway. For the rest of 5-7 minutes, I waited but the AI plane simply did not move. No other planes in the sky or in the runway. Was this AI plane frozen by RC ? What's the problem, then ?DanielVHHH

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Hi Daniel,It's possible RC froze the 747 in front of you. Without a log it's impossible to say. If you to try and replicate the problem then do this please...launch rcv4click debugload the .plnclick start rcfly, duplicatezip up and zip the .log file to jd@jdtllc.comAlternatively, you can zap any Ai aircraft by downloading and installing the Traffic Toolbox from Microsoft http://www.microsoft.com/games/flightsimul...sdk.asp#traffic Cheers,

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Hi Ray,I am sure I can duplicate the problem. Every time there is an AI aircraft in front of me, I will be indefinitely held up by this plane freezing at the runway entrance point. I have just tried a flight from KBOS to KJFK and held up for about 20 mins near entrance to runway 33L until I quit RC. I watched 4 planes landing at runway 33L. Each landing is separated by about 5 mins. There's plenty of time for tower to clear the AI aircraft in front of me to take off. I'll send the log to JD and report back here.DanielVHHH

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Hi Daniel,If you're getting this problem on a regular basis then something is probably wrong with the runway data RC4 is reading. Does this happen at one airport or at many?As you mentioned KBOS I wonder if you're using the excellent freeware package. In any case I suggest you run 'Rebuild Scenery DB'. The runway start points are probably wrong and RC doesn't recognise you as being at the hold short point.Cheers,

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Hi,I have the same problem as Daniel already mentioned. I will try to rebuild the scenery DB and see if that helps.I have another problem with freezing aircrafts.During approach RC freezes flying aircrafts around me. Not all only a couple of them. any suggestions? ThanksConstantin

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Hi Constantin,RC4 slows or speeds up aircraft around you when on finals to keep them away from you. They shouldn't actually stop flying. The alternatives probably aren't worth thinking about ;-)RC4's database is built for default FS9 scenery so any 3rd party airports that are slightly displaced will cause problems until a d/b rebuild.Cheers,

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Hi Ray,Still no luck to take off after running Rebuild Scenery Database. The problem is not airport specific. I did three flights today, departing from CYYZ - default scenery, KBOS - addon scenery and LIML - another addon from ISD, after scenery rebuild. In all cases, I was stuck by some frozen AI aircrafts either at runway holding point or at the runway threshold. They are basically frozen and did not move. RC appeared to know these AI planes. At LIML, I was following two AI planes all lining up to take off at 36R. Tower told me I was no. 3. The problem was the no.1 never took off. I tried to ignore these AI planes and taxi to the runway, but was immediately scolded by Tower. Then, I aborted take off, contacted ground and tried again. I made a big round in LIML and when I approached the runway holding point, the no.1 and no.2 were still there, dead frozen. The only way I could take off was to lower the traffic density until the AI planes in front of me disappeared. Then, RC was back to normal. Wish JD could look at this. I have traffic density set to 60% in all three flights. DanielHong Kong

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Hi Daniel,Hmmm, very strange that you get the problem at multiple airports. This is not something that's been reported before.All I can suggest is you create a log and send it to JD as detailed further up this thread.Cheers,

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Hi Ray,I have already sent one debugged log to JD. I'll report back here. Just want to know when you were cleared to taxi to runway, do you have AI planes still moving around in the airport, i.e, at what point does RC start to freeze their movement. I repeated my KBOS to KJFK flight again and again. Very strange, sometimes, the AI planes in the whole airport appeared dead frozen when I started RC, i.e. not one single moving AI plane in sight and I could take off as usual because there was no AI plane moving in front of me and blocked my way. But sometimes, the airport appeared normal, i.e., some AI planes were taxiing, landing or taking off. They appeared normal when my plane was still parked in gate, no freezing. At one time in LIML, while still follwing an AI plane to the holding point, I could still see an AI 737 taking off. However, it was always the few AI planes immediately in front of me that were dead frozen when they reached the holding point. Hope this help !!DanielVHHH

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Hi Daniel,<>It's quite normal to see other Ai aircraft taxiing, landing and taking off whilst you are taxiing to the active runway. RC4 will freeze some Ai aircraft when you are cleared for take-off and then release them once you're airborne. Inbounds will not be frozen and it is possible that traffic that landed on a parallel runway and is taxiing to the gate may cross your runway during your take-off roll. The reason we don't freeze those is because we could freeze them whlst they're on your runway so a decision was taken by JD to keep those aircraft moving.<>Remember that many of those aircraft at gates will be 'sleeping' until they're due to depart at their allotted time. When you first start RC and before tuning to ATIS just sit at the gate and watch what goes aon around you. There should be plenty of movements.<>LIML is a freeware airport and I have that scenery too and don't get any problems. All these problems point to runway end positions being incorrect and hopefully JD will confirm that when he's examined your log.Can you reproduce the problem at the hold short point and provide a screenshot? It might help. Remember to identify your own aircraft please.Thanks,

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Hi Ray,Thanks for your reply. I just replicated the same problem again for a flight from LIML to LIRF, and took some screenshots while being held up at the runway holding point. I have the log debugged, too. Ever since I came across this problem, I had every RC flight debugged and I have quite a few of these logs by now if JD wishes to examine. I'll wait for replies from JD since I have already sent him a flight log from KBOS to KJFK. Meanwhile, AVSIM only allows 150KB file upload and the screenshots are about 160 Kb each (jpg files). Can I zip them and send them to you by email ?DanielVHHH

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Hi Daniel,Feel free to send them to me at RayProudfoot@BTInternet.com.JD has quite a lot going on his his private life at the moment but I'm sure he'll repond when able.Cheers,

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Hi Ray,I have sent one zip file to you containing 5 screenshots, a brief event log, RC's debugged log and the flightplan. This scenario is a 100% sure to replicate the problem. Everytime I departed at about 1530 hrs zulu at LIRF, I would came across a few AI taxiing to the runway. The same problem repeated and repeated !!!! Tower, I want to take off, please clear my way !!!!DanielVHHH

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Hi Daniel,I have the files - thanks. I'll fly this route and see what happens to me.Cheers,

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I've been sitting behind an AI bird frozen while holding for takeoff at PHNL for about 10 min. Did the same thing to me a few hours ago taking off from PANC.Running the traffic slider down to 0% kills them off and allows departure, but there's clearly something bad happening with RC4's interaction with them...the AI birds are being frozen, and RC4 is then waiting for them to move, creating a gridlock.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

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Hi Bob,I'm not disputing what you're seeing but this element of RC4 was tested thoroughly during many months of development. What could be at fault are faulty AFCADs that have the hold short points missing or incorrectly placed.I'm investigating Daniel's problem at LIML right now. Once I've established if I can reproduce the problem I'll come back and possibly ask you to supply the AFCAD for PHNL.Cheers,

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If you downloaded FSUIPC you should also have Traffic Look. Open this in its seperate window after FS is running and look at both ground and air AI to see if it gives any info about AI that might have any bearing on the AI stalled queue. At high traffic setting look for a "string-of-pearls" on final.I have also had a situation where when opposing taxiways were across a threshold for runway entry and AI were held short across from one another, the AI anticollision system in FS refused to let either move just as if they were nose-to-nose on a taxiway. I just eliminated in AFCAD one of the opposing taxiways and added another start point further up the runway at another taxiway just beyond this one. That cured that problem.

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Hi Bob,I've just tried to reproduce Daniel's problem at LIRF but everything worked as it should.Can you attach the AFCAD for PHNL please and I'll see if I can reproduce the problem. Please provide wind direction and departure runway in use.Are you using default AFCADs or third party ones?Cheers,

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Hi Ray,Thanks for your test! But I really do not understand why this only happens to my scenery. I believe you also use the freeware LIRF from ISD. What is your traffic density ? Why would the AI birds in front of you take off normally and those in front of me just got frozen ? If you would notice from my screenshots that I send you, one AI GA and one AI jet disappeared after waiting at the holding point awhile. Clearly, something happened which created a gridlock and so these AI birds disappeared. If I recalled correctly, FS would, by default, make AI planes disappear if they block each other's way and creat a gridlock for more than 5 mins so as to prevent AI planes from queuing up in major taxiways and clotting ground traffic. The frustrating truth was these AI birds behaved normally if my plane was parked at gate. It was only my presence in their vicinity and near the runway holding point that caused the frozen problem.I also turned on Flightkeeper's 'Live Watch' map in my WideFS PC which basically allowed me to look at all AI birds movement on ground and in the air around the airport area. The last time I was stucked near runway holding point at LIRF, there was no 'chain of pearl' in sight near the airport airspace. The 5 screenshots that I sent you, which lasted for more than 20 mins of me queuing near runway holding points, there was not one AI plane landing in sight. Clearly, the traffic was not blocked by incoming landing AI birds. I ran that makerwys.exe and have RC scenery rebuilt everytime before I started RC flight. Whatelse could I do to this Tower to get my plane airborne ? Can anyone out here, in your next RC flight, simply increase your traffic density and see if you would come across this same problem. Hope someone could help !DanielVHHH

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Hi Daniel,Sorry, I'm at a loss as to why it works for me and not you. I can only think it was due to the AFCAD. I sent you mine privately. Have you tried that yet? If it solves the problem then it was your AFCAD.Let me know how you get on.BTW, there's no need to run the scenery d/b update each time you start RC - only when you install or remove scenery.Cheers,

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Hi Ray,Thanks for your hardwork ! Okay. Just tried your AFCAD. Here's what I did :1. Rename my original AF2_LIRF_Full.blg to AF2_LIRF.old. No blg extension ensured.2. Copy yours to my scenery folder.3. Run makerwys.exe. Rebuilding r4.csv done.4. Start FS9. Same time, same gate same lds 767.5. Start WideFS, ASV and Flightkeeper at client PC.6. Finally, start 'Show AdvDisplay Text' and RC when all the above programs worked normally.7. Rebuild scenery database. Everything was normal.8. Click Debug, load flightplan and start RCv49. ATIS, CD, Ground. Everthing was normal.10. My plane followed one MD81 AI to 34L runway holding point.11. I was told to monitor Tower on the way to holding point. Tower frequency was tuned.12. MD81 reached holding point at GMT 1540 hrs.13. Waited till GMT 1550 hrs. No AI birds landing, no movement of MD81. Dead silent, dead frozen. Screenshot taken.14. 'Live Watch' map in Flightkeeper monitored. No chain of landing AI seen. A few AI birds found but were far away from LIRF.15. RC quitted.Another zip file was sent to you containing one screenshot, the same flightplan and the debugged log.

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Hi Daniel,Thanks for posting your actions. Nothing appears out of order although you didn't need to run MakeRunways separately from Rebuild Scenery d/b.Looking at the screenshots you've sent me I noticed the aircraft type is shown against the Ai aircraft label rather than their flight numbers. I'm wondering if this might be the problem especially as it happens at more than one airport.Can you open FSUIPC and go to the Miscellaneous tab and change the entry for 'Set TCAS id String from' to Flight please. I assume iyou have it set to 'model'?Just make that one change and report back please. Can you confirm if landing aircraft were referred to by their callsigns correctly? I'm determined to get to the bottom of this.Cheers,

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Hi Ray,I checked the FSUIPC. The entry in 'Set TCAS id String from' was already 'Flight'. I also selected 'show aircraft tail number' in FS9 traffic menu which I had not done so before. Then, started a flight from LIRF again. The same gridlock near holding point runway 34L happened. A screenshot was sent to you. I was the First Choice 767.I've observed the AI movement at LIRF and by cross referencing to Flightkeeper 'Live Watch'. I can confirm that they were 100% in consistence and in order. After starting RC and while parting at the gate, landing and taking off at 34L were normal. AI birds stopped and waited at holding point, lined up then took off.I have also done a couple of flights and spent quite a coonsiderable hours observing when these AI birds would freeze with respect to my position. Well, the birds were always normal when I was at parking gate. While taxiing to holding point, I had tried deliberately giving way to some AI birds and stayed where I was at some taxiway junctions until they reached holding points. They waited, lined up and took off as usual, too. At one time, while my plane was more than two-third of the taxiway to 34L holding point, some birds at the holding point could still took off. It was only when I was very close to 34L runway holding point, and apparently most of the time, right before I made that final 90 degree right turn to the holding point, that the AI birds ahead of me, either they were already waiting at the holding point without another AI lining up at runway 34L, or they had already lined up at 34L, then the dead silent freezing occurred. The freezing was also not AI specific. It happened to default AI as well as my installed ProjectAI planes. It happened at default scenery and addon scenery. The freezing appeared distance specific. My close proximately to the AI birds was one cause. That's the best account I could give you.I am also determined to get it fixed. I have been using RC since it was freeware so many years ago and never had encountered such a big problem like this one. Just give me any test flights you could think of and I'll try them. Thanks for your help, anyway.Regards DanielVHHH

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Hi Daniel,So you've established that without running RC4 Ai aircraft take-off as normal at LIRF and when you run RC4 they don't. Good. That points things at RC4.This is the info for LIRF runways extracted from r4.csv...LIRF,0070,41.800117,12.234652,14,69.500,10856,109.70,450,0.500,41.805054,12.252730,0LIRF,0161,41.846413,12.262883,14,161.770,12895,108.10,480,0.500,41.829964,12.269944,0LIRF,0162,41.814991,12.225887,14,161.770,12813,110.30,500,0.500,41.798161,12.233120,0LIRF,0250,41.809483,12.268912,14,249.500,10856,109.70,450,0.500,41.805054,12.252730,1365LIRF,0341,41.783096,12.239700,14,341.770,12813,108.90,500,0.500,41.798161,12.233120,1053LIRF,0342,41.814220,12.276699,14,341.770,12895,109.30,480,0.500,41.829964,12.269944,0I'd like you to open r4.csv (in the DATA folder) with NotePad (not Excel) and compare your data to mine. Pay particular attention to the latitude and longitude values. I suspect yours are going to be different to mine.What I'd also like you to do is plan a flight from a default airport - one that you have no 3rd party scenery for. Please advise if you get any problems there. I suggest you use a reasonably busy airport such as EDDF, KJFK, KORD if able.If you don't get the problem at a default airport then the problem lies with LIRF. Also try a flight from another airport you have 3rd party scenery for and tell me if you get problems there.Finally, please confirm you're running RC4 on the same PC as FS9 and not via WideFS on a separate one.Thanks.

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Ray,This same thing happened to me as well - but only once. (I slewed around the plane with the "mechanical difficulties" and took off.)At the larger Intl. airports in FS9 stay away from the main "active" runway like the Plague.Try a parallel runway near the GA parking areas, or even an entirely different runway heading if the winds are negligibleMost Bizjet pilots (with clients in a hurry) will not want to get bogged down waiting for some 757-200 to take off first anyway. Works for me!Captain Dad:

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