Just A Few Things

[jd 57]

i'm not sure why the clearance is given in the order it is given. but it's been 6+ years like that, and you're the first person that noticed it. or at least spoke up. thankswhat is the msa of san juan? better question, what does rc think the msa is for san juan? that may be the reason you're not descended any lower.i'm surprised you had the problem with runway 10. i'd like to see it.can you do the followinglaunch rcclick debugload the .plnclick start rcfly the .pln, duplicate the problem, and send me the log file, zipped to jd@jdtllc.comalso, it would be very useful, if you save me a rcd file, before you contact approach. you can do that by pressing the ; key, and specifying a name, or pressing (by default) ctrl-shift-; and let rc save the filethen zip up the .rcd, and the .flt and .wx file with the same name, and send it to me, with a description of what i'm looking for, and what i should do next (to see the problem)thanksjd

[downscc 1,327]

Clearance items (7110.65 para 4-2-1) lists order. Last item is frequency and beacon information listed together. I usually hear beacon code then departure frequency, but either way is in compliance."monitor tower" is used all the time at KIAH KHOU and KLAS to mention a few places I've flown recently. The local controller gets the handoff from ground and knows you're there. They are usually very busy and will call me when they are ready to. I really like hearing, "are you ready for immediate departure?" which rarely happens at KLAS.

[jd 57]

and you only hear monitor tower at larger airports (in rc terms, that means lots of runways). at other airports, you are switched directly to towerimmediate takeoff is a v5 item, and will be based on arriving ai distancesjd

[downscc 1,327]

<>Nice item. You might still add a little random position and hold (tower is waiting for departure), which happens occasionally.

[Guest AirForcePilot]

I've taken a few ATC courses at Embry Riddle as part of my degree in Professional Aeronautics. Regardless of what the 7110.65 says, the real world list departure frequency then transponder. I have never received an IFR clearance in RL in any other order then CRAFT. If JD is looking for as much realism as possible, then CRAFT is the order that should be used for picking up a clearance. I don't know about the regs or procedures in other countries but CRAFT is the standard in the U.S. I also haven't flown into any of the airports that you mentioned, but as far as Class B airports go I've flown in and out of KMCO, KTPA, KMIA, KIAD, KPHL, and KBOS and I've never been told by ground to monitor tower prior to reaching the runway. I'll take your word for it if its used elsewhere. Maybe in V5 it'll only be used at busy airports when the AI traffic is heavy. When you're the only aircraft taxiing to the runway, then I think ground should stay with you until you reach the hold short line. Just my thoughts. Hope everyone is enjoying their weekend.

[Guest AirForcePilot]

I didn't do a search on these so if someone already posted I appologize for posting a duplicate thread. Being a real world commercial pilot, we use the acronym CRAFT when picking up an IFR clearance. CRAFT = Clearance, Route, Altitude, Frequency, Transponder. RC gives out a clearance in this order: CRATF. I'm just wondering why it was designed that way. Another thing I notice thats not very realistic is how Ground tells you to monitor tower prior to reaching the departure runway. I've flown into hundreds of airports and can't remember a single time ground told me to do that. In the real world you contact tower when reaching the hold short line and do not leave tower after landing until you've cleared the active. I also had another problem today flying to San Juan from JFK. During my approach to San Juan, RC vectored me past the localizer for RWY 10, and then gave me a heading to fly to intercept.....the heading was 5 degrees short of what I needed to intercept. RC also only cleared me down to 12,000 ft and left me there.....even after they cleared me for the approach. I had to fly my own vectors to lose altitude and then put my plane on and intercept for the localizer. Thanks for any input. Have a great weekend.

[jd 57]

i listened to 10 clearances that i had laying around. there are real world recordings of real world clearancesout of those 10, only 3 of them specified the frequency before the transponder code. the other 7 gave the transponder first, then the frequencyof course you're right about the 7110.65 - i just happen to have it laying here on my desk.but there is a non technical question here. and is that is, do we make radar contact so sterile, so by the book, that we don't say "good day"? do we make the phrases per the book, or by what happens in the real world. we struggle with that every day. in the beginning, we tried to mirror what happens in the real world, and cut a few corners with the regs. we have slowly over the years and different versions, cleaned up some of that. no longer do you hear the pilot say "we'll do all that" after the long landing clearance. it is now read back word for word. that is an example of cleaning some of this up.since we can feasibly record every single departure procedure in existance, nor be able to keep them up to date, we simply say "via departure procedure". certainly not by the regs, but certainly out of necessity.i could go on and on and on. but i'd rather work on a future point release for a future version of flight simulator, and finish some GUI changes i'm making for version 5.i will make a note of your observation of monitoring tower when there are no ai around.jd

[Guest AirForcePilot]

Were the recordings you listened to from within the United States or abroad. If in the U.S. what airports are they from. My flight experience has, so far, been limited between Boston and Key West....and between Michigan and NJ. Hopefully I'll be flying to some new places soon =)

[jd 57]

all within the united states. i have no idea where they were. doesn't really matter.jd

[brucek 38]

Hi Ian,I agree on the CRAFT, that's all I've ever heard. One thing that controllers always do is repeat tings in the same sequence, so pilots know what is coming next. Like the clearance for the approach- "Cessna 417ED, you're 4 miles form ALIKE,.....". The first few times I heard that I was overload, then after a while it always comes in the same sequence and is very predictable.On the contact tower- both here at KDEN and at KLAX, airraft are (while taxying to the active hold short line) told to "monitor tower on ...". When you do, tower is often talking with someone else, but when they want acknowledgment that you're there its "United 452,taxi full length", or "United 452, can you accept an intersection departure at Delta?". The idea is that they don't want the pilot calling to tower, just cutting that initial pilot to controller cold contact call saves them radio time for more important stuff.However, at KBJC (my home airport), it's maintain contact with ground until the run-up is complete, then call ground to say you're ready. Ground says "contact tower and I'll get your release". I think its traffic volume maybe.Bruce.