lwt1971

So anyways 🙄... to add to F737Max's post, here are some from those screencaps and descriptions shared on Fenix's discord (their new custom engine modelling is unprecedented and simulated to crazy depths it appears per the deep dive video, so only makes sense I guess they'd match that with weathering effects that are physics-driven 🙂 ) Boarding the aircraft again, we can see the winglight not just illuminating the mighty/mini V2500, but also correctly casting shadows on the intake and the ground. This is part of the new shadow-casting lights in Block 2, a first in MSFS: (interesting bit where he talks about the shadow-casting lights being a first in MSFS) Diving into the cockpit we start to see some of the new night environment improves. A better dome light, new LCD simulation that makes flying at night a LOT nicer, and some subtle improvements across the materials: A proper close up of the night experience in Block 2. The combination of shadow-casting lights, new integral lighting system, and LCD simulation makes it feel like a whole new aircraft at night. Seriously cozy: A couple of close ups showing the engine in detail; everything from subtle panel deformation due to the heat cycling of the engine, to the dirt being pushed out of the panel seams by the air-stream in flight. You'll see this a lot around the new exterior in Block 2: physically accurate, physics-driven weathering. The dirt accumulates in the panel seams usually due to rain and water droplets capturing dust and dirt on the aircraft, and drawing it down with gravity until it reaches a seam. This dirt-filled-water is then pushed out of the seams by the high speed airflow in flight, leaving a streak in it's wake. Depending on where the dirt has accumulated, it may contain dust particles or even oil, which will leave a different surface deposit, with oil being a little more reflective and viscous, affecting how it streaks across the surface of the aircraft:

Yup that's exactly what they're doing for MSFS 2024 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPhScg_FINE&t=718s : Seb: "engine re-written for massive performance improvements, multi-threaded, all physics/aerodynamics on a different core than the main thread" And then in Helisimmer interview: https://www.helisimmer.com/interview/msfs-2024-helicopters-future-msfs-2020 Q (Sergio): All that makes a lot of sense. With more computational power, more stuff can be done. But I started to wonder about limits. How many cores can we eventually use for this? Sebastian answered that as well. A (Seb): So, we don't have currently a hard limit set, it's just the limit of the memory. At some point, it's gonna drop the performance, right? What we measure right now, and we're not finished optimizing, we're already at a four to five times performance increase. And I think we're gonna maybe get 10 […] you can easily add 10 times more surfaces, right? It's very quickly, right? And so, I think if people add 20 times more surfaces than before, well, then you may be gonna offload, you know, load the other threads. And the more you load, the more you take away compute power for the terrain, or other stuff, right? Which is using thread. And at some point, it's gonna have an impact. I don't think we're gonna set a limit. We're gonna limit ourselves, we're gonna have recommendations, but just like today, a third-party aircraft can do a lot of stuff. If it wants to load up the machines, it can. Memory can be a limit because that would crash. But performance, well... There's no limit. Also, the new aerodynamics is a lot cheaper on memory than before. Like, this is three or four times cheaper, right? In terms of memory footprint. Which is also necessary because otherwise, if you put more stuff, then you run into memory issues. So, we optimize that as well.

Nice!, they have not shown much of the visual fidelity improvements yet I believe right? Going to be interesting what's in the final B2 release. There is this post I guess: https://discord.com/channels/736572376967282769/736710909887643679/1191172782206222488 with various screenshots and descriptions

Of course I'm comparing something that doesn't exist yet.. but the video is not some high level summary, it is showing in-depth working stuff with a lot of commentary by Aamir.. so yes, based on *that*, I feel (like others, including IRL pilots) that the Fenix V2 as a total package will be far superior to what I remember when I used to fly the FSL in P3D.. it's an opinion. An opinion that could change obviously after I have the Block 2 in hand. If that opinion makes you take me less seriously, then sure go ahead 🙂 ... but all of this discussion started with your nonsense about those choosing the Fenix only doing so for trivial visual stuff like dirt accumulation and passenger seats, and then those choosing MSFS only doing so for visuals, etc etc (that definitely smacks of intellectual immaturity, an ignorance that is willful or otherwise, and/or is a pathetic attempt to push the usual narratives that fall flat on their faces). Clearly we disagree, let's move on.

Ya definitely sounds like it needs different values for those parameters than what the C172 uses. Hopefully after MS/Asobo update the SDK docs the aircraft devs can get to work on tuning these parameters for their birds.

Fair enough, and I'm going by my memory of the FSL and then going by the video shown by Aamir of course. All the engine simulation stuff shown is definitely higher fidelity than the FSL at least to me, the EFB also, and flight dynamics wise I'm going by FSL in P3D vs Fenix in MSFS (an FSL in MSFS could be equal/better). And all that combined with the visual superiority of the Fenix is what makes me say that.. of course the proof will be in the pudding once Block 2 is out. V1-Simulations too is already saying the Fenix will be the best A320 sim period given its depth of simulation shown in the video, and notably he's also used FSL and other birds extensively before. In any case like I said before, at least for me, not going to be in the least bit compelled to get the FSL A320 for MSFS if/when they release it while I have this Fenix Block 2 or a future update of it in hand.. FSL would be far better off to release the Concorde, A330 and/or non-A320 as their first bird(s) for MSFS 🙂

Hold on, was multi-threading optimization in the cards for SU15? I only know of memory use optimizations and glass cockpit avionics optimizations using the Coherent/Javascript tech stack (unless you mean thread optimizations around the latter, I don't recall the details). I know general multi-thread optimizations are planned for MSFS 2024 as Seb says here at the FSExpo presentation: https://youtu.be/VPhScg_FINE?t=718 (i.e. FDE/physics engine and CFD calculations, etc). That along with their push for thinner clients and off-loading more computing to the server-side is going to improve performance overall even more, and that's important to handle the increased/complex visual fidelity and physics coming in 2024.

Sorry but no.. Preferring MSFS over P3D does not mean it's because of visuals only (for example the on-rails feeling of flight in P3D makes it inferior to me since it is the FSX FDE after all.. and various more reasons I won't go into here since the mods don't like sim vs sim discussions), and in any case that's besides the point. The Fenix as it stands is still a very competent and in-depth aircraft simulation, and V2 Block 2 appears to be far superior to anything else out there including the FSL A320 I used to have on P3D (and I'm talking about various aspects of the aircraft like engine simulation, systems depth, FM, EFB, etc etc *and* of course visual fidelity). If you want to pick on the particular topic of multiple displays/monitor support as a main point and then say because of that P3D + FSL is better then sure (for those where that is a must-have) .. but when you try to cast those choosing the Fenix as doing so because of dirt accumulation or passenger seats, then it's kind of hard to take you seriously 🤷‍♂️. I realize it's a go-to talking point, but trying to cast the differentiating factors and advantages of MSFS, Fenix, etc as visuals only falls flat in the face of reality and facts, as MSFS and its high fidelity add-ons in their current incarnations clearly show.

Pretend that you're not Andrey and not under NDA and let loose on all your thoughts about MSFS 2024's flight dynamics improvements that you would love to see happen, in theory ... 😜 Ok, I tried hehe... in any case, if it's indeed you then welcome aboard, and so great that you're on the MSFS team! Looking forward to any future stuff that you *are* allowed to talk about.

It's still AccuSim, and it's "external" in the sense that it uses in-sim code frameworks (i.e. WASM modules) to implement their overrides and heavy customizations of the core MSFS FDE and systems. Initially on release for the PC the only truly external component was an executable for the sound engine, and now A2A is using the in-sim sound engine so therefore they can get everything onto the marketplace and XBox.

Ya it's a bit confusing, but as Dutch (of Milviz) reported above and also some others about the PMDG, it looks like a subset of the ground handling improvements benefits *all* aircraft? But to fully take advantage of all the ground handling improvements in SU15 the aircraft devs need to implement/enable and tune the 5 new FM parameters for their aircraft. At least that's what I'm getting.

I'd say three big ones, all equally eligible for most impactful improvement 🙂 1) Ground handling, 2) Performance, 3) G3X The ATC, traffic/AI, weather/snow, garmin 1000/3000/5000 improvements and other fixes I'll also gladly take hehe... also the multi-rotor support for helicopters.

Thanks Dutch, very interesting! So it sounds like based on your findings and what others are saying about the PMDG and other birds, all aircraft get *some* benefit even without using the new parameters in the flight_model.cfg?

Yup! Like many aircraft devs have said on these forums and elsewhere, MSFS offers various tools in the box for aircraft devs to flesh out their FMs... A2A, especially since they always had their own AccSim external framework for previous sims, chose to realize an even better version of it for MSFS, other devs like iniBuilds/FSReborn/etc have chosen to embrace the latest CFD tech in the MSFS FDE, and many others the regular modern FDE like COWS. All of these require tuning, customizations, etc using the core FDE tools of their choice to get the FMs just right for their particular aircraft. It certainly can be done very nicely as in COWS' and others' examples... all comes down to the aircraft developer and their skills/experience, and they're getting more and more experienced with the MSFS platform 3+ years on, so that's great. Now of course the FDE can still put up roadblocks to not getting that perfect experience.. ground handling was the biggest pain point in the MSFS FDE so far, and finally that's being addressed in SU15 (it was re-written for MSFS 2024 and partially backported to v2020 SU15).

I couldn't help but notice a @AnPetrovich liked my post above https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/642211-the-free-and-optional-dune-expansion-is-out/?do=findComment&comment=5066143 ... Andrey Petrovich, is that really you? 😀

Transplanting will be an interesting test so do let us know 🙂 I figure aircraft devs are going to need a bit of time to mull these over, and in addition to coming up with values best for their aircraft they might also probably need to "undo" or change specific handling they already put into their existing FMs to work with the old ground handling in the sim. I see that Raul (FSReborn) has already asked for the SDK doc updates for these 🙂 https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/t/missing-documentation-regarding-ground-contact-improvements/8211 ... As Matt said the SDK beta docs drop a few days after the initial beta release, so hopefully soon. Initial reports on the official forums: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/ground-contact-resolution-improvements/630251 https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/please-fix-the-ground-physics-friction-inertia-etc/455009/192 (old bug filing)

Uh oh, 320 Sim Pilot being very UnSerious ™️

Lol so you selectively pick on dirt accumulation, chipping paint, passenger seats and hold those up as differentiating factors for those who want the Fenix?? Right ok then 🤣... I'm going to go out on a limb and say that those of us who've used both FSL, P3D, Fenix, MSFS prefer the Fenix+MSFS combo because: a) well it's MSFS, b) Fenix V1 already was a very compelling in-depth simulation of the A320 ceo, and now with V2 Block 2 as articulated in this deep dive video just takes it to unprecedented levels that's going to make Fenix V2 + MSFS a far superior combo.

Any initial thoughts/reviews? 🙂

Hehe. These SU15 improvements and then SU16, the amazing Fenix Block 2 update, the coming birds like PMDG 777, iniBuilds A350/A380, FBW A380, and aircraft devs as a whole really getting going on their 2nd/3rd/etc tries and getting more experienced on developing for the platform, etc etc.. MSFS 2020 does indeed seems to be settling itself in a great place prior to MSFS 2024 dropping and shaking up the world again 🙂 ... but it will be an easier transition to 2024 for add-ons devs I think as opposed to learning everything anew as they had to with v2020. Exciting times indeed.

V1-Simulations just finished his stream and here are his thoughts/quotes on the deep dive video.. very interesting to hear from an IRL A320 expert and his various side insights, needless to say he was very impressed. Let's see later once he tries the update himself if his initial excitement holds. PA system - the PA system and the sounds being based on power use (APU vs main), location in aircraft, etc: "it's going to be really and more important than you think" - he likes all the nuances simulated - loves the configurability and ability to customize per livery EFB - "EFB looks much more snappy" - loves the system reset table in the EFB, custom runway intersection functionality, ability to send data/config/etc to MCDU, etc - "this is insane" Flight model - V1 asserted the importance of high-end hardware (sidestick/etc) in order experience the flight model properly - On Fenix's SDS: if this helps lesser hardware controllers then that's great, to feel more inertia/weight - "they're upping the bar for realistic reactivity with lesser controllers" - he's very interested by Fenix's comprehensive telemetry system and data collection to refine the FM and fly on the numbers (including flaps behaviour, drag/pitch, flare, etc) - "cool how it'll track the IRL aircraft's quirky VNAV, IRL it's not 100% accurate" External engine model - "crazy stuff", "basically you're flying a real airplane" - wowed by the 158000+ data points per engine variant they used (on live IRL airaft not just book values) - "so basically they now build engines and the aircraft, basically fenix is king :)" - "this is super cool stuff... I cannot believe all this is modelled" - amazed that they're simulating various IRL operational quirks of the IAE engines - "I don't have to bring my ipad to sim any more, so awesome they're including all these procudures for realistic failures practicing" - "fenix is a legend" - "this is wild" - "wild that is it's very dependent on aircraft orientation, and only one engine or both can get affected based on aircraft orientation, wind direction, speed, exposure, etc" - "the fact that they've simulated this.. i'm done.. i'm uninstalling all the other add-ons :)" Closing thoughts - "all the haters who gave Fenix a hard time for delays can go pound sand" - "this Fenix V2 Block2 update is going to be the most complex best A320 simulator ever seen" - "crazy that Fenix will have three airbus models that are basically real life" He was intrigued by the tease by Aamir about their custom engine model serving "future aircraft products" near end of the video.. I missed this easter egg bit too. Sounded like Aamir started off saying something and intentionally distorted with someone saying "naa" over it and then just mentioned the 321/319 ... Hmmm, here's the timestamp where Aamir says this: https://youtu.be/EDDPuaLgAnM?t=2529 (V1 felt Aamir started off with "sss.." which could be 737 and then he speculated it could be 737 max since ProSim has one)

Thanks Matt, are the new FM parameters documented in the SDK docs anywhere yet? Sounds like some of these are a binary choices for aircraft devs to enable or disable.. but I suppose some of the other five new parameters might need values tuned to the specific aircraft?

Ground Contact Resolution Improvements More accurate ground contact model. Optional soft ground collision model for tires / flexible gears. Enabled new soft gears on C172 and Cabri. New high accuracy physics system to enable vibrations and micro movements. Woohoo! For those of you good souls testing the beta, please provide any and all feedback on ground handling with the C172 🙂 TIA Really hope all the major 3rd party aircraft devs out there adopt these FM features/parameters quickly.

Not that it needs saying since we all know it by now, but given how we take so much for granted in MSFS these days.. so cool how due to WT, that the base sim can provide such deeply simulated avionics and a free framework for 3rd party devs to use and/or build on. Avionics so good that 3rd party devs like COWS and others who aim for high fidelity in their aircraft offerings can just pick & up and use the default avionics suite (and therefore decreasing the cost for us and also bring their product out to market faster). One of the most brilliant moves by MS, Jorg and team Asobo to bring WT into the fold!

Quite comical when all the Serious Simmers ™️ who just can't stand having their fake-planes-in-a-computer environment associated with these kinds of free optional add-ons (that they don't really need to install) come on here and whine 🤣 ... similar to those who can't stand that XBox and XBox users (who're all apparently the opposite of their serious-ness) are associated with MSFS 🙂