New to Flight Sims

[gwtkemble 0]

Hello,I am a new member to the avsim.net forums. I would like to take this time to introduce myself and explain why I joined and also to explain this post.My name is Gabe and I haven't played any hardcore simulation airplane games before. I would like it noted that I do OWN Microsoft Flight Simulator X: GE but I played it with, get ready, a game controller. I recently heard about Microsoft Flight and relished the opportunity to continue my meager experience at an easy level for flying. I downloaded the game and was pleasantly surprised at the game. The graphics are decent, though there are some stutterings, and the planes look good to me. The lack of content is a little surprising as is the price of the DLC. However, for what is free, I don't mind the game.Now I have noticed posts on this forum that are hating on the game in an extreme manner. Taking note of this I, a noob, have come to you to ask for help and advice. Here we go:1. Is Microsoft Flight worth playing without the additional content? I really like the Mustang but is it worth a go?2. Is Microsoft Flight bad for me? Will playing this game ruin my abilities for more "hard-core" sims and will this game make me less likely to enjoy those games?3. Should I buy a joystick or is a game pad useful enough for me for where I am at currently in my skills?4. What other flight sims would you recommend for me? Should I just stick to Microsoft Flight or are the better ones out there for MY style?I appreciate anyone taking the time to read this and for helping me with any thoughts, comments, or criticism (positive please).Regards,Gabe

Edited March 1, 2012 by gwtkemble

[ryanbatc 12,934]

1. I'm a hardcore flight sim addict and I like the free version of Flight. I'll probably buy the Hawaii pack eventually. The mustang DOES NOT have a virtual cockpit from what I read.2. LOL... FSX teaches a lot of bad habits if we're comparing to real world flying. You'll be fine.... Even I'm interested in the coin grabbing mission (which I totally hated on when the previews came out)3. Gamepad is fine I suppose. I've got lots of hardware from flying FSX but apparently Flight doesn't support toe brakes right now. You could always grab a cheap joystick, just make sure it has a HAT switch4. It really depends what you enjoy.... I recently bought Rise of Flight (WW1 combat sim) for $10 off amazon. It's really fun and has a solid community. Heck I'd even recommend FSX, maybe you'd be able to get into the hardcore aspects...Have fun!

[JonP01 104]

With respect to question 3, I have been using Logitech gamepads (with the two analogue joysticks) with various flight sims for a number of years now. This includes sims such as FSX, IL2, Rise of Flight and of course Flight. At no stage have I found them functionally to be handicap once I mastered their use - I can control a plane just as well this way as with a proper flight setup. The only reason I would suggest going to a more advanced hardware setup is if you wish for a more realistic feeling in terms of physically handling the controls. Obviously the gamepads are more akin to radio control flying whereas a proper hardware setup can emulate the main control layout of a real aircraft. Of course you may be aware the sky is the limit here too, constrained only by budget, space, imagination, etc.

[gwtkemble 0]

Thanks for the response Ryan. I will start looking into a cheap joystick. I am of the opinion that learning a joystick, as I take a few tentative steps into the game, can save me a lot of grief after I get used to only a controller. I think I might buy the Mustang for a little more variety even though I can't do the container missions. I will also check out Rise of Flight because I fell in love with a WW2 combat sim when I was 9 but I can't remember it now so maybe that game can fill the gap in my soul!Thanks for the insight into a controller Jon. I do like its simplistic controls as it allows me to not feel incredibly pressured at this stage. I wouldn't mind having a controller with feed back so I might switch to a joystick to get a more real feel. Hopefully I can meet a middle ground on price and space.

Edited March 1, 2012 by gwtkemble

[SpiritFlyer 987]

Hello Gabe,Welcome to AVSIM. Those questions can be answered a whole lot of different ways, and likely will be. Which answers you choose will be up to you. I hope Flight will be the start of a rewarding hobby for you, as it has to many here.Kind regards,

[Tom Wright 438]

Welcome, Gabe!Yes, as you've probably already seen there are a lot of mixed feelings within the community about it at the moment.I guess I would consider myself a hardcore simmer. I love procedural, complicated simulations like the PMDG aircraft and the FSLabs Concorde. Something to really get into. I learn a lot from them and get a lot of satisfaction flying them successfully following standard procedures.Answering your questions:1. I think the Maule is a nicely modelled aircraft, as is the Vans RV-6A included in the extra Hawaiian Islands pack. I don't like the P51 Mustang, only because they have not modelled a cockpit so it's only flyable from the outside. I'm afraid I don't get any enjoyment or immersion from this.2. No it's not bad for you at all. It's actually, despite what a lot of others are saying, is quite a good and realistic sim for flying small GA aircraft.3. I've not got a game pad and have not used one. I have always used a joystick for flight sims. I don't know whether it's just an issue with my joystick or if it's something wrong in the game but I find it's way too sensitive to even the tiniest inputs in pitch. Just gently pushing my joystick forward causes a downward lurch. Though, personally I'd say for more immersion I'd recommend you get a joystick, or even a yoke.4. At the moment I guess FSX is a more serious sim than Flight, and X-Plane even more so. It all depends on what sort of flying you want to do and where you want to do it really. If you're happy with Flight, there's no reason to search somewhere else!

[JonP01 104]

I wouldn't mind having a controller with feed back so I might switch to a joystick to get a more real feel

Just be aware at the present time that there is no force feedback support in Flight. This is one aspect that was both surprising to me as well as disappointing, as my Logitech F710 gamepad has the rumble feature which is excellent in FSX as regards feeling the pressure on control surfaces, etc.i would go so far as to say I find force feedback quite important for flight sims, as it gives tactile feedback to stall stituations (even when landing which can in many cases is actually a stall onto the runway) and gives feedback as to acceptable control pressures, trimming, etc.Hopefully force feedback support may come at a later date (you will get a force feedback jolt if you crash hard though!).

[gwtkemble 0]

From what I have seen so far is that a game controller is acceptable to play the game but the immersion factor is higher with a joystick. I know that must seem blatantly obvious to most sim players but for me it wasn't. Thanks for all the helpful replies. Since the majority use a joystick any thoughts or tips on a introductory joystick? It doesn't have to be fancy (though it can be if it helps me get better) but I don't want to break the bank to much since its my first one. Thanks for any help.

[Paavo 2]

I will also check out Rise of Flight because I fell in love with a WW2 combat sim when I was 9 but I can't remember it now so maybe that game can fill the gap in my soul!

If you indeed like WW2 era aircraft, then I challenge you to ditch Flight altogether and learn to master a true piston monster. For the price of Maule and P-51, you could get a really detailed P-40 from A2A:http://www.a2asimula...&products_id=47When bundled with AccuSim expansion for P-40, learning to properly fly the aircraft in all circumstances becomes an extremely rewarding experience, much more than flying through glowing circles. To get a sense of what flying really is about, see this demonstration of how to extend gear in case of hydraulic system failure: http://www.youtube.c...8KtJawTQ#t=610sWhat are you gonna do with Maule or cockpitless P-51? Fly around, collect coins? With P-40, you'll have your hands full flying a real airplane with all its quirks. Edited March 1, 2012 by Paavo

[Xpendable 0]

Regardless of what flight simulator you use, I would recommend buying either a flight stick or a flight yoke and also picking up some rudder pedals. It will most definitely add to the immersion. If you can't afford the rudder pedals now, get a stick or a yoke now and buy the pedals later.I also believe that you will learn bad habits from any and all simulators, but that's okay. You will unlearn those habits quickly enough if you do decide to take up real flight training, and then the simulators become a powerful tool. You will actually get better at the simulators with real world training. It's almost kind of funny how that works out.

[japascoe 98]

From what I have seen so far is that a game controller is acceptable to play the game but the immersion factor is higher with a joystick. I know that must seem blatantly obvious to most sim players but for me it wasn't. Thanks for all the helpful replies. Since the majority use a joystick any thoughts or tips on a introductory joystick? It doesn't have to be fancy (though it can be if it helps me get better) but I don't want to break the bank to much since its my first one. Thanks for any help.

Features I'd look for in a joystick: A throttle slider or lever (for controlling your throttle obviously), a hat switch (for looking around), a twist axis (so you can control the rudder by twisting your joystick). Of course you need to see which of those features you can get on a joystick that fits in your budget. Rudder pedals are a lot nicer than having a twist joystick, but are also quite a bit more expensive (since you will still need the joystick as well).I'd also advise you to try and try out the joystick first. Make sure you like it's feel in your hand and that it offers enough resistance for you to accurately make small adjustments.

[gwtkemble 0]

Well thanks for the more replies about the joysticks. Where would a person go to buy these? I assume, I think correctly, that to get a good, legitimate, and fully-functional joystick and pedals I will need to order online?Thank you Pavvo for the link. I will look into that more once I get the correct gear to utilize it efficiently.

[Guest]

Nice to see a new member thanks to MS Flight! Welcome!Now a lot of (sometimes good) advice has been given already, but beware that a lot of the advice is given by (hardcore) simmers who own a lot of addons and special hardware and have a lot of experience flying on a pc...I see you were pleasantly surprised with the game and I think that's also because it looks good and runs well out of the (virtual) box. You can install MS Flight and enjoy it. Period. That's the great thing about MS Flight! Now some people tell you to forget about MS Flight and go for the 'real sim', FSX... but what they don't tell you is that:1. FSX will not run as good as MS Flight and that in order to get just a bit closer to the graphics that MS Flight offer, you will have to buy quite a lot of addons. Which quite often will only make FSX run worse. FSX will NOT 'pleasantly surprise' you out of the box, I can guarantee you that.2. MS Flight is a sim too. Ok, right now it doesn't offer the kind of planes a lot of hardcore simmers would like to use in MS Flight, but believe me: getting the Stearman down in one piece during one of the missions in MS Flight requires a lot of skill... I know a few hardcore simmers who had a freakin' hard time getting it done...!My advice: enjoy MS Flight. You could get a joystick for more immersion if you want to (a good one to start with would be the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro) but leave it at that. Don't start spending hundreds of dollars on rudders and yokes. At least not until you get the flght simming virus that MS Flight may give you after a while! :wink:And forget about FSX unless you are eager to fly planes that MS Flight doesn't offer or if you are more interested in how the systems in a 737NGX work then in 'hand flying'. But beware that FSX won't be as good as MS Flight out of the box!Imho I think that telling someone who is discovering virtual flying thanks to MS Flight (and who seems to be very happy with it too!) to go for the P-40 from A2A is BAD advice, really... That person will be dusgusted having to fly the P-40 in a vanilla FSX that runs like **** and looks crap. And I also think that telling such a person to spend hundreds of dollars on rudders and yokes and not wise either... Let them enjoy MS Flight and over time, if they really dig flight simming, they may start thinking about rudders and pedals. But don't scare them off by telling them that enjoying this hobby requires an investment of a few hundred dollars...Well, that's my take on it anyway...

[Gibbage 199]

If you can find one, the Saitek Av8R is a WONDERFULL entry joystick. I have had in the past some amazing setups like the X-52 and rudder pedals and lots of other sticks, but I really like the Av8r. It does not take up a lot of room, has rudder (stick twist) and dual throttles. Plus the toggle switches at the base are nice for trim, flaps and gear. Its also cheep and can be found for around $30. I got my AV8R at Fry's for I think $35. http://www.frys.com/product/5010115?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PGSadly it looks like they no longer make them. You can find a few on Ebay. Logitech make some nice entry level sticks also. If you really want a good stick for about 100$, look at the Saitek X52. It takes up more room (with a detached throttle) but its a really nice stick. But I agree above. Logitech Extreme 3D Pro is a good start if you cant find an AV8R.

[RichLP 32]

But I agree above. Logitech Extreme 3D Pro is a good start if you cant find an AV8R.

I'll second, or third... or fourth the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro! It's been my stick for years, and I've never considered anything else.I wouldn't trade it for anything else, that is, until I convince the wife to give me room to do a proper yoke/throttle/pedal setup... ; )