Hey all,Is there any chance of a screenshot of the Landing View, with the aircraft near the ground e.g. Landing :-) Its just I would like to know how the zoom/angle etc appears - cant really tell when looking above the cloud Hehe! Or maybe you have done this to keep us waiting.All the very bestMany thanks to all the hard working heros of this project! Simon Lloyd

Hello Simon, You will be able to view this ***soon***. I am a landing panel man myself and this landing panel is really great. Marc has to be one of the greatest panel artists for MFSM add ons. See, PMDG are so cool that they have included two types for this purpose, an approach and landing panel. How cool is that!? I think you will be very pleased with the view(s) and angles...[h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smith[/h5][h6]Are You Ready For The Next Great one? PMDG's 737NG is almost here![/h6][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3] [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG @ 215/545|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

Randy,As you know I'm a proud user of your "older version" landing view for PIC767. You know the one, with the *realistic* view outside :). Also, after flying the level-D 757 for a few hours I can honestly say that it represents the best possible pilot's perspective for a single monitor visual.Now, my concern is that PMDG might not be going by the same tactics as you were before with the older view. What I mean is that the approach panel and landing panel for the NG are nice, but both of them are missing something. The approach panel shows too much of the panel, and the view angle is a bit odd to my liking, it's a bit too much "panel-oriented", whereas the landing panel doesn't have any gauges visible (yes, ASI, ADI and ALTIMETER are "musts" in the landing view), because during instrument approach and landing one has to "see through the panel" to outside and monitor both the instruments and the visual alignment of the aircraft to the runway. Damn, I wish I had a screenshot handy of your older landing view, it demonstrates exactly what it *should* look like. The view angle and perspective are right on the money.I'll dig up a few comparisons later on when I get home from work.Tero

Maybe there thinking on putting the 'HUD' on the windscreen and didn't want you to be looking in the opposite direction....Regards,jack noulletkgsp

Tero-What it "should" look like? Hehehehehe.... okay, I'll try to remember that when I start my trip next week- because most of the stuff I've seen in MSFS to date doesn't look *anything* like what i'm using at work. (Maybe that's why some of my landings are so rough? hmmmmmm...... _I've spent a few thousand hours staring over the top of the panel from the left seat in airline operations and i can assure you that you don't need to see the ASI, ADI, Altimeter while landing the airplane, PROVIDED you have set your approach up correctly and you fly the airplane with confidence and control.The approach/landing views we have chosen to use for this product represent most accurately the "head position and field of view" that you would experience if you were to fly a real aircraft as opposed to a $75 simulator on your desktop. The approach view, if you scroll the eyepoint down a single notch works perfectly- and is far more in line with the challenge of flying an aircraft accurately. We recommend switch to the landing view as your cross the runway threshold- as this represents best what you would see in the real world.So- please don't worry too much about the direction we are headed. I've been pretty hard-headed about ensuring that this package gives you a flavor of what it is "really like." I think you'll like it!

Robert,Thanks for explaining your "views" on this LOL :)Yes, I do realize that what you say is definately true. Also, the endless discussions about viewpoints and such are so yesterday's news.The comments I made about Randy's older version landing view are of course only my personal "preferences" regarding the landing perspective. I realize that the true to life situation is somewhat different from the one people try to recreate in front of their home PCs :). In the end it all comes down to managing flying the plane or not; desktop simulators are nowhere near the real thing, but they are able to capture some of the excitement of actually being on a flight deck quite nicely. And if I may say so, some desktop simulators do it pretty darn well! I have huge expectations about the NG after all I've read here in the forum, so every tiny little detail of the package is "under the looking glass" for perfection. What a landing view really should :) look like is really NOT the most important item on my list, and I'm confident that I will like whatever you guys will create. Especially knowing that there's yet another real pilot actively participating in the design process.So, I'll just wait and see if I like the views or not (most likely yes :)), and in the mean time I'm gonna attach a picture of Randy's "presentation" of a landing view here, just for reference... not to put the NG views "down" or anything like that.best regardsTero

Short but sweet.....I cant wait to see!Cheers guys!Simon

Robert, do you have to manually change the panel view? as I think a little utility that changes it at present altitudes could be quite good for those of us who can't find the mouse while in the last stages of flight :-lol Just a thought :-)

I think this is all gonna be a moot point anyway once the 2004 clickable VC update comes out... ;)Ryan

Tero, thanks for the compliments ;). You know all to well the work that I put into creating the best possible landing view for PIC 767. I think that you also know that the PIC team would have never have made a panel *quite* like mine being that it was not conventional in it's appearance. MSFS has way to many limitations when it comes to panels views. PMDG's panel are works of art, no doubt about that. I have to agree with Robert about the views perspective here. The 737 and it's PFD is quite differn't than the ADI on the 767, so it's much harder to have a *full* view out the window and a good size PFD. That's where their landing panel comes into play. It's a marvel, trust me, you have not seen the updated version that I have. It's also true that one needs to be able to reference their speed and attitude during landing. I believe that a heads up display with their landing view would be the very best that we could hope for, and really the best I would want for this aircraft, I am not sure if it's possible or not but we will have to wait for the 800-900 series to see. While landing, you are looking more *straight out* the window and the landing panel captures this well, you feel like your in control of a 737 aircraft. Of course you can always hit SHIFT ENTER to lower you view angle with the approach panel, but I have found that at the proper speeds on approach + correct trim, your view is very nice, plus it's more geared for your approach, not landing. [h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smith[/h5][h6]Are You Ready For The Next Great one? PMDG's 737NG is almost here![/h6][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3] [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG @ 215/545|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

Randy,Thanks for commenting.It's so good to hear that the views really do work, and I think that the HUD+landing view combo would be a killer when it comes to view outside and situational awareness.As I'm sure many of you know, it is crucial to have some crucial parameters visible at the same time while doing an instrument/instrument visual/pure visual approach. There must never be a situation where the pilot doesn't know the airspeed or attitude of a jetliner-sized aircraft. These demands are even pronounced in approach and landing phases as the aircraft is flying in the lower portion of the power curve with very little marginals for error.I was told by a 757 instructor that the in the "right way" one needs to switch between the outside/inside views constantly to stay aware of the plane's alignment and position with respect to runway, and to know what the critical parameters are during the entire approach, be it a visual or a full instrument approach. Of course during IMC, with zero visibility you don't look outside when flying, say, a manual ILS. But the essential thing is to look "through the instruments" like he put it, to see outside while simultaneously performing the scan inside.I'm aching to get my hands on the NG. This wait is already getting on my nerves, but I'd rather get a well tested & functional package than a half-baked one with lots of stuff to patch. Whatever time it takes it takes... :(Terops. I still hope to see you doing landing views, perhaps even for the NG later on, and certainly for the updated PICv2. (the older style! lol)

Dear Tero,After viewing your attached image of Randy's landing panel, I searched on AVSIM for the file. But the one they have is a bit different from yours ie., there are more guages like the IVSI, stby ADI, etc on your image. Is it a later version, or is it your own modification. Can I please have the link to the panel? Right now I am using the one from Phil Geddes which is also very nice but I would definitely want to give the one from Randy, which you have, a go !!Thanks a ton Tero and Randy.Best Wishes,Dinshaw.

My final edition panel looks nothing like the one Tero is showing. The one on the Library is more in tune with pic in look and feel and still provides a great view with added goodies like landing lights, one click switching etc. You can search for it by typing "767" under the FS 2002 PANEL section....[h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smith[/h5][h6]Are You Ready For The Next Great one? PMDG's 737NG is almost here![/h6][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3] [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG @ 215/545|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

Randy,The older one I'm using is in _perfect_ tune with PIC, in my most humble opinion LOL!Tero