Chaps,Just wondering whether the go-around is being looked at for SU2? Here's what I've found:1. A/P should disconnect on pressing TOGA during a single-channel approach.2. Dual channel go-around pitches up way too slowly, so by the time flaps 15 is achieved the aircraft is still descending causing the GPWS alert "Too low, flaps". Meanwhile the G/A thrust comes in causing the speed to build excessively because the aircraft is not pitching up. Same applies to the F/D pitch command in a single-channel G/A.4. First push of TOGA should give reduced G/A thrust, full G/A thrust on the second push.3. After pushing TOGA, the MCP speed window should go blank while the magenta speed bug is controlled by the flap lever position (commanding the flap manoeuvre speed).5. After pushing TOGA, HDG SEL roll mode should not engage. The F/D and A/P should simply maintain the existing ground track, leaving the roll mode FMA box empty until a roll mode is pilot selected.

Damn, the edit time ran out and my points aren't in order!Ian if you're reading this, my point number 3 above reminds me of a thread we had about raising flaps during the acceleration after take-off. You wrote:"I guess different horses for different courses. Other aircraft/airline AOM's may actually prohibit you from retracting flaps before actually reaching the required flap manoeuvering speed. With the 737, the flaps/flap increments seem to be bunched tightly together, so this risk is much lessened."Interestingly, this is exactly how the fully automatic G/A works on the NG. To initiate the acceleration after a G/A, the flap lever is moved from 15 to 5, which moves the magenta speed bug from flap 15 manoeuvring speed to that of flap 5. The aircraft then reduces pitch and accelerates. So you would indeed be selecting the next flap setting before reaching its manoeuvre speed.

Can you supply a AOM quote for TOGA on the NG PUSHED two times to change GA thrust settings?Thanks[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg

1. A/P should disconnect on pressing TOGA during a single-channel approach.Hi Neil,are you sure about this? What I remember is that SOMETIMES the AP will disconnect during a G/A but not always. I believe if the aircraft should level off too low (MCP ALT) the AP will jump out. I'm not sure of any numbers though (CBT's didn't mention them!)Regards,Mark

http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/41284.jpg[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg

"Can you supply a AOM quote for TOGA on the NG PUSHED two times to change GA thrust settings?"How about the Boeing Maintenance Manual, Randy?Chapter 22-31-00First push produces a thrust/thrust lever movement which will give an 8% climb gradient. This will normally be less than a full rated go around. Second push will give full rated GA thrust. Normally on the first push you will see "GA" in the A/T section of the FMA on the PFD. A second push will change this to "N1".Further details will be provided if necessary ;-)Cheers.Ian.P.S. This is not unlike the double push on the 747-400.... but climb is given as "2000fpm" on the first push (I haven't yet done my sums to see if this is the same as 8%).

I for the life of me cannot locate a AOM or CBT reference for this. I have some NG maintenance manuals but not the one you are qouting from hehe. Thanks..[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg

Well I see two of my points have already been challenged and then confirmed! :DI try not to post before I've checked the information is correct. The above points come from 36 hours' experience in a real B737-700 sim. Unfortunately I don't have a full AOM, but I confirmed the G/A behaviour using the www.smartcockpit.com website.I thought my point about the MCP speed bug being controlled by the flap lever would raise some eyebrows. At the moment the software sets the bug at MCP speed +20 after pressing TOGA for a G/A, which suggests that the aircraft cannot distinguish between a takeoff and a G/A.

"I thought my point about the MCP speed bug being controlled by the flap lever would raise some eyebrows."Surprised, yes, Neil, but it's in one of my books too. There was no mention of the MCP display blanking, however (other than when in VNAV). An option perhaps?I'll see what our AOM's have to say on this if I get the opportunity.Cheers.Ian.

I agree with most of your points, heres my 2 cents....Single Channel Go Around-Push TOGA-If FD is off, the command bars will automatically pop up.-If AP is engaged, it will disengage when TOGA is pushed, hand fly using FD command bars. -MCP speed window will open-FD commands ground track, wings level and flap maneuvering speed.-At 400ft agl select a roll mode. Duel Channel Go Around-Push TOGA- duel channel approach only- TOGA (second push for max power) - FD piches up to 15 degrees until climb rate is 1000-2000fpm. Then pitch command holds maneuvering speed for selected flaps.- FD roll commands holds ground track, wings level when TOGA wa pushed. Select a roll mode above 400 ft agl.-MCP speed window is blank. Flap handle position determines pitch commands for acceleration until a pitch mode is selected or until the AT exits the TOGA mode.-At missed approach altitude is capture, the second AP disengages. The first AP remains engaged ( no horns or lights).-MCP speed window opens and reads current speed when pitch mode engages in Alt Acq.-One TOGA push = not full Go-Around thrust, results in a 1000 to 2000 FPM climb.-Two TOGA push = Full N1 limit Go-Around thrust-For any TOGA push, airplane flys wings level and exsisting ground track, no roll mode active until manually selected above 400AGL.Floyd

As Floyd post shows, there are details about the G/A behaviour that I didn't mention and there are lots more beyond those which Floyd has listed. I merely wanted to raise the main areas so that PMDG can check their own specifications against the AOM and decide what to implement.>Single Channel Go Around>-MCP speed window will openNo, the window definitely becomes blank upon pressing TOGA after both single and dual channel approaches while the flap handle determines the manoeuvre speed to be commanded. If you think about it, it's logical that the window is blank while something other than the MCP speed selector determines the commanded speed, rather like when VNAV is engaged.So, could someone from PMDG please comment on whether the G/A behaviour is being fixed in SU2 or a later update? For me, this and the speed bugs on takeoff are the only remaining areas of significant inaccuracy.

Hi Neal,Currently I have not changed anything in this regard... I still have a few hours available though if the rest goes well... so let's see... no promise...Any idea what first stage of TOGA thurst would be relative to full one ? - x% ? anthonyAnthony MertonPrecision Manuals Developmenthttp://www.precisionmanuals.com

Hi Anthony,Thanks for responding. Unfortunately, I don't know by how much the initial G/A thrust is reduced. Does anyone have the tech notes on this? I have a friend rated on the B737, I'll see if he knows.I've read that reduced G/A thrust is calculated by the A/T computer and is supposed to give a climb rate of 1000-2000fpm. Full G/A thrust on the second press of TOGA is calculated by the FMC.If you can't fit these updates in, please put it on the list for the next one.

The vertical speed stabilizes at a pre-determined value based on aircraft gross weight, which generally falls in the 1200 to 1500 fpm range.Aircraft maintains present track MCP speed window blanks, and airspeed bug goes to f 15 maneuver speed.2nd push- full thrust limit (FMC calculated)HDG select- engage, aircraft should align with heading bug, as flaps are retracted speed bug will automatically advance.1000 ft RA, LVL change engage, -AP will revert to single channel, "A" for instance if it was selected first prior to dual channel engagement.(MCP speed window opens.)

Hi Anthony,Please understand that I say this just for the good of the product.I think you should not release another SU until you have fixed all the "bugs" and discrepancies that have been mentioned on the forum.It's already been several months since the release, and at least I hope that the aircraft would start to take its final form already. Go-around is one of the most elementary procedures that are done with the jet, other than flying from A to B. If you strive for realism, then you should just hold back the SU until this too is fixed as per Boeing AOM.Others who would like to flame me about the costs of desktop sim vs. full-motion sim, please don't bother. I'm sick of that repetitive argument, which is rarely valid too. If the idea is to make as real as possible, then it be so. We can never model jet-A fumes or beautiful air stewardesses in our home cockpits (or maybe we can! but not by PMDG). What we can model are things like system integration and system implementation realism.These should be done realistically, all of them (that are doable). Period.Best regardsTero