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Guest evilcybrosis

What Should I Upgrade to?

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Hi it was my birthday only a week ago and my dad said that he'd buy me a new computer(well not exactly but he said he'd upgrade the current one, which means basically new). Currently i'm running the following: AMD Althon 1.11Ghz (Slow I know)512 MB DDRTornado Geforce 4 MX440 64MbSo the question is What should i buy Processor, Motherboard and Graphics card wise to imporve the system, which i admit is not brilliant. Currently on FS9 with the PMDG i can get about 30FPS average, with only the 2D cockpit. I'm sure this can be improved. the biggest problem i have (which i believe is down to processor speed) is the fact that the game whilst having the reasonable FPS runs slowly across the ground, the planes move slowly through the air. I was thinking of using an AMD 64bit 3000+ or is it better to use an AMD XP 3200+ and overclock it? Also what grapjics card is the best currently available as i said i'd buy that part and i have enough noney to spare to buy a top of the range card?Thanks alot Peter Crease

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30 fps? Sure you have any detail turned on? ;)I am not the smartest hardware guy so I will let experts like Ryan M. respond, but if you can, get a Radeon something, not a nVidia FX. Just my personal opinion of course ;)

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As for Processors if you can go for the 64 bit do it. It is more money but if you overclock you arn't going to be happy for long. Best to remember that windows is going 64 Bit and right now they are (I believe I read somewhere) offering the free upgrade to Athlon 64 users so that they can utilize it's power now. I personally decided on the overclock about 6 months ago and now can't wait to get the mony to go A64. It all boils down to what is your max price range. And how well can you talk dad in to the high end range. I personally have been doing some research on cards and you can go PCIE for the cards if you get the right board but again it depends on the money flow. A good basic system would be A64 XP3200+, 1 GB PC 3500 (Good brand RAM), 9800XT or FX5950. This would still caust you but not as much as the very high end. By all things don't forget an excellent PSU to give all the juice that you need. I recommend the True Controle 550W by ANTEC I have had no problems and she is very versitile.

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Well I do have a pretty good CPU but if I had the option to choose between the newest video cards on the market and a faster CPU I would most certainly go for the video card. FS is CPU dependant but without the very good video card it means nothing. If you had the fastest CPU with your current MX card you would still not be able to turn up much detail and certainly no AA-AF. I am like Vin, I think Nvidia has come back with some impressive offerings that you cannot go wrong with. ATI is another very good option so I would be looking at price difference between the 2 companies simply because one will not notice the few FPS either way....Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4][h3]P M D G's 747-400[/h3][h4]coming to a runway near you[/h4][/font color]Caution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

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In case any of you have missed a lot of the reviews, like on ExtremeTech.com or AnandTech.com. If you compare nVidia and ATi, and we are talking the latest and greatest generation of cards, did anyone notice what was mentioned when it came to Flight Sim 2004??? nVidia rules this game, what ever Microsoft used as a graphics engine it was tweaked for nVidia. Everything was faster on the nVidia, Frame Rates with and without aliasing, Textures displayed correctly, got higher resolutions and refresh speeds. ATI rules just about everthing else, except for a few others and since Flight Sim is about the most played game on my computer I will let you figure out which one I want.As for a 64 bit chip, I am a electrical engineer and that spent a lot of time working with processors. You have to remember a couple of things, is there an OS that supports 64 bits? No Windows XP 64 Bit edition has been delayed into next year. Microsoft has spent nearly US$ 1 Billion in getting SP2 out the door and so it delayed the 64 bit team and I mean I would guess second half next year for XP64. Right now there is only one manufacturer of CPUs that even makes a 64 bit chip, its current market share is just under 13%. As we all know MS released FlightSim 2004 about a year ago, it was compiled with a 32 bit compiler. 16 bit applications really did not run a whole lot faster when the 32 bit chips came out, if they did it was because of the increase in Megahertz. So at the moment a 64 bit Opteron is a lot of money sitting there and not being utilized. Most of the gamers out there are downloading tweaks to get their games to utilize the 64 bit CPUs.Is buying a 64 bit CPU bad, no... You may not get a lot from it, you will get a marginal boost. If you do and later get XP64 then you are going to have a killer system running a lot of 32 bit programs. Who knows what Microsoft has up their sleves, but I would not expect to see Flight Sim 2006. More than likely it will be Flight Sim 2007 so that Longhorn can get out the door late 2006. I don't work for MS and so I won't care say other than pure speculation. I know that I recently purchased a new computer for my wife, she does not like the ones I build because she does not get that out of box experience when she gets a new HP, Dell, or whatever. But I put the money into the video card, stayed with a 32 bit AMD or Intel, got a little more memory that offset the cost of the AMD64, and she is happy.AMD and Intel has their followers, nVidia and ATi have theirs. To each their own, anyone of the ones above is probably a safe buy that will give you years of happy service. Most all will perform close to one another, and if you nVidia runs a frame or two slower than the ATI you probably won't notice since it is probably up in the 50 FPS range. I have built a lot of machines and the people that are most happest with theirs are the ones that got exactly what THEY wanted, not what the next door techno geek recommended.Jhan JensenStarBlue

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"As for a 64 bit chip, I am a electrical engineer and that spent a lot of time working with processors. You have to remember a couple of things, is there an OS that supports 64 bits? No Windows XP 64 Bit edition has been delayed into next year. Microsoft has spent nearly US$ 1 Billion in getting SP2 out the door and so it delayed the 64 bit team and I mean I would guess second half next year for XP64. Right now there is only one manufacturer of CPUs that even makes a 64 bit chip, its current market share is just under 13%. As we all know MS released FlightSim 2004 about a year ago, it was compiled with a 32 bit compiler. 16 bit applications really did not run a whole lot faster when the 32 bit chips came out, if they did it was because of the increase in Megahertz. So at the moment a 64 bit Opteron is a lot of money sitting there and not being utilized. Most of the gamers out there are downloading tweaks to get their games to utilize the 64 bit CPUs. Well it is certainly fact that AMD 64 bit CPUs do in fact run 32 bit applications better. One only needs to look up all the tests preformed on the net to see this...Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4][h3]P M D G's 747-400[/h3][h4]coming to a runway near you[/h4][/font color]Caution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro | Windows Xp Pro 64 |

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Actually Vin, the newer nvidia cards have the same sort of FSAA on the lines, so they're still fuzzy :(

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After I wrote a reply to the previous two messages, I deleted it and decided it could be better summed up this way. I had found Matthias had sent me to a review dated 23 October 2003, I had found data that showed that overall performance of an AMD64 Area-53 running in 32bit mode only had at most a 3% gain. But I did not want to get into a argument of words just for the sake of arguing. I fell the ones that replied completely missed what I said, I said to buy what YOU to cosummer wants. Don't get sucked into all of these specs, benchmarks, techie web sites who are trying to get advertising dollars. Intel, AMD, ATI, nVidia all are top notch companies, they sell products that are all good. Sometimes one will be in the lead, then in 6 months the other is kicking butt. The first thing they teach you in computer architecture is that a benchmark is only showing how good the benchmark is running. If performance and bits are the only thing driving your purchases, why didn't you buy an Apple MacIntosh??? They beat Intel, AMD to the 64bit world by YEARS!!! It is because what made you happy is a computer that runs programs developed for the Intel x86 architecture. (And before I get another posting saying I am favoring Intel, AMD has to pay Intel licensing fees for every single CPU because it uses the Intel x86 core technology)

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Well Peter you certainly got some advice.I have a computer shop so I get to play with em all. If your upgrading both you cpu and vid card please allow me to add to the mix.Im sure you realize a CPU upgrade requires a new mobo and memmory to support the new CPU.I'm running a Athlon64-3400. This CPU fits a 754 pin socket. I have 1 gig of Corsair memmory, PC-3200 low latency. Tese parts are on a MSI Neo fsr2 mobo. I also have an ATI 9800 Pro and two Raptor 74 gig HD's set up Raid 0. The whole setup cost me about $1,000.00. This machine is the best performing and most reliable machine I have ever owned for my personal use. I had an Antec server case laying arround with an Atec 430 watt PSU, so I used it. The A64 chips just seem smoother and more responsive than the rest.Having said all that. What you do depends I suppose, on the shape of dad's wallet?In any event. unless you plan on upgrading again in 6-9 monthes buying the Athlon64 is a no brainer! It runs 32 bit software a bit faster than the 32 bit chips and 64 bit OS's are on the way. If you overclock the only choice is the FX series of AMD Athlon chips, I mean serious overclocking, for me it's a waste of time and stability, seen to many come in hear with fried chips, both AMD and Intel.If Dad's wallet is really fat go with one of the 939 pin socket mobo's, they are just becoming readaly availible. If you need to spend less go with a machine like Randy's, or spend a tiny bit more and get one like mine.Now, with regard to vidio cards I personaly would go with a newer NVidia card if possible. I'm going to change mine. However you can buy the ATI 9800 Pro pretty cheap right now. I set my frame lock at 50 FPS and it never goes much lower.Remember a system is a system, if all you needed was a fast vidio card than everyone would be running a PII 250 Mhz. with the high end card. Dont work that way, you need a balaced system, any one high end part the isn't supported by other high end parts dont make for a good SYSTEM! Like having an NG with a 200 HP Lycomming engine, wont fly well.Good Luck

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Hi BuckI have looked around and found the following system for

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It looks like a good base system, I would go to http://forums.pcper.com this is the amdmb forum you will be able to go to the perticular M.B. manufacturer forum and see what others are saying about it. You arn't going to nescesarily see reviews but what kind of issues people are having. There are alot of very knowledgeable people on there. Also I would deffinately get a bigger name brand PSU and also make sure that you are getting good name brand ram, Corsair, kingston, mushkin, ocz. On amdmb you will be able to see what ram works best with the mother boards. Some boards will accept generic ram and others won't. Make sure you do as much research as possible to make sure you know what your parts are going to do when you get them all working together.

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Hi it's yeah it's Kingston RAM, i'm not sure what PSU it is, What sort of difference does the Brand of the PSU make?Peter

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PSUs vary, some will give you +/- 5V & 12V dead on. Some will fluctuate all over the place. It is more than Volts, the Amps will jump around. Power is Amps * Volts and so if one or both is jumping then you give you electronics different power levels. This creates inductance in the lines and devices, also causes capacitance to build and then it will fluctuate and fry something that has too much electricity in it.So if you have a PSU that handles fluctuations, then the less problems of stress your components.

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Put it this way if you buy a $15 PSU it is going to act like it. Any of your better brands are going to cost you anywhere from about $60 for the 430W to $100 for the 550W. There are some that are better and some that are worse. Again do your research, read forums, and read reviews.

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>Hi Buck>>I have looked around and found the following system for

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>Hi it's >>yeah it's Kingston RAM, i'm not sure what PSU it is, What sort>of difference does the Brand of the PSU make?>>Peter--------------------------------------------PeterOne has to be carefull when looking at PSU specs. Beware of some that use combined power in the specs. For example a combined power PSU that claims a rating of (for example) 400 watts combined usually has a MAX output rating thats about half of a quality PSU, dont be fooled. I see some cheapo 450 watt units that are only rated for 10 amps on the 5 volt rail, etc.The Antec 430 watt True Power series is about the best I have found.Examples:Antec 430 watt MAX output = 410watts cheapo = 300wats " " " 5 volt rail Amps = 18 cheapo = 10 amps.Those are just a few of the differences!The Antec True Power 430 sells for approx., $60.00 us.The problems show up when you start adding stuff, i.e. DVD burners HD's etc.Good LuckRegards

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Personaly I have to say I am an intel dude.I have the P4 3gig, with 1 gig of ram. and a nvidia g-force FX 5700I have all my sliders maxed out, weather, scenery, AI traffic,everything.and I get 19.7 fps (locked at 20) so if you was to ask me,I'd say go with an intel. but then, I am not a amd person, always had trouble with the ones I had. but then like stated before, to each thier own. some like amd, some like intel, ati and nvidia. but theat my two cents worth.

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Hi Guy's againWell i've bought the Following: so hopefully that flight from Orlando KMIA to Montego MKJS should take a little less than the 3:30 minutes it took me with the lame tortoise that is the current computer. AMD 64bit 3200+ (with heatsin and fan)ASUS KV8 Mobo using the VIA K8T800 chipset1024 MB of RAM (2X 512 mb PC3200 (Vdata))HIS ATI Excalibur ICE Q Radeon 9800 PRo XT 128MBE-tech PSU at 460WJust as a foot note i have improved the speed of the old one, it just means there is no buildings, trees, taxiway signs, roads, clouds, reflect..... (Fades off into the distance)Thanks again Peter Crease

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