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billyguo

Engine startup Warning

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747-400Everytime I startup the engines by AutoStart, that is push the fuel first and pull the starter next, No.4 No.1 is ok, but I hear warning sound when startup No.2 engine and 3 engineEICAS:ELEC GEN OFF 2(3)>BLEED 2(3) OFFHYD PRESS ENG 2(3)ENG 2(3) OIL PRESSELEC DRIVE 2(3)And if I startup the engines by manual, that is pull the starter first, monitor N2 at 20-25% then push the fuel, I can get nothing abnormal warning.In "NORMAL PROCEDURES" page 12 DUCT PRESSURE "Duct pressure should exceed 30 psi immediately after ENGINE START SELECTOR is pulled" I never get 30 psi until all 4 engines started.please!

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About the Duct Pressure, I usually don't get over 30 until at least one eagine is started. Other than that, is the APU Running and is the bleed valve open for it? This should supply the needed air for the engines to start. Personally though, I start 2,3,1,then 4 and haven't had any problems. Also, are you sure everything is properly configured for start up?Ryan Gamurothttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg


Ryan Gamurot
 

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Nameless-Please sign your posts in this forum in accordance with our forum policies.


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Try pulling the start switch first then putting the fuel on.CheersSteve


Cheers

Steve Hall

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Hi,That is what I used to do (pulling the start switch first then putting the fuel on), but after reading the first Type Course, it indicated that during autostart, you would need to run fuel switches on first, and then, pull the start switch. i got exactly what billy guo was getting, the numerous amber alerts. to my recollection, everythin was trimmed and set for engine start. if i pull the start switch first, and then run the fuel cutoff valves, i get normal engine start.regards,tomas


Tom James

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Guest Boeing747-430

i got the same thing yesterday. i was starting the 744 up for just a little practice in the queen. and i believe i started up engines 1 and 4 first. then when i selected the fuel cutoff for engine 2 to run i got a warning sound. i was using autostart, packs 2 and 3 off and didnt pull the starter before the fuel cutoff.adam

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"Please sign your posts in this forum in accordance with our forum policies."I am so sorry, I don't get you point. I'm fresh here.Everytime I want to read my post, I also try search Auther. he~

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In effort to finally solve this problem, I had attempted to recreate the situation myself but I didn't get any warning. But another thing I relised with the original post is that in the EICAS, it said HYD PRESS 2(3). The pumps for 1,2,and 3 should be on AUTO and 4 should be on AUX. If they are on your panels, could you provide a step by step procedure of what you did so I could try to recreate this problem?Ryan Gamurothttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg


Ryan Gamurot
 

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1. Battery Switch ON2. Standby Power Selector AUTO3. EXT PWR Switch 1 ON4. APU Start5. APU GEN 1,2 Switches ON6. IRS NAV7. L,R UTILITY BUS Switches ON8. BUS TIE Switches AUTO9. GEN CONT Switches ON10.NAV Lights ON11.HYD ENG PUMP Switches 1-4 ON12.EMERGENCY LIGHTS Switch ARM13.CARGO FIRE ARM Switches OFF14.AUTO START Switch ON15.ALL XFEED Switches ON16.WINDOW HEAT Switches ON17.YAW DAMPER Switches ON18.TRIM AIR Switch ON19.GASPER Switch ON20.PACK SELECTORS 1,2,3 NORM21.L,R ISLN Switches OPEN22.APU BLEED Switch ON23.ENG BLEED Switches ON24.LOGO LIGHTS ON25.AUTOBRAKES Selector RTO26.TCAS System Test & TA/RA27.FMC28.MCP QNH,F/D,A/T,IAS/MACH,HEADING,ALT29.FUEL PUMPS and OVERRIDE FUEL PUMPS ON (Witch containing fuel)30.HYD DEMAND PUMP Selector 4 AUX31.1-3 AUTO32.BEACON LIGHT ON33.PACK Selectors One ON or ALL OFF34.ENGINE 4 FUEL CONTROL Switch RUN35.ENGINE 4 START Selector PULL36.ENGINE 1 FUEL CONTROL Switch RUN37.ENGINE 1 START Selector PULL38.ENGINE 2 FUEL CONTROL Swtich RUN Alert!

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To be absolutly honest, I think your engine alert is supposed to happen. The reason I would never get this problem is that I switch on all 4 fuel run switches at once, then start the engines two at a time. I don't get a warning bell but I do have all sorts of advisories on the EICAS. As I started the engines, the avisories dissappeared as the engines came online.When I followed your procedures and switched on one fuel line at a time, I recived a warning bell and alerts for engine 2. All the alerts are normal alerts that are shown if the engine were to fail. This is because the systems in the engine for HYD and OIL are no longer running so the pressure drops. Once I started the engine, the alerts went away in the order the different systems were activated. The only alert was >ENGINE 3 SHUTDOWN which should be there. Also, the engines were operating normally.I hope this finally solves your problem.Ryan Gamurothttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg


Ryan Gamurot
 

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Aural alerts should be inhibited during any normal start, in any starting sequence.Try pulling the start switch first before you lift the fuel cutoff lever. Most RW airlines do it this way. PMDG reversed the sequence in their tutorial for reasons unknown to me.Pulling the Start Switch first during Autostart gets you into the habit of pulling the Start Switch first during manual starts. You have to do it this way during manual starts to prevent hot starts, tailpipe fires, etc.... Airplane logic-wise, it doesn't matter which switch you move first, but perhaps engine start sequence or start/fuel switch sequence is generating these aural alerts in PMDG.Hope this helps.Cheers.Q>

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Is there any Real world airline doing autostarts by placing the fuel control levers to RUN and then pulling the start switch. Seems like a recipe for a botch up with a manual start as you allude to i your post Q.CheersSteve


Cheers

Steve Hall

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