Ah, another PMDG release mired in controversy. As heartbreaking as it is for me, it is a simple decision for me. I had been holding off considering purchasing the Queen for FS9. Now, for me to fly the Queen I have to spend roughly 114 euro, or in AU roughly $180 - but only during the discount period then add another 29 Euro, bringing my purchase to a whopping $220 AU/114EU (Base product, plus the freighter to access those improvements, then the FSX version to gain those improvements)- that's before I spend the money to purchase FSX!.Every coin has two sides, for me, its a matter of trust when it comes to PMDG's marketing strategy, not rewarding customer loyalty. I cant trust that the product I purchase now will be supported by PMDG in the future. I cant trust that what I purchase now, wont need future payment to A) fix it or :( re download it. To resolve the issue of re downloading I would purchase a CD, but now I see these aren't support directly by PMDG. I jumped through these hoops with the NG, by the 600/700, then the 800/900 to fix the 600/700.PMDG, that is your marketing strategy, and that is your right. Just some feedback from a casual observer since the early days. For me, its not a question any more of will this game add-on be worth it, but how much do I have to pay, and what hoops will I have to jump through that prevent me from committing to PMDG products and considering alternatives (i.e. not flying Boeing) - as disappointing as it is for meThanks for listening,Dean Riches

>(Base product, plus the freighter to access those improvements, then >the FSX version to gain those improvements)Why not just buy the passenger version for FS9? I only own the passenger version of the plane and am still loving it to death. Do I wish I could buy the freighter and FSX version, yes, I do, but I can't afford it. I'm quite happy flying that version of the plane.As for your comment about re-downloading. Do you not have a cd/dvd burner?

how much is 29.99 in us money

Mike, hello,Yes, I could just be happy with the passenger version, but when I look at what fundamental updates occurred since then for me, i.e. CDU and flight characteristics, then the updates to me are essential to improving fidelity, same as with the NG when improvements to the CDU were packaged and only accessible with the purchase of the 800/900.Do I have a burner, yes I do, and have burnt to disc before. Should PMDG charge to re download their product, line call, can understand either way, when I observe what other FS manufacturers do, seems 50/50 to me, cant offer you an arguement on that one, I was one who was caught when supporting PMDG in the earlier days with the purchase of the entire PMDG range prior to this policy. As I didn't have access to my CD's for 2 years(for my own reasons) I was stung slightly when wanting to return to the NG with a request to provide payment for access to the product again after a period of absence. These are my own observations and experiences, each person has a unique perspective, just like each company has there own marketing strategy, you go with what you knowCheersDean

>how much is 29.99 in us moneyCurrently it is 43.29USD.Ryan GamurotLucky to live Hawai'ihttp://www.virtualpilots.org/signatures/vpa296.png

>I cant trust that the product I purchase now will be>supported by PMDG in the future. I cant trust that what I>purchase now, wont need future payment to A) fix it or :( re>download it. To resolve the issue of re downloading I would>purchase a CD, but now I see these aren't support directly by>PMDG. I jumped through these hoops with the NG, by the>600/700, then the 800/900 to fix the 600/700.I really don't know what you're getting at here:1. We released the largest free update in our history to fix the original NG, the SU2 package. We very candidly admitted that the original release was plagued with problems - it was our first ever MSFS release and post-SU2 it went on to become one of the best selling FS addons in history. Many people still use it as their primary aircraft today.We released a very substantial free Service Pack 1 update to the original 747 as well.We have never charged people to "fix it".2. CD-R discs are absolutely dirt cheap and there is really no excuse for not burning your installers to disc as a backup. We've had our redownload policy for something like 2 years now and people still don't seem to understand this. It is not our responsibility to offer up unlimited bandwidth so that people can avoid buying a 2 cent CD-R. Would you expect Microsoft to foot the bill for manufacturing and delivering you new FSX discs if you lose those? No, they charge you a shipping and handling fee, which offsets their cost to do it, which is exactly what our redownload service does for us.

I downloaded the software last night and was suprised to see that the 400F was inluded. While I would have been happy to pay full price, the discount was very much appreciated.Great job and thanks very much. The information on Vista was very imformative and I hope Microsoft can get the problems fixed soon.

Wow, they released something! Congrats PMDG. I'll pick it up when my relatively top-notch rig can come close to running FSX. For now loving the 737NG and 747 in FS9 and will continue to do so!Now back to waiting for the MD-11! (Year 10? feels like it)-Jonathan G.CYWGCanUk Scenery

>It is not our responsibility to offer up unlimited bandwidth>so that people can avoid buying a 2 cent CD-R. Would you>expect Microsoft to foot the bill for manufacturing and>delivering you new FSX discs if you lose those? No, they>charge you a shipping and handling fee, which offsets their>cost to do it, which is exactly what our redownload service>does for us.No I dont expect them to foot the bill, and yes, I think it is your responsiblity... Take note also that this very Microsoft company you mention, has been taken to court about not making critical updates to their software available, and they have also lost that case in a court where a judge ordered them to make critical updates available to all users of their software... If it's really needed, I'd be happy to through theregister, but it has happened years ago.But back to the point, when I purchase something from Microsoft, a CD in a box with manuals are shipped to me, or I gain it by going into a distributor / reseller where I purchased a boxed version of the software. Even in the case of OEM distributions, a CD is still provided. Even a technet or msdn subscription, is accompanied by a full range of CDs, and even during that subscription, updates to that subscription are provided to you ON CD.If I download something from Microsoft, it is:1) 99% of the time a free download, and 2) The download is permanently available. You don't even need to search hard, you'll still find Windows NT4 SP1 on www.microsoft.com - software which is what, now close to 10 years old?I must be honest, I purchased software from you BEFORE this policy came into play, and I am DEEPLY sadend that I was basically told pay up or sht up when I approached you to re-download because my backups became currupted due to a RAID failure. ALL other vendors where I purchased software from (for example Active Sky) was more than happy to provide me with a link to download the software again after serial keys and purchases has been validated - some even was happy enough to give me the latest versions of their software as well.Now, I will more than likely purchase the 744X because I'm sure it will be, like all your other products, a greate plane to fly... But I am openly going to say that I am not happy with the price... I hope it has been thoroughly tested, because for the price you want, I can assure you I have a right too, and I will be deeply peeved of should something not work... Just my 2c... Regards,Chris.

>No I dont expect them to foot the bill, and yes, I think it is>your responsiblity... Take note also that this very Microsoft>company you mention, has been taken to court about not making>critical updates to their software available, and they have>also lost that case in a court where a judge ordered them to>make critical updates available to all users of their>software... If it's really needed, I'd be happy to through>theregister, but it has happened years ago.The updates from Microsoft dealt with system integrity and security. PMDG is dealing with a product that others would absolutely love to get their hands on legally or not. If they keep your link active for eternity and someone some how gets on to it and downloads the file, they can decode it and distribute it for free to the world. This isn't an update that keeps your system running, it's a file you should already have.It is also not PMDG's responsibility to offer unlimited bandwidth. They aren't an ISP. They do still offer the download should you lose your copy but there is nothing that says they have to deal with your irresponsibility and waste their time to give you yet another link for free. You can burn it to a CD, burn it to a DVD, keep it on a flash drive, keep it on your hard disk in multiple places, keep it on an external hard drive, upload it to an FTP (providing only you have access to it), you even have online external hard drives that provide free access to storage. The thing is they give you several days to use the same link over and over. During those several days, you have so many options to back up that 1 file. Ryan GamurotLucky to live Hawai'ihttp://www.virtualpilots.org/signatures/vpa296.png

>No I dont expect them to foot the bill, and yes, I think it is>your responsiblity... Take note also that this very Microsoft>company you mention, has been taken to court about not making>critical updates to their software available, and they have>also lost that case in a court where a judge ordered them to>make critical updates available to all users of their>software... If it's really needed, I'd be happy to through>theregister, but it has happened years ago.So providing you with a free TOTAL REPLACEMENT of software which you no longer have due to your own irresponsibility in backing it up has something to do with critical updates to fix bugs? This comparison is ridiculous - all of the service updates to our products are available for free download on our site and this will never change. My analogy still stands - this would be like you demanding a free Windows Vista install DVD from Microsoft after losing yours.>But back to the point, when I purchase something from>Microsoft, a CD in a box with manuals are shipped to me, or I>gain it by going into a distributor / reseller where I>purchased a boxed version of the software. Even in the case>of OEM distributions, a CD is still provided. Even a technet>or msdn subscription, is accompanied by a full range of CDs,>and even during that subscription, updates to that>subscription are provided to you ON CD.>>If I download something from Microsoft, it is:>1) 99% of the time a free download, and >2) The download is permanently available. >>You don't even need to search hard, you'll still find Windows>NT4 SP1 on www.microsoft.com - software which is what, now>close to 10 years old?You did not purchase a physical CD from us. You purchased a software installer delivered via download. If you want to maintain that physical CDs are the only type of legitimate software distribution, then don't purchase downloadable products.I'm almost POSITIVE that MSDN Technet will charge you a shipping and handling fee to send you physical CDs of something. (or it's built in to the cost of the subscription and taken into account in their pricing) That's absolutely in line with what we do with the redownload service. It offsets the cost of redelivering a digital product - not only bandwidth, but someone here at PMDG has to take the time to specifically dig up the order and reactivate it. That may not seem like much, but it adds up when you have a lot of customers. PMDG is not Microsoft - we are a small business and we cannot use our other products to subsidize unrelated costs the way that a huge corporation like Microsoft can.>I must be honest, I purchased software from you BEFORE this>policy came into play, and I am DEEPLY sadend that I was>basically told pay up or sht up when I approached you to>re-download because my backups became currupted due to a RAID>failure. ALL other vendors where I purchased software from>(for example Active Sky) was more than happy to provide me>with a link to download the software again after serial keys>and purchases has been validated - some even was happy enough>to give me the latest versions of their software as well.And again, this is why I stated that CD-R backups are the best way to go - you could make 25 backups for literally the price of 2 gallons of gas. Those other companies have to pay for that cost somehow (likely by already accounting for it in their prices - would you prefer we did this?), we chose to take the position that it's your responsibility to back up what you purchase in download format. We do not think this is unreasonable - anyone who can run FSX has a CD or a DVD burner and the blank discs cost mere pennies.

I could not resist and I downloaded it...Now, looking at prevoius posts, I better back it up straight away...CiaoNick

>>I cant trust that the product I purchase now will be>>supported by PMDG in the future. I cant trust that what I>>purchase now, wont need future payment to A) fix it or :( re>>download it. To resolve the issue of re downloading I would>>purchase a CD, but now I see these aren't support directly>by>>PMDG. I jumped through these hoops with the NG, by the>>600/700, then the 800/900 to fix the 600/700.>>I really don't know what you're getting at here:>>1. We released the largest free update in our history to fix>the original NG, the SU2 package. We very candidly admitted>that the original release was plagued with problems - it was>our first ever MSFS release and post-SU2 it went on to become>one of the best selling FS addons in history. Many people>still use it as their primary aircraft today.>>We released a very substantial free Service Pack 1 update to>the original 747 as well.>>We have never charged people to "fix it".>>2. CD-R discs are absolutely dirt cheap and there is really>no excuse for not burning your installers to disc as a backup.> We've had our redownload policy for something like 2 years>now and people still don't seem to understand this. >>It is not our responsibility to offer up unlimited bandwidth>so that people can avoid buying a 2 cent CD-R. Would you>expect Microsoft to foot the bill for manufacturing and>delivering you new FSX discs if you lose those? No, they>charge you a shipping and handling fee, which offsets their>cost to do it, which is exactly what our redownload service>does for us.Tabs,Why not offer the customers a choice. They can download the product or offer a CD version. Very simple and it wouldn't tie up any bandwidth and it wouldn't cost you anymore than 2 cents for a CD either.jack

CDRs can go bad too... Hard drives go bad, any storage medium, can, and will at some stage go bad... Not every one can buy CDRs at 10c (or whatever was mentioned) a piece either. We're not all in the US and UK either, and exchange rates CAN be a really sore pill to swallow... Now, I got the queen rather soon after it was released, waited on the Cargo version for a few months. Since I got my queen, I have not but ONCE needed to re-download the software, and yet, I was charged for it.A -MUCH- better approach to this, will be to allow a X amount of downloads over an unlimited period of time, vs. unlimited downloads in x days (the first will actually save you even more bandwidth when you think about it, not that bandwidth is expensive in the US/UK to begin with).Things don't break in a specific amount of time, they break when you least expect them. Instead of PMDG wanting more money from me for me to continue being their customer, a better approach would be to have the resouces in place to allow me to continue to remain a customer.I'm sure allot of people will understand the reasonin, and I'm sure allot wont. I'm also sure that allot will see this as critisism and attacks on PMDG, but rather see it as constructive feedback... I did purchase the 744X as well, it's installed and it looks to be working fine. I'm looking forward to my first test flight.... --Chris.

>Tabs,>>Why not offer the customers a choice. They can download the>product or offer a CD version. Very simple and it wouldn't tie>up any bandwidth and it wouldn't cost you anymore than 2 cents>for a CD either.>>jackIt may cost 2 cents for a CD but they would still have to charge the S&H and you can be sure some people are going to complain about that. But I don't know, given the growing number of people, it may happen. Personally, I do like the ability of getting my product immediately and do back it up in at least 2 places after it's downloaded.Ryan GamurotLucky to live Hawai'ihttp://www.virtualpilots.org/signatures/vpa296.png