I would just like to commend the people at mcdu.com for actually giving us information on a day-by-day basis via their forums on what is going on with their software. I'd also like to voice my concern about my feelings that sb3 will probably be inferior to their product. So far you can tell that support will probably be faster on the fsinn side, as well as the feature list longer. No precip in sb3? Still no peer to peer in sb3? Refresh only 250ms? Maybe I'm just misinformed and the SB3 project will come out pretty close to what FSInn has to offer, but for right now all I can do is wait for FSInn to have VATSIM approval.Go check out fsinn and mcdu.com, it's an easy install. You can use Servinfo to check out who is on their server and go have yourself a very nice formation flight with smooth frame rates. The only drawback to their test server is that the controllers have to use the old PC and not ASRC. Maybe that will change this winter sometime when we can just all login to VATSIM with the next gen of pilot software.Flame on people, flame on.

Refresh for SB3 will be 250ms????....ouch. Is that really true? I play other online games (Joint Operations) and they have real time refesh...no skipping. 250ms refresh seems like the same refresh for for SB2.x.Nonetheless, I'll be trying both products to see which suits me. :)I wish both sides best of luck.Mike

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lol

Go to the SB3 site and look at the videos. Read the SB site the news page gets updated weekly, the bug list updates daily and there is a very active forumSB3 looks just as good as if you were connected direct to the other players computers. Even with 10-15 other planes on the ground around you.Remember SB3 is being designed to get you connected with voice, weather and multi-player. Most users have really good freeware or pay-ware add-ons for TCAS, FMS, and flight planning that is why these where left out.Got to love people that just jump in with their first post and start bashing the other guys work. :(

Having flown on the FSFDT server for some time now I must say that I like the FSInn client. They still have some issues, but it's still only beta so that could be expected. I haven't tried SB3 unfortunately, but I will try it once it comes out though.Just to clarify - FSInn will also get you connected with voice, weather and multiplayer in a sigle click, so it's not something that only SB3 does.Incidentally, I have also tried the new IVAO client and I'm very impressed, easy to use and pretty stable.This is a good thing, I mean in the last couple of months we went from having a cumbersome/irritating way of connecting to Vatsim to having three clients that produce a huge improvement over the current way of connecting.

One advantage of FSInn is it will be released before FS2006 is LOL.I was understanding and patient for SB3 a year ago, even half a year ago, but for crying out loud FS2004 came out 15 months ago!

>One advantage of FSInn is it will be released before FS2006>is LOL.>>I was understanding and patient for SB3 a year ago, even half>a year ago, but for crying out loud FS2004 came out 15 months>ago! Go code your own client then and remember, these people creating clients ARE DOING THIS FOR NOTHING!Jeez..

go code my own client? Oh sorry, I was busy contributing in other ways, including various freeware addons, helping various people with flightsim, and giving my time at various VA's.Sorry but with 63,000 members waiting for a client, 28 months later is a bit late.

I know the developer is putting a lot of work into it, and he like everyone else has other responsibilities, but this is hurting VATSIM, I know of many pilots that have given up on it, can't connect with the current setup, or new pilots who don't want the hassle and don't bother joining.

I know this is going to be taken the wrong way, but...If the pilot community had known how long it was going to take to develop SB3 then I believe many pilot/developers would have attempted developing their own clients. SB3 was the great hope. Someone was coming to the rescue and developing a follow-on to SB2. Well, it has been a dissapointing wait. The Squawkbox "trademark" has high equity. If I had come along a couple of years ago and claimed stake on the Squawkbox name and development future then I would feel responsible for developing a quality product in a reasonable amount of time -- regardless of whether it is free or not. If I were to hijack the name and then take forever to produce any results, then I would expect to take alot of heat for it.By the way, I have also tried FSInn. It is very, very nice and I am looking forward to the beta 4 release expected later this week. I'm sure I will also like features of SB3 too.Friendly "competition" between client development communities is a good thing. Better clients with better features.Jason

I totally agree with Jason, friendly competition is a good thing, even with freeware. oh and I had to do this :(... ________ __ /| /| | / | ||__|| | |/ Please do/__ __ | / O O__ | feed the /ol/. _/| / | Thank You. | / | / _ ---------------------

>Having flown on the FSFDT server for some time now I must say>that I like the FSInn client. >>Incidentally, I have also tried the new IVAO client and I'm>very impressed, easy to use and pretty stable.If you like these - well fine - just go fly with them.If you want to fly VATSIM then you'll just have to wait until it(SB3) is ready(or continue with the SBrelay system).When it's ready it won't be a Beta ,it will be the complete finished item - and it'll be as good and probably better than the others.Remember - all this(SB3 Development) is being done for free - for you(the flyers) by someone working in their spare time . He also has a life to live outside FS.Dave/VATSIM 859922/FIRE40

>If you want to fly VATSIM then you'll just have to wait until>it(SB3) is readyWHAT??? I think you missed the VATSIM announcement on the front page of the vatsim.net website in September that officially announced the coming of FSInn. SB3 was not mentioned at all.Here is the notice:"New Pilot Software AnnouncedPosted Thursday, September 23, 2004 0:23 EDTVATSIM is proud to announce that it has come to an agreement with Flight Sim French Development Team (FSFDT) to provide the pilot client FSInn for the VATSIM network. Currently, the client has completed alpha testing and is in code review, afterwards it will begin a closed beta test on the network. Once final bugs are corrected the client will then be released to the membership for use.For all the details about FSInn and other software such as FSCopilot, please visit the FSFDT site. Please feel free to use the forum on the FSFDT website for discussion about the pilot client. Your question will be answered there by FSFDT. For quick information about the client, be sure to download the user's guide.Stay tuned for additional updates in the near future !"Looks like I don't have to wait for SB3 :)Really, I'm not bashing SB3. It's just the prior misinformed reply got me worked up.Jason

FSInn will be for VATSIM as well, it will be a finished non beta when it's done as well, and I'm pretty sure it will be out before SB3.So far the main differences I see between them is SB3 contains weather (but I use Activesky 2004 anyways - best addon for FS2004 by far), voice, but you can just use AVC.The main thing I like about SB3 is that it will have a common shapes library with it, whereas FSInn, from my understanding will use your AI. Now for those who have a lot of AI (I do own Ultimate Traffic and MT 2004 v2, but I find they slow the sim down too much), this will be great, but I prefer a CSL because it will be easier on FPS. However could someone more familiar with FSInn let me know if you can use a CSL with that?FSInn is also done for free, in spare time, and is being developed a heck of a lot faster, and in a far more open and friendly manner than SB3 IMO. Again I think when you take on a software title that a lot of people use, you have a responsiblity to try and get it done in a reasonable time, free or not. I have responsibilities related to flightsim myself, and I sometimes have to ditch other things to make sure I get them done, why? Because I agreed to do those things and so I do it. If he has such a big life outside of FS then he should not have taken this project on, or should have asked someone else to take over when he found he didn't have the time for it. 28 months and counting is a bit much.