Hi,Its been a couple of years I was flying online seriously, and want to do it again.I remember in those days that the controllers became more and more sticked to the real world rules, to a point it wasnt fun anymore. Since controllers often do the same region every day, they know their procedures very well.We as pilots arent so know to each airport of course, just impossible.Now, as I read here, and on other places that controllers arent so polite anymore, and sometimes just rude.Is this all true? and if I start flying again online, is there a way to report them to someone if they misbehave? Or isnt that needed anyway?Anyone can fill me in and get me back online?Johan[A HREF=http://jdserver.no-ip.com]Personal Server[/A]or..http://62.238.33.10A LITTLE LESS CONVERSATION, AND A LITTLE MORE ACTION PLEASE!

I don't know whether it's happening more often than in the past or not (I don't fly enough hours over long periods to be able to make a scientifically sound determination) but it does indeed seem to me that more controllers (or the same controllers more frequently) are on a powertrip, chewing pilots out for no infraction whatsoever or overreacting violently to even minor infractions (which more often than not are either imagined or caused by a pilot's inexperience with local procedures).The insistence of many controllers on using only voice comms at the same time (maybe it's in part related) also means there's no more chatlog you can send to supervisors or network admins to make your case (either in a complaint about a controller or in defending yourself if you're banned for something).Case in point (happened to me back in april or early may).I was approaching Amsterdam on a standard arrival (which was the correct one for my approach direction, down to the terminal procedures for the published arrival runway), yet the sector controller (a supervisor btw, so someone who should know better) started to yell at me that I'd selected the wrong STAR (the one he wanted me to take had only the entry point different and that by maybe 20nm). Then as soon as I passed the entry point he terminated the STAR and vectored me direct to the airport before handing me over to an approach controller who immediately vectored me on a course which effectively put me back on that STAR.Others arriving before me were sent the same route, so the actions taken by that controller were pretty much useless. Why then take such an attitude?From communications with others flying in the area who heard the whole thing and contacted me this wasn't the first time that controller had done things like that, not even the first time that day.But as everything was voice only there was nothing to use to file a complaint. Not that it mattered that much as an isolated incident, but there is a pattern here as I've recently had more similar incidents of controllers yelling at pilots for the wrong reasons.For example last year I got chewed out for not filing a NAT routing on a flight from Amsterdam to ... Sao Paulo.That route takes a south Atlantic crossing, thousands of miles south of any NAT track, something the controller should have recognised immediately (that controller wasn't a student, he had full controller rating).In my experience European controllers are the worst. American (and especially south American) controllers are usually friendly and courteous. Maybe it's to do with the number of pilots in their airspace.Many controllers south of the equator are happy to see anyone online and will go out of their way to help you (including in at least one case a controller at Santiago de Chile waiting for 6 hours to guide me in when he came online shortly after I departed Easter Island for his area, with no traffic at all for him for all that time), while controllers in Europe get loads of traffic and don't appreciate pilots anymore (if they loose 10% of them they still have no quiet evenings).I've taken to looking at the filled controller positions and choosing areas to fly where there are few if any pilots yet controllers are present.Gives them something to do and me a usually grateful controller who'd otherwise be looking at an empty screen for an hour or more.

Thats looks scary Jeroen. Sad we dont have tape recordings now.. lolAnyhow, anyone else who thinks the same? Its sad after hours of long haul to have these things when arriving.I think I shall try and see how intimidating its now today. And I dont mean this negative, its always overwhelming for a pilot flying alone with ATC.Johan[A HREF=http://jdserver.no-ip.com]Personal Server[/A]or..http://62.238.33.10A LITTLE LESS CONVERSATION, AND A LITTLE MORE ACTION PLEASE!

Get a copy of "Real Recorder" and it will record EVERYTHING that passes through your soundcard. It can save it as an mp3 with selected parameters so you can make a small file. It also records good copies of music if you change the parameters and make a big file.Edit the section you need and forward it. Not much "overhead" to pull fs9 down. I didn't see any difference, but, it has to do some. :-)Regards,BobShttp://s95171098.onlinehome.us/junk/aopa.jpgSeems the rage to talk about the "size and speed" of each others computer. Beat this if you can for solving novel/unique problem anywhere in the cosmos. ..Have K&E and know how to use it!

I don't have the same experience. After some hours logged never had any problems, maybe luck I don't know. And, of course, any controller ever said anything about text. They are the primary mean of communication at VATSIM. In fact sometimes switch to text due to family sleeping, after all this is a hobby.Jos

read the vatsim forums on their site. Controllers constantly lobbying to make the whole thing voice-only or at least to give preferential treatment to people using voice (like refusing entry into airspace for text-only pilots during peak time, etc.).

Jose, I don

>read the vatsim forums on their site. Controllers constantly>lobbying to make the whole thing voice-only or at least to>give preferential treatment to people using voice (like>refusing entry into airspace for text-only pilots during peak>time, etc.).I have never seen this. # Ever #. And I'm online a whole lot, as a pilot, controller or supervisor.Granted, it can be easy to miss a text pilot. In ASRC we only have 3 or 4 lines for text and that can scroll past pretty quickly!Norman BlackburnVATSIM Supervisor.870575

They said what they want, the fact is:C. CONTROLLER

JamesI'm not saying that I go in to a Flyin with text only. After all that is a presence that requires extra preparation and of course the voice (if possible) is something that is needed. I'm talking about flying let's say to EHAM and a controller appears when I'm arriving and it's 2AM.I understand that people like to use voice (I like it too), the point is that I have a choice to use text and controller can't deny the service. This is not FS ATC with "radar services terminated" :)Jos

Jose. You might have misunderstood my message. I agree with you concerning your choice to use text. That

I know the theory (which is that text is the default) but I also see the reality developing in which text users are ignored or given second grade service in preference to voice users.It doesn't happen that often yet but instances seem to be increasing and calls from a number of controllers to make voice the default are on the rise as well.

Personally I typically fly in ZLA's area. I've always, 100% of the time, have had a pleasant experience. Also, I prefer it when the controllers get as real world as possible. It doesn't bother me when a controller points out a procedureal mistake I made. Matter-a-fact, I welcome it. Sure, there are moments of frustration on both sides, but thats reality. We're all respectful, as far as I know from when I fly online.-=MAB=-

Handandbook2, I'm with you on that one. As long as the controllers were fair, I don't see a problem with them showing some strictness and adherence to rules in their area. I don't know about real life Air Traffic Controllers, but I would expect that some controllers might have a tendency to be possessive to some degree of the space they control. In FS9's built-in ATC, I always hear them reference to the space as "my" air space. For me, it presents a challenge to study and prepare. At first I thought it was their job to do everything, but, in an effort not to be "scold/corrected" in the LAX/Oakland area, I do lot's of homework. After numerous flights, I still don't have it totally correct, but I'm proud of my development and enjoy the challenge. Again, I would expect that if a controller understood real procedures and developed his method of having a very smooth running area (according to real regulation), he might want to instruct someone to be more prepared in advance if they are going to fly in "his" space. I would think the pilot should be more flexible and expected to adapt to the controller than the other way around. There could be many pilots that want things his novice way, it it could take a lot of work for the controller to have to remember what he's supposed to do for the next pilot that has his whim. Where as each of the individual pilots can learn the one controller's expectation when he flies in "his" area. Just my 2 (plus) cents on the matter... -- L. James---------------L. D. [email protected]/~ljames

I met some nice vatsim ATC around KSEA and some international airports in Tennesee and Texas during my short Vatsim online practice.However, people are always different. When I flied to VHHH about one or half year ago, I finally discovered a rude officer there. He's still a supervised vatsim ATC at that time, while according to his claim, he got years of vatsim experience.After I filed a VFR plan with "Newbie pattern practice" marked on, he complained that I didn't put enough details in the plan and said "if you are lazy...".I was surprised to hear the word "lazy" from an controller, but I decided to continue the virtual flight, check him out, and stay cool. Forgave him for once, maybe someone had done something to him in that day.Again I made him angry with my oversized pattern, so he asked me to make a steep turn with my B744 immediately when I was about 2 miles from the runway threshold. Another weird thing happened during downwind leg was that the local weather suddenly went bad just in a few seconds (Does an ATC have the power to adjust local Vatsim weather scheme?) and visibility dropped to 1 mile or less.I reported to cancel VFR, and said steep turn in current situation is unsafe (he issued 1000ft to my pattern altitude). But, the tower insisted that I could continue VFR approach and make that steep turn as soon as possible.Finally I had to abort the approach after followed all his instructions. We had a brief chat after grounded. I said in such case an experienced ATC should instruct a B744 to ILS, he replied that I should ask for that first. I suggested him avoiding negative words, such as "lazy" when talking to vatsim pilots. He accepted. I didn't send the text communication record to anyone later. Gaming time is precious, if there is no fun online, then we can always quit and play in other ways.