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I am nervous about spending so much money on yoke

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I wonder if anyone who has the Advanced Flight Control System - III USB would be kind enough to let me know their opinion on this product.I tried the new CH Product yoke and to be honest it turned out to be terrible - was not a smooth action even with lubrication.Advanced Flight Control System yoke is over $1100 Australian hence my apprehension.Anyway any info would be appreciated.thanks in advance,Richard

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Hi Richard,This just shows that one's opinion of a yoke are very personal and depends on one's own "standards".I guess thousends of people (including me) are very satisfied with the CH yoke, and, unless your CH yoke was faulty, you obviously have a much higher standard then most users.And if that's so, I suggest you find a place where you can try-before-you-buy this yoke, before spending this amount of money.Regards, Rob

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"This just shows that one's opinion of a yoke are very personal and depends on one's own "standards"."I'm with Richard: I bought CH Products' VPP yoke a couple of years ago, and their flight sim yoke one year ago - I'm very dissatisfied with both of these products. I'd like to hear some opinions on other yokes too.

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I 2nd that. Apart from the fact that it is a yoke and not a joystick the CH thing is really not very special. Ailerons are fine but the elevator only works smooth with a mountain of greese and even then I am not really satisfied with it. Let's face it. It is a bunch of plastic nothing more. The only thing is that there is absolutely nothing available at a reasonable price. I spend a lot of money on my hobby but 800 bucks for a yoke ....geez. But I guess one of these days maybe when the next benefits are due I will go for it with a grin on one side of my face and tears on the other half.AlexP.S.: I am very satisfied with the pedals though. Nothing wrong with 'em.

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I have the older Gameport version, instead of the USB version. It is well worth the money. I love it. It feels very good. It is much better than the VPP I was using before it. It could use a little bit more deflection (eg, turn farther), but it still is a very good yoke.Lou Betti did a review of the the gamport version, which is essentially the same thing. http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/review/afcs.htmMatt

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I do not have version III (USB) but I do have version II and I can honestly say I will never use another yoke again. I love it the feel, operation, and quality and fantastic. I am however thinking about upgrading to the "Jetliner" style that is mounted on the pedestal like a real airliner yoke. It's the same yoke except it is not desk mounted.John

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RichardFor the first two years I owned the CH Products Yoke and was very satisfied with its feel and performance. And the CH product support was first rate. I accepted the fact that given the materials it was made from that it would not feel or respond like the yoke from an actual aircraft would. And I think that that is an important consideration. CH does not pretend that its product will duplicate the feel of a real yoke. Its looks and function do, and that is fine for most users.I then decided to upgrade to the AFCS yoke and have never regretted the decision. As the pilot of a military aircraft with heavy control inputs the AFCS yoke felt just right. Especially if you are accustomed to operating larger aircraft in Flight Sim the AFCS yoke will give you the control feel you would expect. And it works equally well when flying light general aviation aircraft.The yoke is very durable, and the switches on the yoke provide for a variety of assignments. There is no hat switch, so the flexibility of changing views is not as great as with a product with the hat switch.The only problem that I have had with the AFCS yoke was when one of the centering springs inside the unit broke from use. I took the top off the unit, pulled out the broken spring, stopped by my local hardware store and picked up a replacement pair, and installed them in minutes. Back to flying with the same control fidelity as before.Each yoke served its stated purpose. CH builds an excellent low cost yoke with enough additional switches to make it a useful console [of sorts]. The AFCS yoke is just that, a yoke, and a very good one.Just my thoughts. Rick

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>P.S.: I am very satisfied with the pedals though. Nothing >wrong with 'em. Will they work together with any other joystick or is it neccesaryto use them with a CH Yoke?

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>Richard >>For the first two years I owned the CH Products Yoke and was >very satisfied with its feel and performance. And the CH >product support was first rate. I accepted the fact that >given the materials it was made from that it would not feel >or respond like the yoke from an actual aircraft would. And >I think that that is an important consideration. CH does >not pretend that its product will duplicate the feel of a >real yoke. Its looks and function do, and that is fine for >most users. >But why chose a yoke if not for the realism? I get the impressionthat this product only enhances realism by apperaring like a real yoke.But that is also dependent on which aircraft you wan't to simulate.I have been considering such a CH Yoke but after reading this thread I'm more skeptical. Theese Yokes are very expensive and are only useful for flightsimming certain planes. What advantage do they offer compared to a more conventianal expensive quality joystick?

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You can drive a Chevette or a Corvette, as both will get you to your destination. The differences are budget or expense you can afford, and driving experience you are looking to achieve. -In simulating, a great yoke will not improve the performance or enjoyment of simming if you own a poor system to drive the software with. So the cost of each component needs to be a factor in your decision. Spend equally on the system and its peripherals and you will enjoy the total package more.-If you have experience with flying actual aircarft, then you have developed a feel for flying based on the controls you are familiar with. That will drive the decision as to the type of controls you purchase. Get the controller right, and the flying will feel "right to you". In my case I owned a modest system when I first started simming. Therefore, based on budget [and the fact that I was not yet sure that I wanted to continue to invest in a flight simulator] I purchased a good quality product at a reasonable price relative to its capabilities. That was the CH Products Yoke.After a time I decided to stay with simming and modestly upgraded my system. I then began looking for a yoke that more closely matched the feel I was familiar with from my actual flying experience. That led me to the AFCS yoke. Could I have stayed with the CH yoke? Absolutely. But its physical feel when flying to me was distracting since in its control feedback it was very dissimilar to what I was accustomed to professionally. The AFCS yoke fit the billet quite nicely.I also own a Wingman Joystick, and have used it extensively. When flying aircraft normally fitted with a joystick I have found its use authentic and very enjoyable. When flying aircraft normally fitted with a yoke I have enjoyed the experience of flying, but have found the joystick to be unsuitable as it does not authentically recreate the way that you fly yoke equipped aircraft in either feel or the manner in which the flight surfaces are manipulated.If you enjoy flying both aircraft that use yokes and those that use sticks, but can only afford one controller, my recommendation is to buy the best joystick that you can afford. It's a good compromise decision.If you want to get the most out of your simming experience from the standpoint of control input and fly primarily aircraft that use a yoke, buy the most authentic yoke you can afford. Like that chevette or corvette, a great deal of driver skill and enjoyment comes from the fidelity of controls you use, and the quality of the feedback you receive. A great steering system in a car provides that. A great yoke in Flight Simulator does the same.Just my thoughts. Rick

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>performance or enjoyment of simming if you own a poor system >to drive the software with. So the cost of each component I now have AMD Athlon XP 1800+ 256M Asus V8170 Geforce MX440graphics card>After a time I decided to stay with simming and modestly >upgraded my system. I then began looking for a yoke that >more closely matched the feel I was familiar with from my >actual flying experience. That led me to the AFCS yoke. What is this AFCS yoke? I'm only familiar with CH yokes.>I also own a Wingman Joystick, and have used it extensively. > When flying aircraft normally fitted with a joystick I have >found its use authentic and very enjoyable. When flying >aircraft normally fitted with a yoke I have enjoyed the >experience of flying, but have found the joystick to be >unsuitable as it does not authentically recreate the way >that you fly yoke equipped aircraft in either feel or the >manner in which the flight surfaces are manipulated. >Precisely which Wingman Joystick do you mean?>If you enjoy flying both aircraft that use yokes and those >that use sticks, but can only afford one controller, my >recommendation is to buy the best joystick that you can >afford. It's a good compromise decision. >It's not so much question about being able as of to want tospend the money. several 1000 kr (100$) is to much?>If you want to get the most out of your simming experience >from the standpoint of control input and fly primarily >aircraft that use a yoke, buy the most authentic yoke you >can afford. Like that chevette or corvette, a great deal of And which Yoke is that? I now of three difeferent CH Yokes being soldhere in Sweden

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>What is this AFCS yoke? I'm only familiar with CH yokes. Check the link in my reply to the original question.Matt

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In at least partial response to your questions:1. A link to a company [one of several] that sells the AFCS style yoke:http://www.flypfc.com/entertainment%20products/jet.html2. With regards to the Joystick controller, I'll have to run home to look at the model number, but it is the Logitech Wingman Force Feedback Joystick. It is 2.5 years old now, and it's model may have been upgraded.3. With regards to the CH products, after looking at this link on the website:http://www.chproducts.com/retail/products.htmlThe choice of USB or gameport [only Gameport was available at the time I purchased mine] would be USB for me due to speed for the yoke. As for the throttle quadrant on the top right? If you fly General Avaition aircraft and can access throttle, prop control ,and mixture, then that yoke would be the way to go. For larger aircraft that use a power lever type set-up [single control found on large turboprops where prop pitch is controlled independently through a governor], or a turbofan or turbojet engine, then the single throttle assembly is sufficient.On the Precision Flight Controls web site you will find that the AFCS style yoke can be combined with a separate throttle quadrant assembly that provides independent throttles for two, three, or four engine aircraft, and also provides levers to control spoilers and the deployment of reverse thrust. They also provide throttle quadrants for GA aircraft that allow you to control throttle, mixture, and prop for single and twin engine aircraft. So, if you are looking for a very realsitic set-up, and can afford the cost, a company like PFC can take you a very long ways toward that goal.Rick

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A word of warning. Years back I purchased the AETI AFCS II Yoke and throttle (gameport version), My operating system at that time was Windows 98. Since then, I have Windows XP and the Combat Stick drivers do not work. AETI has not updated their drivers for Windows XP and I am now having to use a $40.00 joystick instesd of my expensive yoke, throttle and Cirrus pedals.Very disapointed. Anyone else in my shoes?

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Depends on your needs !!!I've had a CH Virtual Pilot Pro (game port) for about 4-5 years. As a non-real-world pilot, it has fit my needs very well. Of course I would upgrade to a newer CH-USB model if I felt the need, but I just don't feel this need.I can see where some people would want to spend "big bucks" for a better "feel". I'm not into it that much. I suppose it's about like my dog who doesn't have any idea of what a "Quarter Pounder with Cheese" is. But he's still very happy with any old dog food he can get his mouth into.I did try a force-feedback unit. It was crap, and it went back.RegardsBob (Lecanto, Fl)AMD, Athlon XP, 1800+MSI, K7T266 XP ProPC 2100 DDR, 1024 MBXP, Home Edition Elsa GLadiac 920, GF3/64Mb andPNY, Verto nVidia TNT 2-M64/32WD, 100 MB, 7200, Ultra 100Sound Blaster, Audigy MP3+CH Prod, VPP Yoke - Sound CardCH Prod, Pedals - Sound Card

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I use XP Pro and I downloaded the XP drivers from CH's website. I use my Yoke, Throttle, and CH Pedals all the time.Matt

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I can't help adding my 10 cents at this point. I fly professionally too and I have been interested in sims since 1988, starting with Sublogic on floppy disks. Since then, PC based simulators together with PC's have evolved and offer a flying experience that is very close to the real thing. Except for one thing: yokes and rudder pedals. I have been using CH Products 's products upgrading each new release and I find them terrible. They are nothing but an over-priced plastic toy. There is nothing resembling the real feel of a yoke or pedal, even remotely. And the software and drivers going with it give the same amateur-like impression. The only reason I use CH products is that there is nothing else (yoke) in the same price range. CH Products have been selling their overpriced product unchallenged for many years. I hope someone picks up the torch and markets a quality competing product soon.About 5 years ago I bought the Cirrus II yoke with throttle quadrant from Precision Flight Controls. I paid about $2000 if I remember right and it's been sitting in my closet ever since. The yoke does feel right but it turns out the majority of the control buttons on the unit were not wired to anything inside the box... Customer support was practically nil. To top it all, it had a dedicated interface to Elite and could not be used for MS flight sim or any game port based simulator. I guess, to answer the initial post, I would be very hesitant to spend any amount of money without a trial first.I just wish that yoke/pedal and other human interface devices would keep up with the improvments made by simulators in terms of realism and quality, even if always ten steps behind.A hint to all the entrepreneurs out there...there is a market.Charles

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Hi Richard,I have the gameport version...Yes I had to swallow too before spending all that money.Am using them now already for few years..The realistic feel and quality are really unique.I use them together with my old Thrustmaster pedals.Spend that daugh... and get the very best!Jaaky

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Thank you all very much for your input.I still cannot make up my mind.Will think about it over the weekend.Just would be nice to have a yoke with a smooth gliding motion instead of this wretched sticking which I get. Its terrible when you are trying to manually land an aircraft.regards to allRichard

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Charlie,Not exactly correct. CH have released XP Combat Stick drivers which give almost 100% functionality with the AFCS. Then combine this with the latest Version of FSUIPC which allows button assignments and you have 100% functionality for the Yoke and all its buttons.Keith Cocker

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I keep my CH yoke lubed up with silicone lubricant. Because it is not petrolium-based it will not harm the plastic. I found that it's best to apply fairly liberally and not wipe away the excess.It's much cheaper than a US$500 yoke. :)

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Richard:As a final note, even the AETI AFCS yoke will have something of a dead zone or slight sticking to it in the center of the yokes fore and aft travel. This is due to the fact that you have opposing sets of springs that are trying to center the yokes travel, and as they [the springs] reach the centered point they relax, and you are left overcoming the frictional forces imposed by the bushings that the shaft for the yoke rides on. Well maintained this aspect of operation is barely noticeable, but still present. Thought you'd like to know.Rick

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>2. With regards to the Joystick controller, I'll have to >run home to look at the model number, but it is the Logitech >Wingman Force Feedback Joystick. It is 2.5 years old now, >and it's model may have been upgraded. >How well does force feedback work with FS2002? Does realisticallysimulate the forces you feel in a real airplane? I think I have read here before that force feedback is not good to use with MS FS, butI'm not sure. If it works well maybe a force feedback joystick couldbe a good choice.

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