Hey guys/gals (Are there any? Would be nice to know!)I have a rather serious dilemma here, as the other half/missus/wife/girlfriend/bit-on-the-side/what-have-you/etc-etc-etc has decreed that I will not be allowed to build a sim yet as:a) We don't have the cash (I said most of the bits I have already, or are dirt cheap):( We don't have the room (The way I plan on making it, that's not a problem)c) What's the point??? (Oh Lord help me explain this one without sounding like a madman....)Now the problem here is that we're not due to be considering moving house yet as we plan on doing so when:a) We can afford it (Yeah right at today's prices):( We need the space for a family (UH OH!!)What I plan on doing is constructing most, if not all, the smaller bits and pieces such as comms panels, controls, seats etc etc now so that I can start using the damned things without actually having to use a full shell, which will be done at a later stage. Things like the CDU's and the throttles and the AP panel (I'm going for the big jets here) can be made and used at my desk, which is not a problem.The problem is persuading the good(!) lady to let me actually build the blasted things, because if I steam ahead I won't hear the last of it til we're both dead (As either she'll come moaning at my grave about it, or she'll haunt me.......)Any ideas from the people out there who have had similar experiences? I'd like to get this project done and STILL not have to do the laundry every day ;)

That could be a very touchy situation you have there. Although I have no significant other right now....I often think which I would choose..lolMessing with someone's "airplane" or "sim"-close enough, is kind of like messing with someone's pet dog..or even worse. Now the real question is: which "really" comes first...the airplane or you significant other? hehe.

since I'm not married and even not dating at the moment (23 so still got plenty of time, right ;)) maybe I can help you with some fresh ideas.try explaining her that one day, the mall (written right ? like big shopping thing ?) will close down and only be available trough the internet. though she'll still be able to see pictures of the things she might want to buy for herself (or for you) she won't be able to feel the fabric of the cloths, she won't be able to see it in different lights or even try it on. when that day comes she'll want to build a mini mall in your house with a little shop & old cloths so she can have that "lets go to the mall & spend money"-feeling once again. lets call it a "mall simulator" :(no if you tell her that, she'll probably look at you like she's doubting if she shouldn't drop you off at a mentalhospital :(though that would be a good thing cuz you need to be just that little bit mental to do this thing we do :(i realy feel that since i chose the "cockpit building" road, that flightsim isn't flightsim anymore like it used to be. i frequent different fora, meet different people than i normally would. don't scan download sites anymore ;)anyway, this doesn't help much ..i can tell you that building is great fun and that prospection for parts & materials is great fun and drawing plans and "master-mind"ing how to get around some problems is great fun and while building going for a little test flight and finding yourself crashing down like you only did the first day you had FS !! IT IS GREAT FUN !! but i don't have to convince you ..i can tell you that indeed cockpit building can go whild in price. check out the FDS options around, backlight, dual yokes that are connected, real-look-a-like switches, fiberglass shells, 5 pc's with 3 outside views and 4 stripped TFT screens behind the panels ... you name it ... they got it. when i check those sites, i go B)first i think "OMG ! how the hell can someone afford this", then i go "OMG this thing looks amazing" :)so i'm just a simple student on a tight budget .. can tell you that around x-mass times it's a lot easier living for me here but most of the year i gotta save save save as much as i can while still trying not to lose my social life.but hey, look at me, i'm getting there, right ?I got my Fokker50 parked right next to me here and I can tell you .. it ain't a big bird but I sure do love to fly this and it's got all the options i need.I strongly believe that you can make any cockpit as expencive as you'd like. That's obvious. But if you'd want to make them all, while keeping your budget as low as possible, I'm quite sure that you could easely put them in different price classes. First & most expencive are Boeing. (however, i like those best .. specially the NG 737's are sooooo nice) Boeing requires dual old-time-type yokes. If you build an entire cockpit you'll have to link those so you need a platform to raise your cockpit up a bit etc etc etc. Then second type is airbus. no old-type yoke, just a joystick will do .. lots of time saved, lots of money & headaches saved !Then come all the other types ;pEither way or whichever type you chose .. remember this .. I'm absolutely sure that a half cockpit is, though it is in fact 70% of the real cockpit .. it's only 50% as expencive as an entire cockpit.Off cours it all depends on how far you'll go & where you draw the line .. but I believe that the thing I got here is for sure affordable to many many many people out there and it only takes: 2m * 1.4m * 1.4m (or at least something close to that)1 computer will do just fine. 1 display on PCI 2D card for the panel. 2 displays for the outside view on a dual AGP 3D card (don't have that one yet). 1 seat, 1 yoke, 1 joystick to tear appart, ...The rest is just:switches & buttons ( DO NOT underestimate the cost of those... )woodplasticpaintnails / screwshope you manage to talk the misses into it ;)good luck !

You need a dumber 'er indoors !Seems this one has figured out that once you start building the 'bits' there's no power on arth will keep them from getting assembled somewhere.... probably in her dining room if there's no other choice! (But honey, I work through mealtimes on it anyway, so why not?....... )Richard

ROFLOL :)you can also concider becoming gay & live together with an other cockpit builder so you can both work on it (while eating, off cours) and then fly it together 2 (or he'll play your air-hostes ROFL )no, for real .. forget this idea :(

Being married, on one income, and living in a townhouse I can say I am in a similar situation. The only reason my wife is accepting it is because I am using it towards my senior project for my engineering degree and have secured some financing "donations" from my parents :-badteethWhen I started my project I was faced with the same issues and if it wasn't for the school-angle, my projct would not have got off the ground.Personally, I accepted the possibility that my wife might not suppot this or allow me to do it. We don't have the room (I am giving up my office so I have somewhere to put it), we don't have the money (I am a fulltime student, she pays the mortgage and the bills while I am back in school, and we eventually want to buy a bigger house when we have kids), and she doesn't understand why I want it in the first place.What is important is that no relationship is worth sacraficing for a hobby. It may not be possible to build it right now, but it will be in the future if you plan it properly. Start a small savings account and put $20 or so in it every few weeks and before you know it you will have the cash you need for all those higher priced parts and tools.My wife expressed to me that although she does not understand the desire behind it or the need for it, she will go along because it is something that I am interested in. I do have to stay within reason about how big it is and how much I am allowed to spend on it (we etablished all that before I started building). I have been wanting to do this for 5 years now, but I was willing to wait 5 more if I had to.Just discuss it with her and explain that you will pay for it out of a small savings fund from money that you set aside after the bills are all paid (so it doesn't cut into your monthly spending money), set terms on how much space it will occupy, oh and one other important thing... reassure her that this is just a hobby and she will not have to compete with it for your attention. ;-)Chris MuellerPhoenix Simulation Software

Well said Chris,My wife thinks excactly the same as yours and she realizes that its something Ive wanted for years and very passionate about but still like to say no alot :-)The easiest way to get your wife onside is to go down to your local flying school and show her how much it is to get a commercial pilot license. Once you show her ask her what the better alternative is and then that way shes makes the decision for you :-) Flightsim will win hands down.Also compare the price of this hobby to say motoracing racing or even photography. Getting good photo equipment is expensive. The great thing about this hobby is that we can build and expand over time. There are no upfront costs except MS at $50.Hope all goes well.CheersGary

I'm only looking at doing a small, generic pit but I've gathered my stuff over a few years - yoke, rudder pedals, Cougar HOTAS, Suncom HOTAS, headset, TrackIR, Nostromo pad, etc. and it's taking up a fair bit of room in the study.As a result, my wonderful wife has agreed (and now quite likes the idea) to us converting the loft/attic. I'll be up there with my stuff out of the way and can do as I want... :D

You using PSS as base software for your simulator?? Roberto

OK....here goes...Ten (hard-earned) tips on marrying 2 girls - your legal human wife and your 'i-love-this-hobby-so-much-it-hurts' aviation 'wife'.THE ONLY RULE: YOU ALWAYS START SMALL!Never give the signal that you may one day need an entire room to house your 'other woman'. In addition to 'wasting space', your legal wife will not appreciate the screaming noises (Jet Turbines) coming from behind closed doors late at night...or the dimming of the entire neighborhood as you switch on 7 pentium 4's and 6 19" monitors that collectively use up 3.5 Kilowatts of raw (but expensive) power!HOW TO START SMALL...(follow the steps below...at each change, you must always make the statement "Honey...is there anything you would like me to get you or do for you this week?". Whatever the response is..DO IT! This is KEY to achieving your goals.STEPS1. Read an aviation magazine in front of your spouse/girl. Make positive sounds like..."hmmmm..this is more interesting than my other nasty hobbies". Ask her if she'd like you to change your hobby. DON'T CHANGE IT YET..just mumble a positive sounding "hmmm...maybe I should".2. Load up Microsoft Flight Simulator on the desktop/laptop. Start it up and call her over. Ask her if she thinks this is better than you looking at porn over the internet. Whatever the response, mumble a positive sounding "hmmm...maybe I should stop looking at porn on the internet...". Or, if you don't (yeah, r-i-g-h-t)...then mumble "Yep...I think I am going to get a little bit more exposure to the flight world by simulating the experience...much cheaper than the REAL thing!".3. Add a joystick to the desktop/laptop. make sure it is a very CHEAP and weak looking joystick. Play until your wife asks "honey, does that cheap thing really work?". Reply with "Oh Yeah...this hobby is really inexpensive! It's Great to see how little cheap additions make ALL the difference. Wow!" ;) NOW you must stop one of your nasty hobbies. She must notice that this is taking its place.4. Build a cardboard box enclosure that you can put around the monitor and your head can fit in. Make sure it is taped together with cheap packing tape and is from an item that SHE purchased. She will no doubt ask you "what are you DOING?". Peek out from the hood and mumble "You can't BELIEVE how realistic this hobby is getting...without distractions, it is so much easier to learn how to fly! And it is so inexpensive to build this enclosure!" Then (and you MUST DO THIS) add "honey, would you like to try?". If she says yes...you are HOME free! If she says no...the ask "ok...no problem...can I do anything for you before I get back to this quick lesson?" DO IT.5. Continue to play in the box with the cheap joystick. However, every time you play, you INCREASE the volume on the speakers by 1 notch. Your girl must be driven to say "can you turn that THING down?". You should immediately do so.(and say sorry). Then slowly turn it back up to the original volume. When she complains for the 5th time. You should quietly turn it down, shut down and put away your nasty cardboard box. Sit quietly in a chair, stare out the window and hum to yourself. When she asks if you are ok...reply with "Oh, yeah...I'm fine. I am just thinking of how great it would be to take real flight lessons in a real plane! Of course, those are $100/hour and I need 40 hours at least." You then end with "Oh well, I'll figure something out. Can I do anything for you?"6. This is a big step now. You must move yourself into a closet. Find a VERY small space that you can fit in...even standing...in order to play the sim. EVERY home has a space. It may be in the garage...it may be in the linen closet, it may even be the space under the sink! The trick is to show your willingness to take ANY small space and play this game. The REASON for this is that you "want to learn to fly without bothering your girl...and costing a lot of money". After a few times of doing this, she will feel sorry for you. Make sure she makes comments to your friends and family about your wierd habit. Always reply with "it's nothing really...I just enjoy this better than laying around doing nothing, or doing ".NOTE: You must NEVER buy any accessories until you have your own area to 'sim' in. All she must see is the ragged box and cheap joystick!7. OK...now you need a real room to sim in. You can get this quite easily by performing the following exercise. Look for ANY space in the house/apartment with at least 7'x 5' of floor space and 7' of ceiling space. I mean ANY! It should preferably be in the WORST part of the building...basement, garage, attic, garden shed. Otherwise, try to section off a part of the regular house (harder, but doable)...put a sheet up in the middle of the baby room to section off 'your space', if you have to! This is NOT the hardest step...the next one is!8. Once you have done this act of rebellious independence...you MAY be challenged by the girl/wife. Your responses are critical here. You must pick the best one based on your knowledge (little as it is) of your woman. Options:+ "Thanks for letting me use this. I am sure it will make things a lot easier for both of us since I won't be in your way and we weren't using this space anyway. Would you like to come in and fly?"+ "I know this is the basement and it smells like rat droppings, but I'm ok with it. I won't spend much time here...but thanks for asking. Would you like to come in and fly with me?"+ "Hey...you found me! I hope this attic isn't too dusty for you...do you mind if I keep my junk and my noisy computer up here? Thanks...you're a doll!. Want to come up and fly?"+ "Well...I don't know where else to go...I thought about renting a space at the public storage spot down the street...but we can't afford that. Why don't we try this out for a few weeks and see if it works out. Thanks...you're an angel...want to come in and fly?"+ "Honey, I just thought this was better than moving my sim flying over to Jennifer's apartment. She offered me a whole room at any time of the day or night. I didn't think you'd like that!. Thanks...want to go flying with me?" (Jennifer MUST be a hot woman that your wife/girl knows is after your weakling, overweight body. make her up if you need to!)+ "Honey...stop tearing the wall down...I'll do it. I just hope I can find the time to go to that museum you wanted me to go to. Or to work out and reduce my belly. Or to walk the dog. Or to go to dinner with you. or to...+ "LOOK WOMAN!...I am the MAN of the house...and darn it...you WILL obey my commands. Now fetch me some beverages and NEVER come into this area unless I summon you" (use with caution...and not in the USA!)+ "Hey..Look...it fits perfectly with the new Ferrari I bought you!!!" (substitute Ferrari for whatever bribe you think you need to give!)9. Now, for the second to last step. You now have a room to yourself. You must now set up a 'route' to get all your toys and materials into the space with. You may need to enlist the neighbors help to use as a 'drop site' for all your online orders. You may want to pay the UPS or FedEx or Postman to deliver 'when she isn't home'. You may also want to build a special TRASH CAN with a false bottom to load up with your goodies and bring into the space when she tells you to 'take out the trash'. Whatever you do...start small and build up!Final Step10. BUY, BUY, BUY, BUILD, BUILD BUILD, FLY, FLY, FLY!Hope this gives you the ideas necessary to make 2 women happy at the same time. If all else fails...just sit at the door, holding your sim CD, and CRY loudly so the neighbors hear you. Tell them that you have only ONE thing you want to do and 'She-won't-let-me-do-it'. Let us know how it goes!(legal disclaimer...I know nothing, I said nothing, I don't even know what a 'sim' is!)

Well guys, after catching her in a good mood (doing the dishes/laundry/housework generally helps here ;) ) I decided to have words with her about the sim, and she seems ok with the idea, but tells me that I can't build the full size thing until we move house (for future sprogs etc etc.....)Oh well, at least she's letting me make the panels etc, she's just not letting me put them all together in a shell :(Will try bribes next time, I hear choccy goes a loooooooooooooong way!! Well, unless I eat it all first ;)

Hmmmmm....Read a reply here about starting small...here is what I did.Step #1 - Tell her you want to do something really frivolous first...Having earned my private ticket with instrument rating quite a few years ago, I told my wife that I wanted to get back into the "system", meaning I would start flying small decrepit Cessnas on weekends again for the $100 hamburger (mad cow disease notwithstanding). This would cost about us about $1,000 per month..minimum!Step # 2 - Underestimate the cost of this thing by half (at least) Since she thought that my flyying again was absolutely foolhardy and "dangerous" for a serious family man, she started to appreciate the concept of a flight simulator as an alternative. You know, a desktop with some joysticks. I persuaded her to let me embark on a "fun" project in which I would build a mock up of a cockpit. This would keep me at home and be the man about the house. Unfortunately, after having seen some of the pictures on the internet, she questioned my sanity and the cost of such a project. Step# 3 - Once your in - your in!Having persuaded her to accept my little mission here, I said I would need the nursery sooner rather than later. Once our little tot turned three, we turned her out of the nursery and into her own room, beautifully furnished and resplendent with all of her princess idols. Everyone was really happy and I quietly moved my wood work, computers, panels, yokes, manuals, seats, projectors, carpets, etc. etc. etc. into the nursery. EpilogueFinally, she has gotten around to accepting the "lost" guest room and now likes the fuss all of our friends make when we entertain. The guys always want to fly the sim while the women talk about how cool (read crazy)it is to have your own Airbus 320 Flight Deck in your home. Just for the record, ths sim is here to stay...behold.

I like the 'reverse psychology' approach...you are a master of seduction! (in a flight sim sort of way :)) )It would be nice to get the ladies to give us their input...but I doubt we'll ever get any to stick their noses into this crazy hobby. (that is a challenge...of course!)Happy Flying ...and GREAT panels!

Coming from a Master Builder that is quite a compliment...Thank you Captain, on both counts...Actually, my bus is missing an EFIS and Throttles...they are on thier way from FDS. Can't wait to dive in again.Yes, I agree that this is a really obsessive hobby...er passion. I dream about this stuff...and my wife just does not understand why I love to shoot 200 and 1/2's on a dark rainy night with the Bus lit up like a Christmas tree...but I think you get it. She calls the sim room my cave...shhh, she's right!Regards,Sal

Hmmm sounds like it's time to research a new partner! :-)Seriously, I've been building my flight deck for well over 8 year snow, and I have had relationships in they didn't understand and some that did.When you get right down to it, there's no 'logical' reason to really build one, except possibly to stay fresh if you are a real pilot, or simply for the passion of flying. When I think of the thousands of dollars I've sunk into my project, I cringe when I think I could have possibly purchased a new BMW instead, ...but, I wouldn't get the same enjoyment from the BMW.It's the same passion that causes us to look skyward when a jet passes over, if only just to look... and smile.Ray