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ErnieAlston

Manual flight planning??

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hey all,is there another tool than the fs2002 flight planner that i could use to create a flight plan? sometimes i would prefer if i could also add waypoints instead of just erasing them.plus, for some routes i can

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For more realistic flightplanning I would suggest FSBUILD. The present version is still freeware.This program allows exports to all sorts of different formats, including FS2002, however there is no visual planning aide, but if you know the airway and or the waypoints it will allow you to create true to life flightplans.It also allows you to enter flightplans in the ICAO format. It takes a little while to get used to and using charts alongside does certainly help due to the lack of a visual planning aide.Here is the link to the homepage.http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/a...er1/fsbuild.htmHope that helps

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Ralph,Sorry to disagree slightly with you on the suitablility of FSBuild.I think it is fine for USA flights but seems to have problems with UK/European routes, at least the ones I have tried.It is as if it does not have a full and/or accurate UK/European airway database and will produce some 'off the wall' routes. Maybe this is because the UK/European routes are affected more by the monthly AIRAC cycles than the US routes are.FSBuild is great for converting correct flight plans into the formats required by the various other FMC's etc.At least with FSNav & Nav3 you can see where the auto route is taking you and amend it where needed.Rgds

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Hi...........another possibilty is the use of nav 3.1 in conjunction with Alain Capt's GPS package.........works well for me........so much more user friendly/functional than the default gubbins....................alan d kerr

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>Sorry to disagree slightly with you on the suitablility of FSBuild.>>I think it is fine for USA flights but seems to have problems with UK/European routes, at >least the ones I have tried.>>It is as if it does not have a full and/or accurate UK/European >airway database and will >produce some 'off the wall' routes. Maybe >this is because the UK/European routes are >affected more by the >monthly AIRAC cycles than the US routes are.I think your probably overstating the Fsbuild inaccuracies in Europe.Even in the UK the airway system doesn't change that drastically every Airac cycle.If its used the way Ralph describe it (manual entry of routes in ICAO format), it will work very well in most cases, and that includes Europe and the UK. >At least with FSNav & Nav3 you can see where the auto route is >taking you and amend it where needed.You mean like this ?http://www.tecpilot.com/users/erniealston/route.jpgRegards.Ernie.

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Hey Ernie, Great to hear something from the man itself. I must say that the screenshots do look indeed very promising of the upcoming version 2.0.Concerning inaccuracies in Europe, yes they do exist, but only to a very limited level when using ICAO format for entereing. When using autobuild.... I very rarely get an acceptable result with it, but hey, I am lucky since I have more or less up to date low and high airway charts.Still for the purpose of manual flightplanning this *is* the best tool, since it does actually take into account one way airways which none of the other tools does to my knowledge (don't know about FSNAV 3.1 though).Besides proper flightplanning is done in ICAO format in Real life anyway when preparing a flight-report (or so I was told in groundschool) so the extra money spent on either an outdated set of enroutes or an up to date one is money well spent and then use FSBUILD to get them into formats I use when flying. Anything else for me is just too complicated... But then again that's just personal opinion.

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hi Ernieyour FSBuild i am currently using is good, however i took a flight last night on SATCO from Brisbane YBBN to Sydney YSSY and the initial flight was a bit of a zig zag, now i am sure this would not have occured in a real flight, so i must say yes there are still some inaccuraciesregardsClayton

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Hi Ernie,>If its used the way Ralph describe it (manual entry of routes in ICAO format), it will work very well in most cases, and that includes Europe and the UK. You mean like this ?

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>Concerning inaccuracies in Europe, yes they do exist, but only to a >very limited level when using ICAO format for >entering. I think that assessment is accurate. It will only be as accurate as the database it is using.But okay I just created a Cycle 209 airway file for Fsbuild which I sent to Richard Stefan.If you can't wait till he posts it, you can get it from here.http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/a...fsb_awy_209.zip>When using autobuild.... I very rarely get an acceptable result with it, but hey, I am lucky since I have more or >less up to date low and high airway charts.True again, the autogenerator isn't that accurate. But then it wasn't designed to be so, it simply was a throw in that was seen as being better than nothing. Fsbuild 2.0's autogenerator is a bit more accurate (because I spent more time on it this time), but still it won't make perfect flight plans all the time (I don't know many FlightSim auto route generators that do actually).This indeed is Fsbuild's strength.RegardsErnie.

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Manual or autogenerated ? I was speaking strictly about Manually created routes as Ralph described it.For autogenerated routes I won't disagree. Regards.Ernie.

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>Sorry, I should have made it clear I was talking about auto >generated routes which FSNav has a good attempt at, >and, for the >benefit of Ralph, FSNav 4.5 does take into account one-way airways.Probably so.But you must also admit, that FSNav is not a good tool for manual flight planning. Its at best a very tedious process. So each application has its pluses, and minuses.To me the more knowledgable you are about flight and route planning, the less you tend to want to use an auto-route generator.RegardsErnie.

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>>But you must also admit, that FSNav is not a good tool for >manual flight planning. Its at best a very tedious process. Well, I guess it's what you're used to Ernie.My usual method is to let FSNav generate the route, check the UK portion against the UK Standard routing document and amend if needed and then check the rest of the route to make sure it 'looks right' and check against any other preferred routings I can find.As I don't use rw paper charts *I* find this is the best solution for me.Once I am happy with the route I will manually enter it into FSBuild so that it can generate the formats required for the add-on planes I have.>So each application has its pluses, and minuses. I agree wholeheartedly with that, and we are lucky that there are a number of flight planning programs available to us, both freeware and payware.I suppose one could say that a payware planner should be 'better' than a freeware one but I just look at the features I can use and base my decision on that.To be honest I like the look of the new version of FSBuild, and if I was convinced of its ability to auto generate a reasonable route for UK/Europe, albeit with minor modifications, I would probably use it more than FSNav. However I also like the moving map element of FSNav for the many times I get lost :-) >To me the more knowledgable you are about flight and route >planning, the less you tend to want to use an auto-route >generator. I cannot comment on that, I do not consider myself an expert on flight planning, especially in US airspace.Whenever I have to fly in that area I dread trying to work out which airways to follow as they never seem to go where I want them to go :-lol I suspect rw routes use more direct routings than airways, but I may be wrong with that assumption.Despite all the above I still thank you for developing FSBuild and sharing with the community and will keep my copy updated as you release new versions.Best regards

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>But you must also admit, that FSNav is not a good tool for >manual flight planning. Its at best a very tedious process. >Well, I guess it's what you're used to Ernie.>My usual method is to let FSNav generate the route, check the UK >portion against the UK Standard routing document and amend if >needed and then check the rest of the route to make sure it 'looks >right' and check against any other preferred routings I can find.That's automatic route generation which I agree FSNav does a fairly decent job of.But try and plot a known route without the auto-route generator in FSNav. Trying to find and follow the airways is a very tedious and time consuming process.So even though FSNav very nicely displays airways etc in its map view, they are pretty much useless for flight planning.>To be honest I like the look of the new version of FSBuild, and if I >was convinced of its ability to auto generate a reasonable route for >UK/Europe, albeit with minor modifications, I would probably use it >more than FSNav.Well..it may not be for you then. I placed more emphasis on giving the pilot a way to plot his own route rather than having the program generate it for him.I tend to have a different design philosopy than some of the others in this area.Regards.Ernie.

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