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Can anyone recommend a FF joystick where the centering forces and FF effects work with 2k2?

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You can search this forum but the general consesus is that FF joysticks are not appropriate for civillian flight simulations. If you want more realism - stay away from FF.Michael J.

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If you're in the market for some new Flight Sim hardware, get a CH Products USB Yoke and foot pedals. I have a Microsoft Sidewinder Pro for about 2 years, and loved it. But once I change to the CH Products USB Yoke and foot pedals about 3 months ago, my perspective on FLight sim has completely changed. They come highly recommend from me. :-)Ryan-Flightpro08 :-coolVATSIM Pilot/ControllerZLA ARTCC Controller 1 (C-1)SAN TRACON Lead [link:www.taxiwaysigns.com]Taxiwaysigns.com Scenery Designer-----------------------------My "Home Made" System Specs:Intel Pentium 4 2.2GHz ProcessorTurbo Gamer ATX Mid-Tower with 420W Power SupplyEPoX 4G4A Motherboard with Intel 845G ChipsetVisiontek XTASY GeForce4 128MB Ti4600 (Det 29.42 WHQL Drivers)512MB PC2100 DDR RAM40GB Matrox 7200RPM Hard DriveWindows XP Home Edition SP1*No CPU or GPU Overclocking*3dMark2001SE Score: 11298

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The only value I see in Forcefeedback is the effects of trim. Since I haven't used anything but a FF since FS 5.0 I don't know if this is as big a deal as I think. I,ve been giving the yoke some thought but I'm concerned with the mounting to the desktop. My PC sits on a fairly nice desk so damage from the mounting is a concern.

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I wouldn't fly without FFB. The MSFFB2 is the best. I've got both the MSFFB1 and #2 and prefer the #2 for FS2k2. The one big problem I had with xplane was the lack of ffb. I won't go back to not being able to feel the subtle ffb effects. They make the sim. One simple example of the many advantages of ffb comes into play when the aircraft needs to be trimmed. That's immediately noticeable with ffb. And I also like the fact that there's no centering forces. Except for the helicopters. I wish someone would design a chopper airfile with ffb effects so I could feel the thing moving through the air.

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And I also like the fact that there's no centering forces. :-lolThat's the one thing I don't like about my FF1. I prefer the joystick to center rather than flop over. So you don't have any centering forces with the MSFF2 either? Every sim I have ever used that had FF also had centering forces. I may have to give a yoke even more consideration in that case.

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The mounting on the CH Products USB yoke is very good. I also have my computer on a fairly nice desk, and have had no problems with it. While I don't take it off every often, it's simple to take off and on as necessary. :-)Ryan-Flightpro08 :-coolVATSIM Pilot/ControllerZLA ARTCC Controller 1 (C-1)SAN TRACON Lead [link:www.taxiwaysigns.com]Taxiwaysigns.com Scenery Designer-----------------------------My "Home Made" System Specs:Intel Pentium 4 2.2GHz ProcessorTurbo Gamer ATX Mid-Tower with 420W Power SupplyEPoX 4G4A Motherboard with Intel 845G ChipsetVisiontek XTASY GeForce4 128MB Ti4600 (Det 29.42 WHQL Drivers)512MB PC2100 DDR RAM40GB Matrox 7200RPM Hard DriveWindows XP Home Edition SP1*No CPU or GPU Overclocking*3dMark2001SE Score: 11298

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>The only value I see in Forcefeedback is the effects of >trim. Since I haven't used anything but a FF since FS 5.0 I >don't know if this is as big a deal as I think. >>I,ve been giving the yoke some thought but I'm concerned >with the mounting to the desktop. My PC sits on a fairly >nice desk so damage from the mounting is a concern. What about landing and you wan't to feel when the plane is closeto stalling? Can't you fell the vibrations preceeding a stall?

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Yes you can feel the stick shaker before you go in a stall. and you can feel the rumble when you touchdown.I have a FF2 but i miss centering forces.

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>What about landing and you wan't to feel when the plane is >close >to stalling? Can't you fell the vibrations preceeding a >stall? In general aviation airplanes you do NOT feel any vibrations before the stall. At least not vibrations that you get from your typical FF stick. Believe me FF sticks are very poor representation of the forces you feel on the yoke while flying. Realism in FF is another one of those 'holy grails' of simulation that begs for a breakthrough.Michael J.

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Michael,I agree fully...As I experimented with several FF sticks and non-FF yokes, I can safely say that ForceFeedback (IN A FLIGHTSIM ENVIRONMENT) is just a hype. It has nothing to do with Realisme; it's just a nice GAME feature, but not realistic at all !!Rob

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Just to clarify, Microsoft Sidewinder FF Joys have switchable and variable centreing, very useful. Simming without FF is like watching TV in black and white!All from me Georgethetee

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MicroSoft deliberately removed the centering forces for FS2k2 on their ffb sticks. The reason was "real as it gets". Personally, if I had to fly without ffb, I'd just use the keyboard.

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>MicroSoft deliberately removed the centering forces for >FS2k2 on their ffb sticks. The reason was "real as it >gets". Personally, if I had to fly without ffb, I'd just >use the keyboard. I'm not sure I understand the real as it gets logic behind disabling centering forces in FF joysticks. Except for Airbus most A/C in GA flight simulators do not have joysticks to begin with so who is MS catering to by disabling this feature? I am not a real pilot but doesn't the forces imparted by flight on the control surfaces cause the A/C's yoke to more or less center itself, in the sense that there is resistance felt in any change of direction of the yoke? I think a lack of centering forces is just a screw-up. If you go into to the joystick calibration routine from within FS2002 and click on properties the centering forces are activated. But then the sim runs like crap until it locksup, at least on both of my setups.As for the forces themselves, I like having the addition of the sense of touch FF adds but really could live without it. The effect on trim is the most important feature, IMHO, but it requires the centering forces to be working.

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I was cruising around the microsoft site one day a while back and seen the article by microsoft concerning their decision to do away with the centering forces in both CFS2 and MSFS2K2. At first, I didn't like the way either sim felt cause I was so used to the great effects in EAW. Now, I have the MSSWFFB#2 stick and like it a lot better than the #1 version in most respects. I don't know why they chose to leave out the centering forces. It makes the choppers virtually worthless to fly IMHO cause I can't feel anything. Just a floppy stick. Guess if I was a real chopper fan, I have to go find another stick just for them.

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