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Snarl ! More ILS crapola in FS 2002.....!

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I know I posted a month ago about runways with the same ILS frequencies for both ends of the same runway not working for me and several folks posted replies. This has become a significant issue for me and I wonder if MS will fix it in the next edition of FS.After a lovely 5 hour test flight in a POSKY 777-200ER with PSS panel, I decided to land at KDEN. But just as I'd found at KPDX and then KSEA in recent weeks, to my annoyance, when I tuned the ILS for the arrival runway, it indicated the reciprocal runway heading on the ND of the PSS panel. I knew immediately that this was another major airport with ILS googlies for me. I tried 8 other ILS runway headings at KDEN and every time, the ND indicated reciprocal runway heading tuning. I finally slewed over to Dallas Ft Worth and successfully tuned an ILS and autolanded--on a runway with a single ILS frequency for both headings !It's fantastically annoying to fly for hours and have this sort of thing happen. MS may have modelled 28,000 ILS or airports or whatever, but there is a bug in FS2002 that makes an ILS approach to an arrival-reciprocal runway with a single radio frequency a totally random affair. To have this happen at major airports is just not acceptable, I'm sorry, but MS has fallen down on this one badly in this edition. I have tried some .bgl fixes for various regions of the U.S. posted by AVSImers and others, and none have cured this phenomenon. It was never like this in the early days of Fs2002. It all worked fine. What happened? I have no idea.Sorry to vent yet again but if this prompts anybody to think of an idea that would fix this annoyance, or something to experiment with, please be my guest.Thanks.JSP.S. The ILS into KDCA, a homne airport for me, is a bloody disaster. The nav rad switches to a totally different ILS arrival before crossing the aximuth for the runway 1 ILS. Darn these bugs !:~P :-fume :-mad :-bla

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Man, that's totally bizare. After installing the KPDX ILS update to fix 28L (I think) I haven't had any ILS problems with any airports. I fly KSEA all the time and fly to KPDX often. Have a feeling something is goofy with your FS install somehow. Maybe one of the gauge packs you installed fowled something up? Hope you're able to figure it out :(

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I don't know if I can figure it out!.I have wondered if I should try to reinstal FS2002 and see if that makes it better. I am really out of ny otht ideas. I thought it might be a radio gauge or some such thing but I have no idea how any of that stuff works in terms of coding and interpretation, etc.JS

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JS,I too have only recently found this problem with my home airport and I know it used to work OK.I have uninstalled a local scenery but the problem persists so I am going to do fresh install of FS and all my add-ons....wish me luck :-lol I was going to do it anyway to put FS on a fresh HD, just hope it cures the problem.

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>airports or whatever, but there is a bug in FS2002 that >makes an ILS approach to an arrival-reciprocal runway with a >single radio frequency a totally random affair. Last time I did my best to explain that this is your precedural error how you fly the ILS and not the bug in FS2002. After expending so many words clearly in vain I am not about to do it again. I have absolutely no problem flying ILS to runways with the same frequency at both ends. The only way to 'fix' this bug is to have option to turn on/off ILS manually at either end - sort of what real tower controllers do. Whether they do it or not I have no clue.Michael J.

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Michael:I assure you this is NOT a procedural error. I have two PCs with FS2002. I have many identical saved files with ILS approaches on each. On one PC the ILs approaches for certain airports works fine; on the other one, it does not. It has nothing to do with the way I intercept or cross the runway azimuth etc. I repeat this is NOT procedural. It is a technology issue related to the programming or coding or the way the application runs; there may be corruption involved. That is why I am posting here again. I am delighted that you have no problems flying an ILS with the same frequency at both ends of the same runway and wish I had the same good fortune. It used to be thus. Something happened within the PC or within FS2002. It's nothing to do with the way I fly. That said, I DID in fact do exactly as you suggested last time, several times, but it did nothing to cure the problem. I did what you suggested just in case it was a procedural issue, but it is not.You can see that others have similar issues to me both here and in prior threads.JS

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>On one PC the ILs approaches for >certain airports works fine; on the other one, it does not. JS,You then answered yourself. If this is the case then there is some corruption with one of your FS2002 installations.Michael J.

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Dear Vulcan:Would you perhaps post if a fresh instal of FS2002 cures the problem for you? If so, I will do so as well.Good luck.Thanks!!JSP.S. Do you know or does anybody else out there know if uninstalling and reinstalling FS2002 will delete any 3rd party add-ons or saved flights, etc.?

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Sorry Michael your explaination does not work, at least not in my case even if I delete my add-on EGCC airport and go back to the default MS scenery.The ILS at EGCC has worked perfectly in the past, something has changed to make it behave as a BC. In fact I think I replied to your post where you first mentioned your 'fix' to explaine that 'correct' porcedure did not change the ILS reading one bit.In the past I have been involved with a similar problem at Bristol in UK; some people were getting BC readings, I was not and each of us had the same add-on scenery.I seem to remeber a thread quite a long time ago about reselecting the ILS frequency on Nav1, something to do with FS picking up a 'default' one, but I cannot remember the details.Rgds

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Vulcan:In Nick Dargahi's encyclopaedic book The Ultimate Flight Simulator Pilot's GuideBook (a must-have tome!), he writes (about FS98) on page 504 about how there are sometimes 2 localizers active on a single runway and how FS does not know which end you are intending to land on. He goes on to mention that FS98 has (had!) a feature in which you could select LOCALIZER 1 for the lower numbered runway and LOCALIZER 2 for the higher number runway through the menu Aircraft/Navigation/Nav Radios.This function no longer exists in FS2002. You CAN select an EFIS display with colored boxes and you can elect to display the intercept path as well and ask to lock on to the ILS or the VOR in FS2002. I've just tried this at KJFK (into 31L) with great success, but it was a disaster at KPDX because of the inversion of runway headings that has been driving me mad for several weeks now.There are no more options within FS2002. The sole remaining option is to uninstal FS2002 and then reinstal the whole thing which seems slightly risky and sort of crazy to try and fix this. I mean, if it worked for both of us perfectly in the beginning and got corrupted somehow, how can we be sure this will not occur again?Anyway, I guess we will each decide what we wish to risk doing!Post again and I'll reply if I can be of any use in the miserable affair.Cheers!JS

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Minor addition to post above:"....two localizers are active ON THE SAME FREQUENCY."Important addition!!!!JS

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Had a similar problem when I installed the KPDX fix for the 28L ILS. All of a sudden, all of the ILS in the U.S. NW with dual localizers(single frequency) were reversed, and I couldn't get the GS on either side.Anyhow, it involved some debugging, and to make this story short, the bug was:- When I installed the new usnwils.bgl, I renamed the default FS2002 usnwils.bgl as "usnwils.bgl old"Well, FS2002 still loaded the old one as well as the new one, thus the snafu.So, had to change the old one to "usnwils.bgl.old", notice the "." Period between bgl and old which I didn't have before.Everything works as advertised, the Nav1 tunes into the correct localizer depending on which heading I am from runway, etc. It's not an FS2002 bug this time.I also went back through my FS2002 to fix any other files I had renamed as "xxx yyy", changing them to "xxx.yyy", and this actually fixed a few crashes I was having.One place to look ...

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Ian, you're a star That was the pointer I needed to cure EGCC.When I looked in the scenedb folder I found I had eurnwils.bgl and copy of eurnwils.bgl, deleted the copy and the ILS for EGCC is now correct.I seem to recall some add-on scenery had an *ils.bgl file to add so that may be where the copy came from.What I don't understand is why my normal naming convention fell apart.If I replace a file with a new one, as in this case,I normally rename the original as *.bg# or *.org depending on which makes sense. as the file extension is changed there is no danger of FS trying to load the file.JS, hope this fix helps you also.Again thanks a million Ian, and at least it proves it has nothing to do with how you approach the runway, sorry Michael ;-) j/k.

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Glad you guys worked this out. I have seen recommendationsNOT to leave any *.bgl around. It was rec to use .Originalinstead. (this includes air facility and traffic files as well.)I see that in the default eurnwils.bgl that IMM and INN at EGCC are both on 109.5 and BC is not available.But I guess we now know this is not the problem at all.scott s..

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Ian:An FS kiss is in order! I just got home from work, tore off my suit, and booted up to edit many bgl files and guess what? Your fix works!Holy Madre de Dios, yes!It worketh!!!I am thrilled to bits.I am puzzled that my renaming protocol for the scenery .bgl )or whatever they are/were) files failed because I always keep old files with the protocol "*_original.* and it has NEVER failed me yet. Till now. It failed with regard to all .bgl files for scenery. No wonder all of my U.s. fix files did not work and no wonder the whole localizer for half the U.s. was a mess.Thanks so HUGELY for your post and words.Everybody: see? if you think you have a fix or an idea for an FS problem, no matter how crazy or otherwise, please post. If it worked for you, it could work for others!Buy a beer for yourself and everybody on this thread, Ian. Make that two beers apiece. And it's on me.And the kiss too!Thanks, mate.Cheers!JSP.S. Vulcan, you must be feeling thrilled too, eh?!

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Vulcan:Just a P.S. to this thread from me. I forgot to mention that what Ian's post actually triggered in me was the notion to DELETE any remotely duplicate bgl file or one that MIGHT or COULD be recognized by FS. I did not actually use his protocol although I am sure it would provide an adequate "shield" from FS recognition, and so I have printed it out and will file it in my permanent FS2002 file.I corresponded with the mighty Pete Dowson (of FSUIPC fame) during this thread to seek his assistance and one item that he mentioned was the danger of renaming old versions of the same file and how they sometimes can STILL be recognized and picked up by the sim as a result, e.g. FSUIPC itself !So, I just deleted about ten original bgl files and fixes after downloading the huge navaid fix zip file about a month ago where I had all of the original bgl and related files still hanging around that were improperly back-up by me.Man, it feels good to SEE the LOC and GS scales appear as I approach KPDX in pouring rain again. And KSEA....and KDEN....and KJFK....and hopefully all over the rest of America and the world from now on.Cheers!JS

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Dear JS,Early on I posted a reply to this thread, then thought better of it and editted everything out. My post was calling you to task for blaming this fiasco on Microsoft because even back then I didn't think that this was a MS problem. Now that the culprit is known ("We have met the enemy and it is us."), I am compelled to comment. I think that you owe MS an apology. Not that they (with their broad shoulders, as well as deep pockets) are likely to care; indeed they'll probably not even know, but it would be the right thing to do. I, herewith, remind you of your first post. R- "I know I posted a month ago about runways with the same ILS frequencies for both ends of the same runway not working for me and several folks posted replies. This has become a significant issue for me and . . .*** I wonder if MS will fix it in the next edition of FS. ***. . . After a lovely 5 hour test flight in a POSKY 777-200ER with PSS panel, I decided to land at KDEN. But just as I'd found at KPDX and then KSEA in recent weeks, to my annoyance, when I tuned the ILS for the arrival runway, it indicated the reciprocal runway heading on the ND of the PSS panel. I knew immediately that this was another major airport with ILS googlies for me. I tried 8 other ILS runway headings at KDEN and every time, the ND indicated reciprocal runway heading tuning. I finally slewed over to Dallas Ft Worth and successfully tuned an ILS and autolanded--on a runway with a single ILS frequency for both headings !It's fantastically annoying to fly for hours and have this sort of thing happen. . . .*** MS may have modelled 28,000 ILS or airports or whatever, but there is a bug in FS2002 that makes an ILS approach to an arrival-reciprocal runway with a single radio frequency a totally random affair. To have this happen at major airports is just not acceptable, I'm sorry, but MS has fallen down on this one badly in this edition. *** "There! Now I feel better. R-

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Was thinking the exact same thing earlier this evening.......... and also dumped the reply before hitting the send button!L.Adamson

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In a way, Larry, it is a bug, or "undocumented feature" as Microsoft would say.The graphics engine does not read the names of the bgl files it needs to load (as one would expect, since this would simply be following normal standards), but rather the internal headers.So, even if you change the name of the bgl, this will make no difference at all.To top it off, Microsoft makes no mention of this anywhere, so you are really on your own.Only Peter Dowson mentions this fact in the documentation to his utility.The moral of the story is: do not rename your file (i.e. eurnw.bgl.original), but rather take it out of its folder altogether.Best regards.Luis

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"In a way, Larry, it is a bug, or "undocumented feature" as Microsoft would say."Uncle (sigh). R-

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Dear Microsoft:I recently blamed you for screwing up my FS2002 because all the localizers and ILS approaches for the sim were messed up and operating incorrectly for most of the U.S. on my machine. I forgot that I'd added many bgl fixes to the app and this is what caused the problem. I found that out yesterday and fixed it. The sim now works better than ever. I am sorry for blaming you for my error. I am wearing a hair shirt for the next 30 days.Your faithfully, JS

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I'm with all of you guys! The other day I was doing the ILS into Sacramento, CA with the FFG BBJ and I thought the ILS would take me to the runway, well it wanted me to nose dive into the ground about 100ft short of the runway, so what did I do, I turned off the A/P and put it down myself. This issue better get fixed in the next FS version.

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