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To All those who hate Virtual Cockpits....

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I find it hard to understand why many have a problem with Virtual Cockpits. Surly many must know that this is the next evolution in flight simulation. Sure we may not be able to see every single gauge work (depending on developer) or click every switch but this will surly change in the not so distant future. I can

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I agree 100%The full movement of the head in the VC is as it is in real life except that you can turn 360 deg. The fixed view approach in the 2d panel is not modeled after real life. Facts cannot be argued but try if you like.BobG

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why must people continue to try and sell this? If the next version comes with only VC then so be it. If you like the VC then keep using it. Just stop trying to sell it to those who like both or just one.Get on with your life.

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WAD3,The whole point for having this forum is to expose arguments and to conduct discussions around related topics, especially when there is controversy.Your opinion is respected but please refrain from using a sentence like "stop trying to convince us and get on with your life"...By the way, I didn't like the VC's at first, but it is my humble opinion that those have tremendously improved in the last 6 months(check the excellent freeware Focke Wulf 200 Condor...)CheersTwister

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Because they are useless when flying IFR for the very reason that you gave..."we may not be able to see every single gauge work (depending on developer) or click every switch."

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Unless the VCs are fully, completely functional in the future of FS, I'll stick to my beloved 2D panels. There's something about the VC that I can't put a finger on, that just makes it feel weird. We'll see where FS2k4 takes us in regard to VCs. If they can make them as functional as today's 2D panels, then I'll use them. If no significant advance is made in FS2k4, then I probably won't be buying it.

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That's another thing, VCs are great for the GA and light A/C, but for people who fly the heavies like me, the 2D just works better. :)

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When and if the virtual cockpits reach the same clarity, readability, and every instrument works I will embrace them fully also.Right now I cannot practice real flight well enough with instruments not workable. I jump in now when I want to look around with my head-especially with cam2pan, and for total vfr immersion.But for practicing seriously for instrument flying they just are not there yet. The rugged look of 3d views (seats, knobs etc.) vs. photographic quality views of 2d also suspends reality somewhat for the viewpoints also. The lack of a realistic nose view (as I posted some compare pictures) actually precludes practicing maneuvers that require precise eyepoints that I am working on in my commercial right now such as chandelles and turns around a pylon.See for shots:http://ftp.avsim.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboa...ewmode=threadedhttp://members.telocity.com/~geof43/Geofdog2.gif

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Brother Dilloll0,I understand your passion and desire to preach the gospel of the Virtual Cockpit. You've stepped before the masses and spread the word. :-haloHowever, like some people that preach their beliefs to others, they are often willing to overlook the faults in light of the future potential. But fear not, those faults will be fixed and the world will head for the promised land. :-wink2Come on.... the reality is that virtual cockpits are still in their infancy. Anyone old enough to remember how Star Wars was "ahead of it's time" with special effects? Ask a kid today about that movie and they laugh.. "it's cheesy". I'm sure we will all be looking back in years ahead and laughing at what we thought were amazing VCs.I'm neutral on the matter. I see the potiental, but I'm not prepared to use it if I can't do IFR work with it, or if I feel like I'm flying a cartoon airplane in FS.Finally, I don't appreciate the comment that I should just stick with a Playstation or XBox if I prefer to use a 2D panel. I think that's a narrow viewpoint fostered by an equally narrow viewpoint that the VC is currently the one and only cockpit to use. You see, I can't practice my IFR work on a VC or on a playstation. ;)I'll go back now and put on my neck brace. It's time to shoot some ILS approaches at minimums.Bruce

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I had no idea that some people don't like VCs!!! ;) for me they are the greatest!, then again I use 3D glasses and a Head Tracking thingy to move my perspective as I move my head, just like when I'm on a real airplane.I will tell you as a real pilot, VCs are great, they need some work but I trully belive this is the future, it will take some time for people to embrace them but that also depends on the developers making them functional and fun.Try to get some 3D glasses and head tracking hardware, I guarantee you'll just LOVE the VCs, in fact you will never fly in 2D anymore (except to move the switches but that will change in the new future).I respect anyone who likes the 2D cockpits, we all did it for more than 10 years!, but give this new technology a chance, after all is there to make it "more" real, to be more fun and a true "new" thing in flight simulation.Best of luck!

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For me the main problem (quite aside from not being able to toggle switches, for most of them that I need quickly or often I have either the keyboard shortcuts (now where's that for realism) memorised or they're programmed to buttons on my yoke) is the lack of clarity.If I can't see what a gauge tells me (even IF it moves) it could as well not be there.Add to that that most VCs have quite bad zoomlevels (forcing you to either zoom out a lot or not see anything but the glareshield) and you have my main reason not to use them.I am starting to use VCs for some points of flight, mainly timing the turn to final which is easier, but for the rest it's 90% 2D panels for me.If a next version of FS removes the 2D pit completely, I'll pass on it unless the VC quality and functionality is at least as good and complete as that of current 2D pits.This is possible, sims like Jane's F/A-18 and iMagic iF-22 did it years ago but those were special sims geared around a single aircraft and had a very limited scenery engine (at least as compared to FS200x) which makes implementing a fully functional high quality (for the time) virtual cockpit a lot easier without sacrificing performance to a point where the sim becomes useless to the majority of the target audience.

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My 2 cents on this - I would love nothing better than virtual cockpits but it just isn't there yet. It is still in a very preliminary alpha stage. I am waiting for the day when it will be possible to have clear images (rather than the current fuzzy and dark images), ability to zoom in and out of a certain portion of the cockpit and click and manipulate buttons/switches. Till then, I still prefer to fly 2D cockpits. The only virtual cockpit I have found some what acceptable so far is the default cessna. The virtual cockpit of fs2k2 is only slightly better than that of flight unlimited III (which was developed like 10 years ago!).

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Pimienta, Try using the VC for an IFR approach. It's more of a hassle than it's worth.

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The VC's have come along way since Flight Unlimited III. Much more detail and working guages. On a 22" monitor, some of them can look quite good, as well as being focused and easily readable. The following are the RealAir SF260, Dreamfleet CardinalRG, and the freeware Robin DR400. I use combinations of 2D & the VC's but stick to 2D's for commercial airliner type aircraft.L.Adamson

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Hi Edam,ALL my IFR approaches are done using the Virtual Cockpit in fact I'm in VC around 90% of the time, so yes it can be a little weird at first but when you get used to it it's great!, give it a try.And why the hassle?, you set the ILS freq, the final OBS bearing and after that is all stick and rudder, flaps, power, gear and lights, you can do all this with keyboard shortcuts or have the controls mapped to a flight yoke, I really don't see the hassle.Best of luck.

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Which airplane is that second pic above. I like that one. First VC I've seen that looks really good (with exception of Falcon50). Course I haven't tried the payware aircraft with 3d views yet. I turned off the VC views by setting "see self=0" in the main cfg file a long time ago. I use 2d panels most all the time and that way I can put in 2d wrap around views. If I want to switch to the 3d pit when I fly a jet, now and then, I just switch to the 3d view so I have the 3d wrap around views. I hope MS doesn't do away with 2d pits in FS2k4. Technology isn't ready for that yet. Especially not in a civilian sim.

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I am curious-on the approach how do you tune the radio to the tower at the marker, or adjust the heading bug, or use the autopilot with a vc?I suppose one could punch a keyboard-but....The big one for me though is the smoothness of instruments-they are way more jerky in the vc than in the 2d. This makes precise ifr flying very difficult.I guess I am in the unique position of being one of the few persons that has their own personal aircraft done in FS-down to the instruments being made from photos. The 2d just looks and therefore feels more like the real craft-and I think the virtual cockpit is outstanding-it just isn't up to the same level yet. When I pan around the cabin in the vc it just doesn't have the reality of the 2d views that are also made from photographs.For record am not against vc's-I use them all the time at various stages of the flight-just find the 2d more useful for real procedures.Perhaps future improvements will keep everyone happy-but the answer in flight sims always seems to be let the end user decide what they like best.http://members.telocity.com/~geof43/Geofdog2.gif

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they really hack into my performance on a p3 500....i don

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I haven't seen many VCs that cause a huge frame rate hit if any. Certainty not on the level of Wilco's Airport 2002.

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We're all used to the 2D panels and getting used to the VCs does take a little bit of practice. I mostly fly with the VC now - it is far more natural. I recently got Active Camera which puts the VC on a par with IL-2. Certainly, visual flight, circuits, and landing are all easier/better with the VC because of the freedom of movement and the more natural view ahead. I don't think MS did themselves any favours though with the way you are introduced to the VC. The default zoom is wrong (should be around 0.71%) and they should have implemented panning and zooming with the mouse (thankfully resolved with Active Camera). I'm guessing that most of the VC haters are people that fly the big jets, normally IFR. I love the VC for VFR in a GA plane, but I can imagine that they would be inappropriate for IFR - you need to be able to focus clearly on the panel and control your panel using the controls on it. My main gripe with the VC is you can't control any aircraft systems with it. On a more complex aircraft you would have to remember an awful lot of key commands without the 2D panel.I'm looking forward to a VC with all the functionality that the 2D panels offer and the same level of clarity. I'm hoping to see that happen in FS2k4...

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Hey, If M$ can make a truly functional VC in FS2k4, then I'm all for it. :)But then, anytime a freeware developer makes an add-on plane, a VC would have to be built into the model, correct? I'm interested to see how much different the add-on creation will be in FS2k4. Hopefully our great FS2002 planes will be compatible.

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>I find it hard to understand why many have a problem with >Virtual Cockpits. My "problem" with VC is mainly esthetics. Most VC cockpits remind me of sitting in a cheap plywood constuction. And if this is so - realism goes down the drain. So try to make this Herculean mental effort and understand that there are multitude of reasons why VC are not liked by some. If you like them - more power to you.Michael J.[link:jdtllc.com]http://jdtllc.com/images/RCsupporter.jpg

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In addition, it tough to create your own cockpit using a 3D Virtual cockpit. That is, if you want to use multiple monitors to use for different instruments, you can't using a 3D model. I think....Robb

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We have seen quite a progression in virtual cockpits over the years. It seems to me that the Pacfific air combat sim from Microprose had a VC quite a few years ago. It was pixelated and the instrument's didn't work. Someone else mentioned FU3 - those VC's were pretty horrific compared to FS2k2.With the next version of MSFS I think we will have increased detail in the VC's and clickable instruments/controls.For now, I have found a couple of things recently that really enhance the VC's for light plane flying:* Others have mentioned ActiveCamera. It's pretty cool. THe head motion effect is pretty darn immersive, as long as you keep it on the low end in the configuration settings. It sort of takes away the "flatness" of flying the computer and provides a greater sense of being in motion. I'm not sure if it is realistic or not (I am not a pilot), but it sure is neat.* Just using FSUIPC to configure my spacebar to zoom in and out with a single keypress makes it much easier to make detailed flight corrections and check some of the smaller instruments. I just press the spacebar, and then let go of it to return to my previous zoom setting. The detail of the instruments scale with the zoom so they might look a bit pixelated at 60% bit they are sharp and clear at 110%.However, until the state of the art of VC's get redefined (and I am in no hurry to upgrade my computer for FS2k4 - I still need to upgrade for this version!), I certainly think people have a valid reason to stick with 2d panels. To each his own. live and let live.

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