If I wan't one of the coming Penryn CPUs that should be significantly better than a current Intel core2duo E6750 and should not cost more than such a E6750 does now. And in addition to that if I also wan't one of the coming NVIDIA 9800 which should be significantly better and not cost more then the current 8800.If so then how long will I have to wait?

That depends on what AMD does, where the prices go.To me "significantly better" would be 30-40% faster. Penryn is only 10-20% faster on the benches. So be guarded about your expectations with Penryn. Penryn is indeed more than a shrunk (45nm) Conroe, but it is also a mere extension of existing Core2 designs. So it is not THAT much faster--just a little."Just a little" though, is pretty good for us FS people. Every little bit helps us a lot.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

I'm in the same boat your in. I just lost my system from a lightning strike,so I'm waiting til the Nvidia 9800 is released (Should be mid-November from the rumors going around) before I commit myself to a new system. While I don't think it will make to much difference with the DX9 FSX, which as we all know is impacted mostly by CPU, it may be a different story with the DX10 SP2 patched FSX. It's 1 Terraflop shader computational performance may come in handy! If the Penryns come out around the same time, and is within my price range, so much the better!

Rhett: the Penryn we are testing here (with a X38 Motherboard, OC to 5Mhz) shows about 100% performance improvement in FSX under stress (New York Area, full AI) . See my other posts. OP: you need to wait until mid-November for the Extreme version, which will cost USD 1000, or until January for the lower priced Yorkshires (USD 3xx). As for the video card, we are all hoping for a December release, but I personally expect it to be mid-January before the 10.1 cards will actually be available.

>Rhett: the Penryn we are testing here (with a X38>Motherboard, OC to 5Mhz) shows about 100% performance>improvement in FSX under stress (New York Area, full AI) . See>my other posts. >Whoa! That's great news! I will have to find your other posts!The comparisons I saw were not overclocked and was actually quite a low clock speed (1.8 or 2.0, can't remember). Better "under stress" performance is exactly what we need. Maybe DDR3 helps? I'll have to see if you are using DDR3.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

We tried DDR2 and DDR3 (its a new Asus MB under test), with no difference in performance. There are some issues though with OC when using DDR3, I am sure the technicians will explain that better than I can.We are also seeing a big difference between the multiplier enabled (expensive) Penryn and the cheaper models. But there may be changes made yet to the lower priced models, I don't think they are finalized. IN any case the new generation together with the X38 chipset allow for massive OC gains.

I am interested in your "other posts" about this you allude to.I cannot find them here. Where are they?RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

>>Rhett: the Penryn we are testing here (with a X38>>Motherboard, OC to 5Mhz) shows about 100% performance>>improvement in FSX under stress (New York Area, full AI) .>See>>my other posts. >>>>Whoa! That's great news! I will have to find your other>posts!>So if I get 5fps over NY with 100% AI, I will get 10fps with the Penryn. Whoa!!!! Allmost flyable ;-)Ulf B

The Penryns are going to be an overclocking challenge. That darn 1333 FSB is gonna be a real PITA. Consider: Penryn's $300, Q6600 replacement will be clocked at 2.6ghz. That means it will have an 8 multiplier. The highest stable clock on even the X38/48 mobos will around 450mhz. They might go to 500+, but not for we common folk. Here's the penryn math. 450FSB x 8 = 3.6Ghz. See what's happening? The best non-super-geek O/C we will be able to get from a $300 penryn will be 3.6ghz. That's exactly what we are getting with the Q6600 now. The penryn has a 10% clock for clock advantage over the conroe. With the penryn and the conroe both running at 3.6ghz, expect a 10% increase in performance. Dollar for dollar, a 100% performance claim is misleading. A 30% performance increase might be possible, but it's gonna cost . . . big-time. How big-time? If you want to spend $500 you can get a 9 multiplier and go to (450 x 9 = ) 4.0ghx. Spend $1000 and get an unlocked (10+) multiplier and get to (450 x 10+ = )4.5 +ghz.This 5ghz O/C we are hearing about is with a $1000 CPU and one of the new $300+ X38 mobos.$1300 for a 30% increase? Consider prudently.On the Vcard front, the 9800 is still a ways off. Nvidia's November Card will be the 8800GT. This will be a fantastic bargain at $250, but it is still slightly less performance than the 8800GTX. It is NoT the supercard the web has been wibbling about. I have read Jan 08, or Spring 08 . . . or really, no one knows when the Monster will be "unleashed."I would suggest the time for an upgrade from a C2D is, - not now - . If you already have a C2D, at least for Nethalem (Q2-3/08).

my 100% refer to a Q6600 system. If you are getting 5 fps with that then there is something wrong with your system.

Your statements about the cheaper Yorkshires are premature. Even the early models available so far have gone beyond 4 GHz (air-cooled only). I fully expect the $300 models to reach 4,3 - 4,5 on a well cooled system and new MB. Next week we will be installing the Yorkshire on different motherboards. The performance increase I reported depends as much on the new CPU as on the new MB under testing, but it's difficult to say until we run further tests.

They're really getting this down pat. A C2 running at 4.5 on air. Yoawzza! Seems to me the considerations are 2 fold. Will the new mobos let a 7-8 multiplier run to the CPU's full potential with the rock solid stability a normal user needs? Likely not. Second, is a 30% performance boost worth the upgrade cost from a current C2 build? Remember it'll cost ya a new mobo, CPU and . . . if you're gonna 'rock it out' to a 500mhz+ FSB, DDR800 ram will likely need replaced as well. DDR800 might not go all the way to DDR1000+. This whole rig is gonna be right on the performance edge. I like it there, but others might not be so adventurous. Also, the Penryn will be the LasT FSB CPU. The Nethalem will have that new (hypertransport look-a-like) Quick Path Interonnect (QPI) buss. Will QPI even support DDR2, Vcard PCI-e, or gadget PCI devices? I haven't heard, but it Will be a Major change. It's likely that Virtually nothing in a Penryn build will swap over. Call it a business model. This will be a 'throw-away' build. The Penryn upgrade path is a dead end. An upgrade path might be to just stay with an existing C2D build and skip this "last gasp, 30% bump" C2/Penryn cycle.

>Rhett: the Penryn we are testing here (with a X38>Motherboard, OC to 5Mhz) shows about 100% performanceCan I really safely assume that I will be able to OC that much?>OP: you need to wait until mid-November for the Extreme>version, which will cost USD 1000, or until January for the>lower priced Yorkshires (USD 3xx). >Those prices mean that these Yorkshires are the only option for me. What performence boost can they give?

>I would suggest the time for an upgrade from a C2D is, - not>now - . If you already have a C2D, at least for Nethalem>(Q2-3/08). New CPU so soon after Penryn? How will they compare to Penryn in regard to performence? For me it appears that it's not time now for upgrade even if I have AMD 64 3200+.

>The Penryn upgrade path is a dead end. An upgrade path might>be to just stay with an existing C2D build and skip this "last>gasp, 30% bump" C2/Penryn cycle. ...unless you skipped the Conroe/Merom/1st gen Core2 designs...That's what I get for building my FS rig in Dec 05/Jan06. :) At that time, I remembered (not fondly) the ungainly attempts at dual-core cpu's in the past (dual socket motherboards, etc.) and I decided to build a temporary rig for FS using tried-and-true technology, rather than "risk it" by spending a lot of money on something that I was not sure would pan out.That tried-and-true design was Socket 939 A64 platform.That build was never intended to last me this long, but it has far exceeded my FSX expectations.But the drawback has meant that the 1st gen Core2 was passed over by me. However the reports of FS performance using top line Core2's today now means that I cannot wait until 2008 to go Nehalem. I'll be missing too much good FS performance.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian