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Pitch Trim & Aileron Sensitivity when disengaging AP

Featured Replies

Hi,I've seen the earlier posts regarding pitch trim sensitivity. When I hand fly the Tinmouse II, I have no problems with pitch trim. But when I engage the autopilot to fly it in CWS mode, after disengaging the AP and going back to hand flying, I find that the pitch trim, as well as aileron control, are a lot more sensitive, to the point of being excessive, as compared to hand flying before engaging the autopilot. Anyone else have this situation? Any clues to what might be going wrong? I have the electrical & hydraulic systems set properly in the overhead panel.Mike A.

I don't know about sensitivity, but I find that when I disengauge the AP, I see a strong "pull up" tendency. I doubt this is correct as the AP is supposed to trim to stable. Not sure about the sensitivy though issue though.regards,Macs :)

Are you seeing increased sensitivity at the same indicated A/S and mach number? If you engage the CWS in a climb, then disengage at altitude where the mach number is much higher, yes, you will see considerably more pitch sensitivity. I can't reproduce a change when the CWS is engaged and disengaged at the same speeds.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

Bob Scott | President and CEO, AVSIM Inc
ATP Gulfstream II-III-IV-V

Sys1 (MSFS20+24/XPlane12+11): AMD 9800X3D, water 2x240mm, MSI MPG X670E Carbon, 64GB GSkill 6000/30, nVidia RTX4090FE
Alienware AW3821DW 38" 21:9 GSync, 2x4TB Crucial T705 PCIe5 + 2x2TB Samsung 990 SSD, EVGA 1000P2 PSU, 12.9" iPad Pro
Thrustmaster TCA Boeing Yoke, TCA Airbus Sidestick, Twin TCA Airbus Throttle quads, PFC Cirrus Pedals, Coolermaster HAF932 case

Sys2 (P3Dv5/v4): i9-13900KS, water 2x360mm, ASUS Z790 Hero, 32GB GSkill 7800MHz CAS36, ASUS RTX4090
Samsung 55" JS8500 4K TV@60Hz,
3x 2TB WD SN850X 1x 4TB Crucial P3 M.2 NVME SSD, EVGA 1600T2 PSU
Fiber link to Yamaha RX-V467 Home Theater Receiver, Polk/Klipsch 6" bookshelf speakers, Polk 12" subwoofer, 12.9" iPad Pro
PFC yoke/throttle quad/pedals with custom Hall sensor retrofit, Thermaltake View 71 case, Stream Deck XL button box

Sys3 (DCS/P3Dv4/ATS/ETS): AMD 7800X3D, MSI MPG X870E Carbon, Noctua NH-D15S, 64GB GSkill 6000/30, EVGA RTX3090
Alienware AW3420DW 34" 21:9 GSync, Corsair HX1000i PSU, 4TB Crucial T705 PCIe5 + 2TB Samsung 970Evo Plus,
TM TCA Officer Pack
, Saitek combat pedals, TM Warthog, TM RS300 FF wheel/pedals, Coolermaster HAF XB case

Bob, I am not sure about increased sensitivity, but whenever I turn the AP off on final, the airplane pitches up violently. I make a point not to touch the joystick when I disengage the AP, so it is not user induced. Any ideas? Thanks,regards,Macs :)

  • Author

Hi Bob,Just to confirm it, I did an approach, speeds below 200 kts. Before engaging AP, applying pitch trim seemed normal. Engaged the AP for a minute, then disengaged it, applied pitch trim, and it was greatly exaggerated. Aileron control seemed OK.Mike A.

Please send me the weight, CG, and configuration you're using. I can't reproduce it. I get a mild and barely noticeable pitch up when disconnecting the AP at the end of a precision approach. It sounds like this might be a loading/weight and balance issue.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

Bob Scott | President and CEO, AVSIM Inc
ATP Gulfstream II-III-IV-V

Sys1 (MSFS20+24/XPlane12+11): AMD 9800X3D, water 2x240mm, MSI MPG X670E Carbon, 64GB GSkill 6000/30, nVidia RTX4090FE
Alienware AW3821DW 38" 21:9 GSync, 2x4TB Crucial T705 PCIe5 + 2x2TB Samsung 990 SSD, EVGA 1000P2 PSU, 12.9" iPad Pro
Thrustmaster TCA Boeing Yoke, TCA Airbus Sidestick, Twin TCA Airbus Throttle quads, PFC Cirrus Pedals, Coolermaster HAF932 case

Sys2 (P3Dv5/v4): i9-13900KS, water 2x360mm, ASUS Z790 Hero, 32GB GSkill 7800MHz CAS36, ASUS RTX4090
Samsung 55" JS8500 4K TV@60Hz,
3x 2TB WD SN850X 1x 4TB Crucial P3 M.2 NVME SSD, EVGA 1600T2 PSU
Fiber link to Yamaha RX-V467 Home Theater Receiver, Polk/Klipsch 6" bookshelf speakers, Polk 12" subwoofer, 12.9" iPad Pro
PFC yoke/throttle quad/pedals with custom Hall sensor retrofit, Thermaltake View 71 case, Stream Deck XL button box

Sys3 (DCS/P3Dv4/ATS/ETS): AMD 7800X3D, MSI MPG X870E Carbon, Noctua NH-D15S, 64GB GSkill 6000/30, EVGA RTX3090
Alienware AW3420DW 34" 21:9 GSync, Corsair HX1000i PSU, 4TB Crucial T705 PCIe5 + 2TB Samsung 970Evo Plus,
TM TCA Officer Pack
, Saitek combat pedals, TM Warthog, TM RS300 FF wheel/pedals, Coolermaster HAF XB case

Hi Bob,It's not an IAS sensitivty issue. The issue being that the trim speed more than doubles after disconnecting the AP as opposed to the trim speed prior to the first AP engagement.Cheers,JohnBoeing 727/737 & Lockheed C-130/L-100 Mechanichttp://www.sstsim.com/images/team/JR.jpg

I still can't reproduce it or find anything in the code that would affect the trim speed. I normally program my joystick buttons (including trim) using the Buttons + Switches tab in FSUIPC, but I've tried direct with only the FS interface and still see no change in the rate of trim application before and after use of the A/P.Another possibility is the dreaded control acceleration problem in FS, which FSUIPC (the payware version) easily fixes if you select the "fix control acceleration" checkbox in the FSUIPC Misc tab. The control acceleraton problem could result from the rapidly arriving internal FS controls sent by the panel gauges...if that's it, the only fix I know of, short of dumbing down the panel significantly, is in the payware version of FSUIPC.CheersBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

Bob Scott | President and CEO, AVSIM Inc
ATP Gulfstream II-III-IV-V

Sys1 (MSFS20+24/XPlane12+11): AMD 9800X3D, water 2x240mm, MSI MPG X670E Carbon, 64GB GSkill 6000/30, nVidia RTX4090FE
Alienware AW3821DW 38" 21:9 GSync, 2x4TB Crucial T705 PCIe5 + 2x2TB Samsung 990 SSD, EVGA 1000P2 PSU, 12.9" iPad Pro
Thrustmaster TCA Boeing Yoke, TCA Airbus Sidestick, Twin TCA Airbus Throttle quads, PFC Cirrus Pedals, Coolermaster HAF932 case

Sys2 (P3Dv5/v4): i9-13900KS, water 2x360mm, ASUS Z790 Hero, 32GB GSkill 7800MHz CAS36, ASUS RTX4090
Samsung 55" JS8500 4K TV@60Hz,
3x 2TB WD SN850X 1x 4TB Crucial P3 M.2 NVME SSD, EVGA 1600T2 PSU
Fiber link to Yamaha RX-V467 Home Theater Receiver, Polk/Klipsch 6" bookshelf speakers, Polk 12" subwoofer, 12.9" iPad Pro
PFC yoke/throttle quad/pedals with custom Hall sensor retrofit, Thermaltake View 71 case, Stream Deck XL button box

Sys3 (DCS/P3Dv4/ATS/ETS): AMD 7800X3D, MSI MPG X870E Carbon, Noctua NH-D15S, 64GB GSkill 6000/30, EVGA RTX3090
Alienware AW3420DW 34" 21:9 GSync, Corsair HX1000i PSU, 4TB Crucial T705 PCIe5 + 2TB Samsung 970Evo Plus,
TM TCA Officer Pack
, Saitek combat pedals, TM Warthog, TM RS300 FF wheel/pedals, Coolermaster HAF XB case

  • Author

Hi Bob,Thanks so much for your reply. I wasn't aware of the control acceleration glitch. I checked that box in FSUIPC, and now it works fine. Now I can do some longer flights using the AP instead of hand flying all the time :-yellow1 . Thanks again!Mike A.

Bob,FS is the culprit and FSUIPC takes care of it. I had forgotten about this issue, as it had happened on other aircraft as I remember. Just check on the "fix control acceleration box" and whala! This did the trick fer me! :) Thanks agian Bob! :)regards,Macs :)P.S.: Please DON'T "dumb down" the panel. Please!!! :)

Thanks gents...saved me from embarking on a fruitless goose chase.Regarding any "dumbing down" of the panel...no worries, in fact the next version will be going in quite the opposite direction.CheersBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

Bob Scott | President and CEO, AVSIM Inc
ATP Gulfstream II-III-IV-V

Sys1 (MSFS20+24/XPlane12+11): AMD 9800X3D, water 2x240mm, MSI MPG X670E Carbon, 64GB GSkill 6000/30, nVidia RTX4090FE
Alienware AW3821DW 38" 21:9 GSync, 2x4TB Crucial T705 PCIe5 + 2x2TB Samsung 990 SSD, EVGA 1000P2 PSU, 12.9" iPad Pro
Thrustmaster TCA Boeing Yoke, TCA Airbus Sidestick, Twin TCA Airbus Throttle quads, PFC Cirrus Pedals, Coolermaster HAF932 case

Sys2 (P3Dv5/v4): i9-13900KS, water 2x360mm, ASUS Z790 Hero, 32GB GSkill 7800MHz CAS36, ASUS RTX4090
Samsung 55" JS8500 4K TV@60Hz,
3x 2TB WD SN850X 1x 4TB Crucial P3 M.2 NVME SSD, EVGA 1600T2 PSU
Fiber link to Yamaha RX-V467 Home Theater Receiver, Polk/Klipsch 6" bookshelf speakers, Polk 12" subwoofer, 12.9" iPad Pro
PFC yoke/throttle quad/pedals with custom Hall sensor retrofit, Thermaltake View 71 case, Stream Deck XL button box

Sys3 (DCS/P3Dv4/ATS/ETS): AMD 7800X3D, MSI MPG X870E Carbon, Noctua NH-D15S, 64GB GSkill 6000/30, EVGA RTX3090
Alienware AW3420DW 34" 21:9 GSync, Corsair HX1000i PSU, 4TB Crucial T705 PCIe5 + 2TB Samsung 970Evo Plus,
TM TCA Officer Pack
, Saitek combat pedals, TM Warthog, TM RS300 FF wheel/pedals, Coolermaster HAF XB case

  • 2 weeks later...

I also had the same problem with the trim after autopilot disconect, but has now been fixed using FSUIPC. On hearing about the next version, all I can say is WOW. I have aircraft corroding in my virtual hanger that cost

Paul Edwards

Thanks for the kind words. No donations. Freeware is...free!That said, there are always ways folks can contribute to the project i.e. documentation, high-quality digital panel photos, repaints, effects, load managers, fuel planners, good ideas etc.CheersBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

Bob Scott | President and CEO, AVSIM Inc
ATP Gulfstream II-III-IV-V

Sys1 (MSFS20+24/XPlane12+11): AMD 9800X3D, water 2x240mm, MSI MPG X670E Carbon, 64GB GSkill 6000/30, nVidia RTX4090FE
Alienware AW3821DW 38" 21:9 GSync, 2x4TB Crucial T705 PCIe5 + 2x2TB Samsung 990 SSD, EVGA 1000P2 PSU, 12.9" iPad Pro
Thrustmaster TCA Boeing Yoke, TCA Airbus Sidestick, Twin TCA Airbus Throttle quads, PFC Cirrus Pedals, Coolermaster HAF932 case

Sys2 (P3Dv5/v4): i9-13900KS, water 2x360mm, ASUS Z790 Hero, 32GB GSkill 7800MHz CAS36, ASUS RTX4090
Samsung 55" JS8500 4K TV@60Hz,
3x 2TB WD SN850X 1x 4TB Crucial P3 M.2 NVME SSD, EVGA 1600T2 PSU
Fiber link to Yamaha RX-V467 Home Theater Receiver, Polk/Klipsch 6" bookshelf speakers, Polk 12" subwoofer, 12.9" iPad Pro
PFC yoke/throttle quad/pedals with custom Hall sensor retrofit, Thermaltake View 71 case, Stream Deck XL button box

Sys3 (DCS/P3Dv4/ATS/ETS): AMD 7800X3D, MSI MPG X870E Carbon, Noctua NH-D15S, 64GB GSkill 6000/30, EVGA RTX3090
Alienware AW3420DW 34" 21:9 GSync, Corsair HX1000i PSU, 4TB Crucial T705 PCIe5 + 2TB Samsung 970Evo Plus,
TM TCA Officer Pack
, Saitek combat pedals, TM Warthog, TM RS300 FF wheel/pedals, Coolermaster HAF XB case

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