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Problem with SimConnect and FeelThere Legact/ERJ-145

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Hi,I am new too this forum, so good to meet you.I am having issues with FSX and FeelThere addons as per the title. I have been in touch with the lead programmer of FeelThere and as of yet have not found a solution. As far as he is concerned, the problem is with SimConnect. The gauge is connecting properly but the callback routine is not being called, which suggests something is blocking it.I have reinstalled SimConnect from the SDK, which seems to be the best advice, and this has made no difference. What happens when I load these aircraft is there is no gauges that work in either the 2d cockpit or the VC. The throttles are inopperable and set right back in the reverse thrust direction. The engines are runnning but moving the throttles has no affect. When the mouse is over the throttles it gives a degrees of motion rather than % of thrust, which is weird. Also, the mouse shows hotspots and knobs and switches on the pointer (i.e. I get the hand) but they are not functional at all, in both 2d and VC. No switches work. And finally, when I press any of the autopilot buttons the program crashes.Alex at FeelThere has verified that SimConnect is being called and connected by some logging that I have done for him, but is as yet unable to find a solution.I was wondering if any of you have come across this problem or would have any idea what could be causing it?My system is as follows:Dell Laptop Inspiron 9400Intel Core Duo Centrino T2500 (2 x 2.0 GHz)2 GB RAMnVidia GeForce Go 7900 GS 256 MB graphics card100GB hard driveWindows Media Centre 2005 XPSorry if this is the wrong forum to post this, just seeing as it may be a SimConnect problem, or at least related to that, I was hoping that someone may have an idea.Kind Regards,Ed Morris

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I have the ERJ-145, but I haven't flown it or patched it up to FSX. I'll try to take a look at it this weekend and see if I can replicate any of these issues.Seriously though, I haven't found very many issues that are actually SimConnect's fault.

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Thanks Brian,I appreciate you cander in the situation.I have just generated a log file for the ERJ-135 and I got the following when I loaded up the aircraft:0.00000 SimConnect version 0x000000026.24925 DLL Loaded: Path="FeelThereLegacyLegacyXHUD.dll" Version="1.3.0.1"6.29446 Panels data export found and set to 20A419907.65009 DLL Loaded: Path="ModulesFSUIPC4.dll" Version="4.0.6.0"21.23007 [62] Inactive!21.23044 [62] I/O Error!21.23082 [63] Inactive!59.09049 [63] Inactive!> 82.17247 [60, 1]Open: Version=0x00000002 Name="FSUIPC4"> 84.08140 [42, 1]Open: Version=0x00000002 Name="FSUIPC4"> 84.29594 [40, 1]Open: Version=0x00000002 Name="FSUIPC4"84.30829 [41] Disconnected!> 84.30899 [40, 2]SubscribeToSystemEvent:EventID=2, SystemEventName="SimStart"> 84.30910 [40, 3]SubscribeToSystemEvent:EventID=3, SystemEventName="SimStop"> 84.30918 [40, 4]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"84.32915 [42] Disconnected!84.32959 [43] Disconnected!84.32989 [44] Disconnected!84.33014 [45] Disconnected!84.33040 [46] Disconnected!84.33065 [47] Disconnected!84.33096 [48] Disconnected!84.33122 [49] Disconnected!84.33149 [50] Disconnected!84.33177 [51] Disconnected!84.33204 [52] Disconnected!84.33231 [53] Disconnected!84.33259 [54] Disconnected!84.33290 [55] Disconnected!84.33318 [56] Disconnected!84.33347 [57] Disconnected!84.33377 [58] Disconnected!84.33406 [59] Disconnected!84.33435 [60] Disconnected!84.33468 [61] Disconnected!84.33499 [62] I/O Error!84.33529 [63] Disconnected!> 86.83173 [40, 5]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 89.39527 [40, 6]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 91.95412 [40, 7]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 95.57690 [40, 8]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"100.39097 [63] Inactive!> 100.40051 [40, 9]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 105.59534 [40, 10]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 108.13135 [40, 11]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 110.69231 [40, 12]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 113.22879 [40, 13]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 115.75377 [40, 14]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 118.35842 [40, 15]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 120.88067 [40, 16]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 123.44040 [40, 17]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 126.00307 [40, 18]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 128.56540 [40, 19]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 131.12197 [40, 20]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 133.66704 [40, 21]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 136.36260 [40, 22]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 138.87773 [40, 23]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 141.44004 [40, 24]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 144.09643 [40, 25]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 146.63057 [40, 26]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 149.44032 [40, 27]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 151.94053 [40, 28]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 154.86482 [40, 29]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"> 157.60163 [40, 30]RequestSystemState:RequestID=1, szState="Sim"Some of the statements don't look good. Especially, I/O ERROR!CheersEd

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>21.23007 [62] Inactive!>21.23044 [62] I/O Error!>21.23082 [63] Inactive!>59.09049 [63] Inactive!I've not seen the "Inactive" problem before, but certainly the "I/O Error" one is seen quite frequently when there's more than one Client using SimConnect.I have reported this in full detail to the right folks in Microsoft and I believe and hope it is being fixed as part of the general FSX bug fix we hope will be arriving in the New Year. However, it cannot hurt to submit these details, especially your SimConnect Log file, to tell_fs@microsoft.com. You won't get a reply (well, nothing more than an automated one) but it will reach the right folks -- put the word "SimConnect" in the title.Meanwhile all I can suggest is running either the Feel There DLL or FSUIPC4, but not both at the same time. Merely renaming them temporarily will do the trick.Oh, and Brian, you are very lucky if you've not seen any SimConnect problems. There are now at least three types of problem becoming quite evident and not uncommon:1. SimConnect installation problems. For some reason SimConnect is sometimes not installing correctly. When this happens merely uninstalling and re-installing FSX itself does not fix it, you have to actually delete a Windows WinSxS folder and do a repair instead.2. Blockage problems. SimConnect uses TCP/IP protocols to talk to FSX, even when the client is a Gauge or DLL inside FSX's own process. I am campaigning for this to be short-circuited, but meanwhile Firewall and other Privacy programs often either totally block, or corrupt, or severely delay the messages going to and fro. This produces a variety of different-looking symptoms.3. Errors and crashes with multiple clients. There are reproducible circumstances where, if two or more SimConnect clients are started together, then FSX either crashes then and there, or does weird things later, or crashes later. This is particularly noticeable if one of the Clients starting up displays a Security warning whilst another client is initialising. We've had such circumstances 100% reproducible.I think the I/O Error report is another multiple client problem. The TCP/IP protocol used by SimConnect is UDP which is connectionless and unchecked, and worse, unguaranteed, unlike TCP. One wouldn't think this would matter when everything is in one PC, in one Process even, but it looks like at busy periods (eg two or more clients both trying to define all their data definitions, etc ,etc) you get clashes and one or either client either gets dropped/blocked completely without any error, or you get this "I/O Error". FSUIPC4 retries a new connection if it gets no expected responses in a reasonable time, to get over this, it is so common. It can occur well into an FSX session, presumably only needing stuff to get really hectic, which I suppose makes it more likely on lesser machines with the sliders set too high.RegardsPete

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The main thing, Pete, is that no one else has used the stuff I've made, so no problems for me doesn't really mean much. Then again, I've also never really studied the logs on my programs that are transferring a lot of data.

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Thanks for the great info!That's superb!I will definately drop the guys at Microsoft an email with the details.I have done a little more investigating since my last post. I have, as you pointed out, disabled FSUIPC for now in order to track the problems that may be occuring with SimConnect and Legacy/ERJ-145 products by FeelThere.This is what get's written to the log file when I start FSX with FSUIPC disable and trying to run Legacy:***********************************************************0.00000 SimConnect version 0x000000025.57336 DLL Loaded: Path="FeelThereLegacyLegacyXHUD.dll" Version="1.3.0.1"5.57368 File not found: Path="ModulesFSUIPC4.dll"18.01263 [63] Inactive!162.33550 [63] Inactive!***********************************************************As you can see the FSUIPC has been disabled, and it is loading Legacy. I am not totally sure what the Inactive! statements are pertaining to, but they appear when I select and load the aircraft from the aircraft menu.The guys at feelthere did some debugging of their gauge on my setup and it has verified that SimConnect is working to some degree. I have messed around with the SimConnect.ini and .xml files to see if I could gete any joy, plus I have also disabled my McAffee Firewall while doing this tests. None of this seems to make a difference, although changes to the SimConnect configuration has caused it not to work in certain setups, confirmed by the FeelThere gauge debugging.Things that caused it to break were changing the following settings in the .xml file:<?xml version="1.0" encoding="Windows-1252"?>SimConnectSimConnect.xmlFalseFalseIPv4global

127.0.0.1
6420008192Falsethen replaced it with the standard one and it works again correctly:<?xml version="1.0" encoding="Windows-1252"?>SimConnectSimConnect.xmlFalseFalseAutolocal
644096FalseWhat other changes do you think might make a difference? Using IPv6 might make a difference.But I am a little confused because the connection is on the same machine so should it not really need network connections. Would anything else other than my firewall be blocking the 127.0.0.1 localhost?I have double checked that the windows XP firewall is disabled also.The guys at FeelThere said they would submit a report on the findings so far. I guess there in a better position, in terms of expertise, to detail exactly what might be causing it. I must admit, their support has been excellent, really top draw. They are a very kind and helpful bunch of people.Thanks again,Ed

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Pete wrote:"Firewall and other Privacy programs often either totally block, or corrupt, or severely delay the messages going to and fro."In addition to Pete

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So Pete, what is basically happening is an addon could issue a write to FSX, but if there is latency then the variable that the addon may have changed is overwritten, or changed back to default perhaps, no call back is issued.Interestingly, the communication with the FeelThere guys has flagged an issue such that SimConnect is actually connecting to the addon, but then the call back routine is not being called. If latency is an issue, then FSX may overwrite certain parameters and thus causing the call back routine not to be called. Is this only applicable to addons over the network or for locally installed addons such as gauges? The problem I am having is with gauges on the feelThere Legacy, details posted above.Certainly there are some connection issues being highlighted by the SimConnect log. e.g. the Inactive! statement. Any idea what this could mean?CheersEd

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>>> The TCP/IP protocol used by SimConnect is UDP which is connectionless and unchecked, and worse, unguaranteed, unlike TCP.Pete, when I look at packet traces and netstat on both client and server machines, SimConnect appears to be 100% TCP. I configured simconnect for port 2010, and I am seeing everything on 2010/TCP.Regards,Rich

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>This is what get's written to the log file when I start FSX>with FSUIPC disable and trying to run Legacy:>>***********************************************************>0.00000 SimConnect version 0x00000002>>5.57336 DLL Loaded: Path="FeelThereLegacyLegacyXHUD.dll" >Version="1.3.0.1">5.57368 File not found: Path="ModulesFSUIPC4.dll">18.01263 [63] Inactive!>162.33550 [63] Inactive!>***********************************************************>>As you can see the FSUIPC has been disabled, and it is loading>Legacy. I am not totally sure what the Inactive! statements>are pertaining to, but they appear when I select and load the>aircraft from the aircraft menu.I don't know what those "inactive" messages means either, but it isn't good.>Things that caused it to break were changing the following>settings in the .xml file:The simconnect.xml file is not needed unless you are trying to enable SimConnect client programs to run across a Network -- i.e. from a separate PC to the one running FSX. Then the Simconnect.xml file tells SimConnect to listen on a specific port for such connections.However, if the SimConnect .xml file DOES exist and ONLY lists an external connection ("global") with no local connection ("local") then no Simconnect clients will work on the FSX machine -- not even internal ones like FSUIPC4 or other DLLs and Gauges.I think that is rather a design error and have made a suggestion to MS about that. It's even more glaring when you'd assume the word "global" INCLUDED local connections!This problem has occurred on several user systems, and was so confusing that I changed the FSUIPC4 installer to check for such a file and, if it contained no "local" entry, to add one. That happens with the current FSUIPC4 installer (4.063) available on my Support Forum.RegardsPete

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>Pete, when I look at packet traces and netstat on both client>and server machines, SimConnect appears to be 100% TCP. I>configured simconnect for port 2010, and I am seeing>everything on 2010/TCP.Strange, then. I'm sure that the MS chap dealing with SimConnect told me it was UDP. Maybe it got chsnged for better reliability in the final user release. Thanks for telling me.If so, this actually may also help to explain why I could measure little or no impact of installing FSUIPC4 in the Beta versions of FSX, yet get a 10-15% degradation in measured frame rates in the released version. The TCP protocol is far heavier in terms of resources and time, due to the checking and receipting, than UDP -- UDP seems almost as fast as the very simple IPX/SPX protocols.However, it does then raise the question of how SimConnect can get into a mess with things like "I/O Errors" being reported in its logs when things get busy with multiple clients. In a single PC with all clients internal to the one process it's hard to conceive of a possible "I/O Error".RegardsPete

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Pete,I have seen I/O Error messages in my SimConnect log file when everything is running on a single machine.Why would there be any connectivity issues when everything is running locally?It doesn't make sense. Are firewalls configured to automatically block "localhost" or 127.0.0.1? I don't think they are, since they don't represent any harm.So, do local programs also connect to FSX through SimConnect via UDP or TCP or is that only for network applications?In your opinion, do you think that SimConnect is buggy, and that all the problems people are reporting are due to vunerabilities in SimConnect rather than the addons themselves.I have noticed that people have been getting memory read errors with other FS apps as well, for instance FSUIPC. I have had that with the Legacy addon when I press any of the auto pilot buttons.Regards,Ed

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>>> However, it does then raise the question of how SimConnect can get into a mess with things like "I/O Errors" being reported in its logs when things get busy with multiple clients. In a single PC with all clients internal to the one process it's hard to conceive of a possible "I/O Error"Agreed. I would check to make sure we are seeing the same thing. I first ran netstat -an from a DOS box to confirm the FSX was using TCP on the configured port. Then I made a SimConnection to confirm that was the port the client was connecting to. Since I am paranoid, I followed up with a packet trace using Ethereal. BTW, I am doing this from a "wide" PC-to-PC connection. So I can not speak for connections on the same PC at this time.So I would agree, the I/O errors are probably more of a cryptic error message than an actual network com error.CheersRich

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>I have seen I/O Error messages in my SimConnect log file when>everything is running on a single machine.That's nothing. Most of those I've seen have all been running in a single process, i.e. FSX!I've not yet seen a SimConnect Log from anyone running a remote client, so they are ALWAYS on a single machine!>Why would there be any connectivity issues when everything is>running locally?Yeah. Daft isn't it?>It doesn't make sense. Are firewalls configured to>automatically block "localhost" or 127.0.0.1? I don't think>they are, since they don't represent any harm.No idea. There's a term "privacy" bandied about as if it were a separate setting. It doesn't seem a bother with a default WinXP firewall -- I only have WinXP Firewalls and Norton AntiVirus, and never got any of all those problems.It is all very strange, I agree.>So, do local programs also connect to FSX through SimConnect>via UDP or TCP or is that only for network applications?All of them. Simconnect.DLL, which the application links to, is only ever talking to FSX via TCP or UDP (it seems TCP from a previous reply here).>In your opinion, do you think that SimConnect is buggy, and>that all the problems people are reporting are due to>vunerabilities in SimConnect rather than the addons>themselves.Well, add-on problems are fairly easily identifiable, given the extensive logging available from SimConnect. No. All the residual problems I've seen so far have been due to one of the following:1. Configuration problems (the DLL.XML, EXE.XML or Simconnect.XML files, all of which seem rather precarious and why I try to deal with them automatically via my Installer).2. Actual SimConnect bugs, such as the reproducible FSX crashes which occur when one client is initialising and another gets to a Security dialogue, or the one where SimConnect stops talking to any clients when Multiplayer mode is started.3. Deficiencies or design flaws causing problems in the TCP or UDP communications, including these I/O Errors (which should not be possible), the blockages caused by third party security programs, and the sheer ineficiency of theo peration this way especially for in-process clients like gauges and DLLs.I have tried to work around those which are possible to work-around -- for instance improving my Installer for (1) and doing checks on what should be regularly-arriving Simconnect messages and reconnecting when they stop arriving, but it is difficult to work around the crashes and the blockages.>I have noticed that people have been getting memory read>errors with other FS apps as well, for instance FSUIPC. I have>had that with the Legacy addon when I press any of the auto>pilot buttons.The memory read errors I've seen have been in strange places like TERRAIN.DLL, and seem to be a variety of the error as mentioned in (2) above -- when two or more Simconnect clients are running I think something in Simconnect can corrupt something in FSX which causes either an immediate crash, or one much later. I've not yet been shown any such crash with only one client running.This conclusion is also re-informced by the fact that one of the reproducible crashes, the one with the Security warning for one of the clients, was at the same crash address as some of the others shown in later running.RegardsPete

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>>Yeah. Daft isn't it?>I totally agree, it seems silly. I understand where they were coming from, meaning that developers only had to deal with one interface for local and network wide facilities, but it seems as though the testing that was done with it regarding addons was minimal. Being a developer Pete, did you have or do you know if anyone in the addons industry had much discussion with microsoft on the design of this connectivity issue?>>Well, add-on problems are fairly easily identifiable, given>the extensive logging available from SimConnect. I've done some debugging using log files for the guys at FeelThere and as far as they can tell, SimConnect is working properly, but not calling back. This could be something to do latency issues that I read about, with FSX corrupting write commands from addons before they get a chance to read the response. That would kind of explain the reason for the callback function not being sent. FSX was resetting the value before the addon could read it, but that doesn't make sense why that would occur locally.>>1. Configuration problems (the DLL.XML, EXE.XML or>Simconnect.XML files, all of which seem rather precarious and>why I try to deal with them automatically via my Installer).>I tried messing around with the SimConnect.xml and .ini files but found that these hindered SimConnect rather than helped it. I have now removed them since changing them did nothing. I have FSUIPC currently disabled for bugging purposes of the FeelThere plane, but I had no problems in running that. My dll.xml looks like this: <?xml version="1.0" encoding="Windows-1252" ?> - Launchdll.xmlFalseFalse - Object Placement ToolTrueFalse..Microsoft Flight Simulator X SDKSDKMission Creation Kitobject_placement.dll- Traffic ToolboxTrueFalse..Microsoft Flight Simulator X SDKSDKEnvironment KitTraffic Toolbox SDKtraffictoolbox.dll- Visual Effects ToolTrueFalse..Microsoft Flight Simulator X SDKSDKEnvironment KitSpecial Effects SDKvisualfxtool.dll- FeelThere LegacyX HUDFalseFeelThereLegacyLegacyXHUD.dll- FSUIPC 4FalseModulesFSUIPC4.dll>>3. Deficiencies or design flaws causing problems in the TCP or>UDP communications, including these I/O Errors (which should>not be possible), the blockages caused by third party security>programs, and the sheer ineficiency of theo peration this way>especially for in-process clients like gauges and DLLs.>Yes, I agree. I mean, that is the problem with the addon that I am having is with a gauge. Considering the only dll that is called by FSX is the HUD dll, do you think it's worth disabling the HUD.dll with the legacy and seeing if the gauge works correctly. I am thinking that may be the HUD.dll is causing problems with SimConnect. The gauges will be loaded through the configuration file for the aircraft right?>>The memory read errors I've seen have been in strange places>like TERRAIN.DLL, and seem to be a variety of the error as>mentioned in (2) above -- when two or more Simconnect clients>are running I think something in Simconnect can corrupt>something in FSX which causes either an immediate crash, or>one much later. I've not yet been shown any such crash with>only one client running.>Certainly that is what happens to my version. A complete CTD follow my a termination message, showin in the image. The result is the dark cockpit shown in the second image.I am still unsure as to whether the problem is with the aircraft or with SimConnect.As far as I can see, we need a little bit visible acknowledgement from Microsoft. I mean we pay $70 for the product, so you would think that they would have someone or even a team of people crawling around the developer forums.CheersEd

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