Going to miss you Mike...

[John_Cillis 2,406]

Note Mike's comments on his home page. Sorry to see it went with no mention here. Mike has had some wonderful and interesting contributions. I am going to miss his talent and the niche he filled in our hobby.-Johnhttp://www.pmstone.com/index.htm

[Guest DocW]

I think I know what he means, and it is sad.Sometimes taking out someone for a beer, a spin in a C-152 (about all I could offer) or a walk in the forrest or whatever would fix a lot, I am convinced. But you cannot offer that virtually, you have to face the individual to make it work.

[Guest BrianFletcher]

Personally I don't use Mike's aircraft because ever since I got my Track IR I am pretty much addicted to virtual cockpits. But it is sad that he has had to endure such unfounded criticism for offering the flight sim community with such fantastic freeware aircraft. I am not aware of that happening in this forum, but shame on anyone who has done so.

[razorseal 0]

someone fill me in, what happened?

[Bonkster 1]

>someone fill me in, what happened?I don't know about this "specific" incident (or if there even was one specific incident).. but Mike was not known to be very open to "constructive" criticism where his models were concerned... If there were flaws or inaccuracies in his aircraft models, and someone tried to point them out to him, his basic response (as stated on his website) was.. "I design it the way I like.. if you don't like it, then don't use it!) That was his right to respond that way, of course, but I think it hardly made for terms of endearment among many, especially the "detail & accuracy freaks" in the simming community. I also think, IMHO, it kept Mike from reaching a higher level of accuracy in his modeling. Sure, there are those constant complainers out there who are never satisfied with anything (freeware OR payware) but there are also those out there who try to offer constructive suggestions that could improve a model. We ALL know that you can't please everyone.:-roll Mike just didn't like people offering ANY kind of criticism - constructive or not. He designed his models HIS way.. for his own enjoyment and satisfaction... and was gracious enough to share them with the community.But, for me, the attitude that accompanied them is what kept me from adding them to my hangar. Whether their works are freeware or payware, a modeler's skills will never improve unless they can accept criticism - both positive and negative - and do so with some degree of humility.I will certainly acknowledge that the FS community can, indeed, be demanding AND ungrateful at times... there's no denying that... but I also think that those who contribute their time and skills to the art of creating models, scenery, AI traffic, etc... would benefit from a little constructive criticism every now and then. That's what drives people to become better! :-)I hope Mike finds enjoyment and relaxation in whatever he does and I'm sure there will be many who will miss him.Alex

[Guest Camsdad]

This hasn't been the first time Mike has done this. He has quit for a while a few years ago because of people talking about inaccuracies. Staffan Ahlberg use to design freeware panels and he had done the same thing on a number of occasions. I appreciate the contributions that they give to this hobby. I really lose respect when I see the "I'm taking my ball and going home" tantrums. If you are going to quit then please quit. Don't beg for a pity party and lurk in the forums reading the posts of how you will be missed. More people will miss you than won't if you contribute. Trust me

[Guest CharlesHM]

I for one appreciate Mike's great contribution to our hobby and he will be missed. I for one will never offer any criticism to a freeware developer. I for one, cannot design planes, panels and other flight simmulation work. So, I am just grateful to have them and like others, I have two choices to download them and not to download them. Mike can set his own rules and make the planes his way without any person comments. It's his choice and I think its a fair one. I think that too often people take those freeware developers for granted, not thanking them for there work and just being grateful. Our hobby in the past few years have lost a great number of individuals due to criticism that got out of hand. I can remember some time ago, Mike was at the center for this for I think was something to due with the shape of one of his airplane parts. Then, he started his own forum. Just to get away. Mike can do as he wants to, if he comes back, that's great, our hobby is better for him in it than without him.If he want's to do something else that gives him pleasure, then I wish him well and hope he has does what ever he want to. Too often there is no one out there that will just say thank-you to those individuals that make our hobby what it is, fun. The fun gets take out it when there are too many individuals out there that "make negative criicims," without first thinking of the individual that spends hours and hour making planes and panels, sound and other items for all of us to enjoy. No one thinks that these individuals have feelings. Its too harsh to knock Mike for quiting then come back either. Quite sad to hear this said.I for one am grateful to Mike for his contribution to our hobby he will be missed. Charles Huckelbery

[MarkRey 16]

Personally I do not subscribe to the view that basically says "shut up if you can't do better" just because it's free. On a few occasions I have gratefully and respectfully offered my opinions to freeware devs - each time my opinions were received with graciousness and even taken on board. If in fact Mike could not deal with that kind of 'criticism' then that is his right, but methinks that's not desirable in someone who is offering their work to John Q. If you do it for yourself, then keep it to yourself and no one can hurt you.Abuse on the other hand, and I know Mike got a LOT of it, is another story - I can fully understand packing it in on those grounds if one so chooses. I did elsewhere and echo here my very best wishes and thanks to Mike for his numerous gifts to us all.regards,Markhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/a320/custbanner2.jpgPC Power Silencer 470/3.2HT/2048mb/ATI X1950pro/SB Audigy

[ejoiner 21]

I'm sorry to see mike go, but I only used his aircraft (with thanks) for AI. Mikes preferred level of detail was more "survey level" than great detail. Thats still cool, because he designed what HE was happy with. I was happy with it too, but only for AI, not for me to fly as I prefer VC's and a bit more detail.I understand the "Im tired" comment though. Theres only so much freeware creativity one can muster. Bill Lyons has felt the same way for different reasons as have others.Im thankful for Mike Stones contribution to our mutual hobby and I hope his previously produced content will live on at Avsim or some other public download space.I do hope Mike Stone will remain a simhead and either enjoy his own work privately or remain a part of the community as a fellow sim pilot generally.Eric

[Staffan 12]

>Staffan Ahlberg use to design freeware>panels and he had done the same thing on a number of>occasions. Hmmm,...let me just refrase that..... I did the same thing only once. The reason for me to quit was not the same as for Mike. And I didn

[chumley 0]

Is that you Gary?Aybe

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[Guest Trans_601]

Hey guys,As one of Mike's mates - let me clear one or two things up.The fact is, he does not care what people think of his work. As it says on his site, if you like them, fly them with his blessings - if not, go away.He was getting dozens of emails per day from ungrateful simmers saying crap like "the engines are too big" or "plz make me a plane". I'm sure that would cause anyone here to give it up.He's been making planes for years now and it was time for him to start pursuing another of his hobbies.Camsdad said: "I really lose respect when I see the "I'm taking my ball and going home" tantrums."It is clear that you have no knowledge or understanding of what it takes to be a developer. He didn't throw a tantrum, as I said, he was tired of people's BS and gave it up to pursue another hobby. You are yet another one of the many simmers who are ungrateful and disrespectful to those who try to make our hobby better.

[out 769]

Alex (Bonkster),No matter how I'd try I wouldn't say it better than you did.I agree in 100%.I may just add a few lines of my own thoughts.* * * * * * * * * * I have known Mike's aircraft for long years as I've been with MFS virtually since the beginning. Let me say I, personally, haven't been using them for my own reasons (nothing concerned with Mike himself) some of which were given in other posts. But, simultaneously, I have a lot of respect for Mike as well as for any other person who shares his or her creations for free. Hats off.As for the criticism.I myself shared a few files, also here in the AVSIM library. Did I get remarks, suggestions and even (constructive) criticism for them? Yes, I sure did. Did it hurt me however? Not at all, especially that I neither believe them to be really good nor forget that some people sharing their opinions are much better experts and I can learn a lot thanks to their remarks. So, I think Mike is over-reacting since he is too sensitive to people's remarks. But that's the way some of us are (I remember Ken Mitchell's announcement one day, too).On the other hand I understand his feeling of getting "nothing" for his efforts. I have quit a few forum environments due to this reason. Sometimes you share yourself and people mostly criticize you. If they mean good and want to help - just take it and... thank them! But if they themselves did nothing for the community and only want to show how much better they would do it if they did (would they?)- let them go to ####.Mike, if you're reading these words, there is no reason to quit. Rather take kind of holidays from FS and do something else for a while. There are lots of people who like your aircraft as it is. I am sure they will all miss your future work.Best regards,Rafal

[Bonkster 1]

>>He was getting dozens of emails per day from ungrateful>simmers saying crap like "the engines are too big" or "plz>make me a plane". I'm sure that would cause anyone here to>give it up.Thanks.. you just illustrated my point!While I think it would definitely get annoying to have people asking me to create a model SPECIFICALLY for them, I also think it would be helpful for someone to say to me.."The engines are too big".. or "The nose isn't the right shape"...that would only inspire me to be more accurate and to strive for greater realism in my models.You simply can't say "If it is FREE, then it is CORRECT!"If I were about to undergo a heart bypass operation, I'd feel more comfortable with a doctor who was concerned with doing it right rather than one who said "I'll do it the way I want to do it.. like it or not!"Granted, Mike's contributions were FREE to the community, but when you put your work out into the public domain under your own name, you are also putting your reputation and your integrity out there as well. You're telling the community "Hey guys (and girls), here's something I created for you all...what do you think?" But by attaching your name to it, you are also inviting both praise and criticism. If Mike didn't want criticism IN ADDITION to praise, he should have contributed his works anonymously. That way, he could have just given freely of his work and not had to deal with the reality of the inevitable constructive criticism that accompanies the praise.I have great respect for the people who contribute so greatly (and freely) to our hobby. I am grateful for the time, effort, and enjoyment that they give to the rest of us. But I am MORE grateful when they strive to make their contributions even better! I am equally grateful to the PAYWARE developers who constantly push the envelope of design to give us a more realistic and enjoyable flight simming experience.I can't help but call to mind a certain scenery designer who created a magnificent FREEWARE rendition of a large international airport in New England. He gave the community a wonderful gift that was at THE SAME level of detail as his payware products. He could have just done it the way HE wanted, released it, and said "Like it or not, here it is..." Instead, though, he took suggestions, comments (and criticisms) and made it EVEN BETTER by upgrading it not once, not twice, but THREE times! And as a result, we have, today, what many consider to be one of the best scenery packages out there... and it shows in the little details that he took the time to create.My point is that if you want to reap the rewards of doing something selfless, you also must be willing to accept the inevitable criticisms (good and bad) that will come as well. It is not (to quote you) "ungrateful or disrespectful" to say to say to someone "Thank you..you've done something wonderful... but here's a suggestion that can make it even better!" It's actually complimenting the designer.. because you're saying the them "I know you have the ability and the talent to make it even better!"It's all subjective, though... people think what they want and do what they want.Mike has his reasons for quitting and no matter what those reasons may be, he has done a service for the community and there are many who will miss him.Alex

[Mike T 220]

Mike has always had a rocky relationship with the FS community for whom he generously directed his creative efforts.I have seen some nasty comments in regard to this work before he left Avsim for good many years ago. In the same token, Mike never felt that he needed to update his models to suit the tastes of those who used them even if the criticism was constructive and positive. At the end of the day, as the creative mind behind the development of his aircraft, he is under no obligation to do listen to anyone. And while that may be true, trees that do not bend with the wind, tend to break.Over the years, I've seen Mike (and many others) leave Avsim with bitterness and now he's simply walking away from the community. The fact is that every creative mind that walks away from our hobby is a loss for ALL of us, irrespective of the reason.Mike gave his work, time and passion for free, even if the quality of his work was always widely subjective. Mike was a controversial figure, but, no matter how you felt about him or his work its always a pity to see another creative light extinguished for any reason. I wish him the best.