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razorseal

This makes me want to cry

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PERFECT flight from KLGA to KMIA and during my descent, I alt-tabbed and unmounted something from my virtual drive and POOF! there goes FS9 I was so close to landing too, fspassengers flight and everythingwhen that stuff happens I just want to smash my computer lol... I'll try to renact the flight from doing a KMCO to KMIA I guess :(it really sucks when a beautiful flight is ruined by the computer

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Two days ago on a Vatsim flight I was descending into KJFK and the same thing happened to me.I was just watching the flight when it happened. I was not typing or doing anything. So, your unloading something had (probably) nothing to do with it going "poof".MSFS9, just POOF, of the monitor. I was immediately back to my desktop, all icons working, all the stuff that supports msfs (running apps) was still running. It was just like MSFS9 had never been loaded.No error messages, Windows Task Manager ok execpt MSFS9 was missing. It was like there was no problem with my pc. It did not "lock up".This flight was not even using ActiveSky.I always thought when a program had a problem Windows would give the message "this program had a problem and must be shut down". But, I guess some things get by somehow.I checked the Event Log and had two "red" icons (errors) but no description as to what caused the problem.Sure would be nice to know what things can cause an application to just disappear without an error message from MS Windows!???**************************************>PERFECT flight from KLGA to KMIA and during my descent, I>alt-tabbed and unmounted something from my virtual drive and>POOF! there goes FS9 >>I was so close to landing too, fspassengers flight and>everything>>when that stuff happens I just want to smash my computer>lol... I'll try to renact the flight from doing a KMCO to KMIA>I guess :(>>it really sucks when a beautiful flight is ruined by the>computer

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AutoSave will not work with Level-D 763 because it only saves the "flight". It does not save the FMC data and you need that to pick up where you left off. So, "manually" saving the flight in MSFS9 is the only way to do it with Level-D.

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It is well known that corrupt or missing textures in FS will cause FS to close out to the desktop with no warning no error no nothing... Any time I have EVER had a straight CTD with no error I immediately copy over all my default textures and then re-run my GE setup. I have never had an instance where doing what I just mentioned did not fix the issue... The first thing I do when I install FS is to make a copy and backup of all my default textures so I can repeatedly restore them if necessary. I have also recently reverted to the process of "de-bloating" my fs install prior to a flight. I used to fly with every single add-on scenery active at all times and my memory useage numbers were very high. Now I use FSM and disable EVERY single add-on airport and scenery other than the ones being used for that particular flight. Why do I need scenery for Israel or Seattle or China being loaded if I am flying KEWR-EGLL? It only takes a few seconds to make the changes but it drastically reduces the amount of work/searching that FS does and also reduces your troubleshooting options if something does go wrong... I have 90 layers in my scenery.cfg but all my add-on layers are disabled and I will usually only have 2-3 add-ons active at any given time on top of my default scenery and UT/GE. This streamlined FS usage model has really made drastic impacts on my FS performance and more important stability...Just my .02-PaulPrimary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E6600 @3.2 gigsAsus P5N32SLI-Plus2 gigs Corsair XMS PC6400 4 4 4 12 @810Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigs24 inch Widescreen LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sRaid-0+1PCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLIhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg

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As long as I have been using MSFS9 (years) and Level-D 763 I have never messed with textures ... I do not know what they do or how to reload them.The next day I flew the same flight (still no ActiveSky running) and it was perfect. If I had a bad texture(s) I would assume it should cause another CTD without error messages.How do I copy over default textures? Help here would be appreciated.How long do you have to wait before textures ultimately become corrupt? What corrupts them in the first place?What is [>I have also recently reverted to the process of "de-bloating" my fs install prior to a flight.]I may have to do this also?I reboot hte pc then run "Smart Close" to shut down all programs prior to starting MSFS to free up more memory .. I have 2Gb.How do you do this?[Now I use FSM and disable EVERY single add-on airport and scenery other than the ones being used for that particular flight.]I thought MSFS only loaded new scenery "if" you were flying into it. Like, China would not ever be loaded if you were flying around New York for example??>It is well known that corrupt or missing textures in FS will>cause FS to close out to the desktop with no warning no error>no nothing... Any time I have EVER had a straight CTD with no>error I immediately copy over all my default textures and then>re-run my GE setup. I have never had an instance where doing>what I just mentioned did not fix the issue... >The first thing I do when I install FS is to make a copy and>backup of all my default textures so I can repeatedly restore>them if necessary.> >I have also recently reverted to the process of "de-bloating">my fs install prior to a flight. I used to fly with every>single add-on scenery active at all times and my memory useage>numbers were very high. Now I use FSM and disable EVERY>single add-on airport and scenery other than the ones being>used for that particular flight. Why do I need scenery for>Israel or Seattle or China being loaded if I am flying>KEWR-EGLL? It only takes a few seconds to make the changes>but it drastically reduces the amount of work/searching that>FS does and also reduces your troubleshooting options if>something does go wrong... I have 90 layers in my scenery.cfg>but all my add-on layers are disabled and I will usually only>have 2-3 add-ons active at any given time on top of my default>scenery and UT/GE. This streamlined FS usage model has really>made drastic impacts on my FS performance and more important>stability...>Just my .02>-Paul>>Primary Rig>Liquid Cooled>Intel C2D E6600 @3.2 gigs>Asus P5N32SLI-Plus>2 gigs Corsair XMS PC6400 4 4 4 12 @810>Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigs>24 inch Widescreen LCD 16XAA/16XAF>Dual 19 inch LCD's>Raid-0+1>PCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLI>http://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.html>>Backup Rig>AMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.7>2 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2>XFX 7900 GTX >Raid-0>psolk.jpg

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I also thought if MSFS did not have the "correct" scenery it would then use "default" scenery. I never knew it would stop the flight though! if, something was corrupt or missing.

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>it really sucks when a beautiful flight is ruined by the computerEven worse when it was a long flight. EGLL to KJFK. Canadian coast in sight, wonderfull weather, this was going to be a great landing....then "poof"OhwellDave

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Windows should always be able to supply error information on what caused a problem ... DLL tried to do something .. memory address / this program tried to access ... whatever!The event log should not just show a "red" error icon and leave you guessing what program caused the application to shut down.MS could fix this! They should always be able to supply information on which module or procedure "caused" the error.

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There is something common to all this ... we need to find out the "why" on this forum .... now, if possible.I read a VATSIM post the other day with the same problem.I had it.You had it.Others have had it.MSFS9 "has it" and it really need to be addressed. The why no error log on what routing, called by this program, DLL whatever to give us a starting point to work from to fix it.The real problem is, there is no way to find out what "caused" it to happen.MS should be able to give an error message in plain english (any language) what routine/program could not complete its task.And, it is not e.g. static electricity! Even then, MS should be able to indicate e.g. "power error" or whatever.

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That is what Filemon attempts to do for you. I am going to roll your other questions about de-bloating into the other post I have started to try and condense things...I have seen 250 thousand dollar software packages that you could not troubleshoot errors via the logging. I wouldn't expect MS put too much time into FS9 logging and you really need to level set your expectations. I am guessing if you reverted back to default FS9 you would have no issues so something WE add to FS9 is the issue, not the app itself...-PaulAlso hoping to get any help from MS now that FSX is out is a pipe dream. There support answer will be upgrade :)Primary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E6600 @3.2 gigsAsus P5N32SLI-Plus2 gigs Corsair XMS PC6400 4 4 4 12 @810Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigs24 inch Widescreen LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sRaid-0+1PCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLIhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg

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Back when the PMDG 747 was new, I did KLAX -> YSSY. On 2nm final, CTD. :(Talk about frustrating. ;) 16.5 hours and didn't get to land!

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>As long as I have been using MSFS9 (years) and Level-D 763 I>have never messed with textures ... I do not know what they do>or how to reload them.Textures display the visual information your scenery files call for.>>The next day I flew the same flight (still no ActiveSky>running) and it was perfect. If I had a bad texture(s) I would>assume it should cause another CTD without error messages.---->Quite possible, like all other Windows apps FS is subject to Flukes.>>How do I copy over default textures? Help here would be>appreciated.----->I have a copy of my default FS9 install on my HD that I backed up prior to adding any add-ons. I use that but you can restore them from a CD >>How long do you have to wait before textures ultimately become>corrupt? What corrupts them in the first place?----->A lot of things, repeated access, FS closing while they are being loaded etc... It can happen at any time same way you can lose a word .doc at anytime>What is [>I have also recently reverted to the process of>"de-bloating" my fs install prior to a flight.]>>I may have to do this also?----->Your call>I reboot hte pc then run "Smart Close" to shut down all>programs prior to starting MSFS to free up more memory .. I>have 2Gb.----->More than enough physical>How do you do this?>[Now I use FSM and disable EVERY single add-on airport and>scenery other than the ones being used for that particular>flight.]>>I thought MSFS only loaded new scenery "if" you were flying>into it. Like, China would not ever be loaded if you were>flying around New York for example??----->Not so although that would make sense. FS will randomly reload its entire scenery DB and add-on scenery DB during your flights. You can watch it happen with Filemon. Also if an add-on scenery is not coded correctly it could be referred to as global rather than local and get loaded everytime your scenery reloads which is more than you think...-Paul>>>>Primary Rig>>Liquid Cooled>>Intel C2D E6600 @3.2 gigs>>Asus P5N32SLI-Plus>>2 gigs Corsair XMS PC6400 4 4 4 12 @810>>Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigs>>24 inch Widescreen LCD 16XAA/16XAF>>Dual 19 inch LCD's>>Raid-0+1>>PCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLI>>http://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.html>>>>Backup Rig>>AMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.7>>2 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2>>XFX 7900 GTX >>Raid-0>>psolk.jpg>Primary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E6600 @3.2 gigsAsus P5N32SLI-Plus2 gigs Corsair XMS PC6400 4 4 4 12 @810Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigs24 inch Widescreen LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sRaid-0+1PCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLIhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg

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I think Windows should be able to supply an error message and log, in plain english, what DLL etc. caused a problem.Not for MSFS9, but for any program that is running.This is MS Windows and a MS program (FS9 we are currently talking about) and MS should properly report any errors encountered.Why should we haveto run FileMon or anything else to determine where a problem is? That is sad!You should not have to be a programmer to "read" an error message from MS Windows and the error message should "point" to the module that caused the problem (FSUIPC, Wx Program, virus checker .. whatever program made a software call ... and caused the error.

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I hears every word of that!Bad part is you have no clue what caused it.You can only guess without an error message form MD Windows.

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You obviously don't work with hardware/software :). I don't mean that in a mean way but if you did you would understand that what you are asking for is a "perfect world". It doesn't exist in technology but it would certainly be nice...But your last line contradicts your entire argument. FSUIPC, wx Program, virus Checker are not MS products. LVL-D, PMDG, PSS, ASV and all these add-ons WE add to FS are what cause issues. You can't blame MS for that or expect them to know about everything we have added to our systems over the years. I can't remember hearing a SINGLE person who had issues like we have today with Stock FS9 years ago...We tweak, we add we play with fire...PaulPrimary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E6600 @3.2 gigsAsus P5N32SLI-Plus2 gigs Corsair XMS PC6400 4 4 4 12 @810Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigs24 inch Widescreen LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sRaid-0+1PCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLIhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg

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Interesting posts. Like many of us, I have had this happen also. I always wondered, since the "CTD" acts like you clicked on the "X" (or "exit program" icon) that it could be a series of events that are happening at the same time, (ie-weather update,new scenery loading,new AI traffic,etc.) that is causing the program to think that you clicked the "X" and therefore closes the program immediately.I'm not that computer savy, but I've always thought that computers basically have to be told what to do. If so, it seems to me that something is telling the computer falsely to close the program. Of course the million dollar question is, "what?"John M

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This scenery/texture thing requires a bit of knowledge .. you have it, I do not. But I can follow direstions to get the job done.*************----->I have a copy of my default FS9 install on my HD that I backed up prior to adding any add-ons. I use that but you can restore them from a CD *************Is this one file, one directory, or several directories that are all part of MSFS9?***>How long do you have to wait before textures ultimately become>corrupt? What corrupts them in the first place?----->A lot of things, repeated access, FS closing while they are being loaded etc... It can happen at any time same way you can lose a word .doc at anytime***I thought texture files were Read but not Written to (changed.How does a read file become corrupted?I also thought if a file was corrupted it would also be corrupt the next time you flew the same scenery the next day ... it would not self-correct a damaged file!****>What is <>I have also recently reverted to the process of[br />>"de-bloating" my ****How do you do this? de-blote thing?**----->Not so although that would make sense. FS will randomly reload its entire scenery DB and add-on scenery DB during your flights. You can watch it happen with Filemon. Also if an add-on scenery is not coded correctly it could be referred to as global rather than local and get loaded everytime your scenery reloads which is more than you think...**I did not know this and it does not make sense.I thought MSFS9 used a scenery "cache" and it only loaded it once?This saves trips back to the CD or the hard drive for textures when it need them.I also thought if ASIA eg was not "selected/checked marked" in the screnery configuration it would never be loaded?How do you selectively load only the scenery/textures you will be using for your current flight?I have looked thru the MSFS9 scenery directory and it is in some kind of code likw c999000 for Michigan/Atlanta whatever...Is this the stuff that loads more than once during your flights?Cannot understand why it needs to reload anything.Should be load it once, run it until FS9 is shut down. If there are errors during the flight ... report the error to the user.

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**You obviously don't work with hardware/software :). I don't mean that in a mean way but if you did you would understand that what you are asking for is a "perfect world". **I owned and operated a computer repair company for 15 years in southern California.Built/repaired pcs/networks etc. Enought said on that.***But your last line contradicts your entire argument. FSUIPC, wx Program, virus Checker are not MS products. LVL-D, PMDG, PSS, ASV and all these add-ons WE add to FS are what cause issues***Sorry if I confused the issue.When a program/application/ or calls by programs are made, threads .. whatever is running, "the errors" MS Windows Operating System should be able to trap the error and identify what caused it.*We tweak, we add we play with fire...*If we know wat module caused the problemI have been tweeking for many years ... correct, we do a lot of it.

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>This scenery/texture thing requires a bit of knowledge .. you>have it, I do not. But I can follow direstions to get the job>done.>>*************>----->I have a copy of my default FS9 install on my HD that I>backed up prior to adding any add-ons. I use that but you can>restore them from a CD >*************>Is this one file, one directory, or several directories that>are all part of MSFS9?-------------->>***>>How long do you have to wait before textures ultimately>become>>corrupt? What corrupts them in the first place?>----->A lot of things, repeated access, FS closing while they>are being loaded etc... It can happen at any time same way you>can lose a word .doc at anytime>***>I thought texture files were Read but not Written to>(changed.>How does a read file become corrupted?>>I also thought if a file was corrupted it would also be>corrupt the next time you flew the same scenery the next day>... it would not self-correct a damaged file!>>>****>>What is <>I have also recently reverted to the process of[br>/>>"de-bloating" my >****>How do you do this? de-blote thing?>>>**>----->Not so although that would make sense. FS will randomly>reload its entire scenery DB and add-on scenery DB during your>flights. You can watch it happen with Filemon. Also if an>add-on scenery is not coded correctly it could be referred to>as global rather than local and get loaded everytime your>scenery reloads which is more than you think...>**>I did not know this and it does not make sense.>>I thought MSFS9 used a scenery "cache" and it only loaded it>once?>This saves trips back to the CD or the hard drive for textures>when it need them.>>I also thought if ASIA eg was not "selected/checked marked" in>the screnery configuration it would never be loaded?>>How do you selectively load only the scenery/textures you will>be using for your current flight?>>I have looked thru the MSFS9 scenery directory and it is in>some kind of code likw c999000 for Michigan/Atlanta>whatever...>>Is this the stuff that loads more than once during your>flights?>>Cannot understand why it needs to reload anything.>>Should be load it once, run it until FS9 is shut down. If>there are errors during the flight ... report the error to the>user.>OK, lot of questions so let me try and hit them all in one shot. I am trying to simultaneously post another post at the same time to answer a lot of these questions :)>Is this one file, one directory, or several directories that>are all part of MSFS9?One DirectoryIt is the Scenery/World/Texture Directory. Not sure what CD this directory is on to restore it.I thought texture files were Read but not Written to (changed.How does a read file become corrupted?A read file can easily become corrupted just as a write file. Look at your O/S. Any Hidden/System/Read Only File can be corrupt at any given time. Look at how easily video drivers corrupt if you use an Nvidia card and we don't write to those...I also thought if a file was corrupted it would also be corrupt the next time you flew the same scenery the next day ... it would not self-correct a damaged file!You are correct. But if the file was not corrupt but just "misplaced" (not where the system wanted it to be on the HD)then it could be found the next time around. Computers are far less logical than people think.I thought MSFS9 used a scenery "cache" and it only loaded it once?This saves trips back to the CD or the hard drive for textures when it need them.Yes and No. It will cache them but it will continously reload from Cache throughout the flight. Scenery Does not load once at the beginning of an FS session and that is it. It is a continual process that goes on for the length of your flight. The question is WHAT and HOW MUCH is being pulled from cache.I also thought if ASIA eg was not "selected/checked marked" in the screnery configuration it would never be loaded?Correct and that is what I do. I uncheck all of my add-ons at all times. Then I enable the sceneries I am going to use for a particular journeyHow do you selectively load only the scenery/textures you will be using for your current flight? As described above.-PaulPrimary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E6600 @3.2 gigsAsus P5N32SLI-Plus2 gigs Corsair XMS PC6400 4 4 4 12 @810Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigs24 inch Widescreen LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sRaid-0+1PCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLIhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg

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Sorry wasn't trying to be rude or demeaning so I apologize but you of all people should understand what you are asking for doesn't exist as much as we would all love it to... :(Should be but never going to happen unless the offending module has an API into the O/S to TELL the O/S what it is doing. Otherwise the O/S never knows to look for it. In this case the responsibility lies on the add-on module to notify the O/S what it is doing via a call most likely key, string or api.You are preaching to the choir though man we would all love what you are asking for but the best we've got is FileMon ;)Primary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E6600 @3.2 gigsAsus P5N32SLI-Plus2 gigs Corsair XMS PC6400 4 4 4 12 @810Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigs24 inch Widescreen LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sRaid-0+1PCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLIhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg

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On my system.If I click the X MSFS9 asks "are you sure you want to close MSFS9" and the I click YES.That is a normal shutdown.If Windows encounters a problem it will say "xx program / DLL whatever caused yy problem and Windows must shut down now".This is better.But our problem is something "happened" and Windows voided MSFS9 from memory and returned to the desktop without an "error" message.Just as if, like you said, you had selectes the X to shut down the clicked OK to actually shut it down.

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I stand corrected, I forgot that we have to approve the exit command when exiting FS via the "X". I guess I'm wondering what exactly takes place inside the computer when we click on "exit", ( what switches or circuits are put into motion by this command ) that causes it to shut down the program and could there be some series of events (other than a normal shutdown) that can fool the computer into thinking that the exit command has been issued. John M

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**Should be but never going to happen unless the offending module has an API into the O/S to TELL the O/S what it is doing.**If any offending program had/has a problem with its software then it should "crash" until it is patched to correct the problem. Don't know how they could report their own error that caused it to crash .. anyway I am not a software guy. I just know that every event is tracked somewhere and it should be possible to report it. Like part of a debug routine Windows enters for trapping and reporting the error.Windows "knows" what caused the problem! Which one did the wrong call/whatever.Sometimes I have seen the message saying "do you want to send this information to MS?The error dump is all in code (hex) ... they know what happened!

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Right, exactly the missing "link" here.MSFS9 just "disappears" off the face of the world (screen)!No error, no nothing.What is so powerful that the entire exit from MSFS9 can occure "without" MS Windows "knowing" it happened? AND, MS Windows continues running as if MSFS were never loaded/running.What other programs besided MSFS have just "disappeared" for no apparenr reason on your computer? On my computer the only program that has ever "gone away without a trace" is MSFS.We sure did not click(s) on something to shut it down!

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