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Major misstep again by Wilco/feelThere!!!

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The Embraer E175/195's are larger in length then the released version of the E170/190's from Wilco/feelThere which means the Northwest Airlink, LOT, US Airways, Flybe, Montenegro Airlines and Royal Jordanian E's are incorrect! Vic from feelThere please come up with the other two models!!!For $59.00 (complete version) it should be correct...Darryl

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Hmmm - the Wilco/Feelthere E170/190 package has not yet been released, so I am not sure how you are able to make this type of announcement.:-hmmm

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It's at another website...the preview paints are being shown.For instance a great quality Flybe paint was applied to a E190 body instead of the E195 which is approx. 8 feet longer!See for yourself: http://www.flightsimworld.com/forums/index...howtopic=148962>Hmmm - the Wilco/Feelthere E170/190 package has not yet been>released, so I am not sure how you are able to make this type>of announcement.>:-hmmm This kind of thing ticks me off...Darryl

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yeah, and LVL-D didn't do the -400 which CO flies. THE HORROR!!!!Honestly, I am sorry this ticks you off but if you want EVERY model created then do it yourself...Why do people EXPECT so many things opposed to graciously wanting them???-PPrimary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E8500 468X9.5 @ 4.45Asus Maximus Extreme2 gigs OCZ Reaper DDR3 @1400Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigs24 inch Widescreen LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sRaid-0+1PCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLIhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg

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Hello Darryl,After reading your post, I understood that WHATEVER Wilco/FeelThere releases, you will find something bad to say about it.In these conditions, I suggest that you do NOT buy the Embraer E-Jets from Wilco...

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I don't really mind the miss of the E175/E195, however I do hope FeelThere goons learned from their disastrous Airbus release.

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Disastrous... This is the right word.I still wonder how I could develop it :+ I am so upset about all the terrible comments I heard about it that today I prefer to have fun of it...

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Of course I doubt it.Many people (including myself) enjoy the Airbus Series, and I saw so many posts where people were saying the aircraft was buggy just because they didn't know how to use it and didn't even read the documentation. Do you want some examples?I agree the first release had bugs, but they were corrected long ago to reach a good level of quality. The real problem is that the (few) unhappy people shout loud, and the happy users don't say anything. So if you read the forums, you only read bad posts...

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Hey Rocky,I do enjoy the V2 big busses... They are not a PMDG 744 but then again, they didn't cost as much either ;) FS2Crew makes them really enjoyable. Can I ask a quick question? Being a Boeing driver I am used to the arc that shows the bottom of your descent point on the PFD. A lot of times when descending with V/S I can gauge my rate of descent with that visual indicator on the Primary Flight Display. I can't seem to find that on the big busses and I have no visual indication of where my descent will end.What am I missing?Thanks in advance,-PaulPrimary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E8500 468X9.5 @ 4.45Asus Maximus Extreme2 gigs OCZ Reaper DDR3 @1400Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigs24 inch Widescreen LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sRaid-0+1PCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLIhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg

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Hello Paul,I am VERY happy that a happy user also posts on this forum, it shows that happy Airbus fliers exist ;-) I know the feature you're talking about. It exists on Boeing aircrafts, and also exists on the CRJ I have modeled in 2004 with FeelThere. This green arc is very convenient to see where you will reach the target altitude, depending on your rate of descent. Unfortunately, it does not exist on the Airbus. I had this confirmed by several Airbus pilots, who didn't know this feature at all...There is another feature on the Airbus ND, which may be confused with the one you're talking about. On the Airbus, you can have a dashed green arc on the ND, which looks like the target altitude arc of the Boeings. But it is not the same. On the Airbus, it shows the total energy of the aircraft. In other words, it shows where you would touch the ground if you loose all the engines. This feature is not simulated in the FeelThere/Wilco Airbus.

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>Of course I doubt it.>Many people (including myself) enjoy the Airbus Series, and I>saw so many posts where people were saying the aircraft was>buggy just because they didn't know how to use it and didn't>even read the documentation. Do you want some examples?>>I agree the first release had bugs, but they were corrected>long ago to reach a good level of quality. The real problem is>that the (few) unhappy people shout loud, and the happy users>don't say anything. So if you read the forums, you only read>bad posts...>>Yes, but the initial release was pretty buggy and a whole lotta people complained about it, so I hope you take care of such things with the Embraer.And I'm seriously not under the impression that many of those bugs which were reported entirely ccme from some users' ignorance. I think this addon was simply rushed out way too early in order to be first to bring out some Airbus addon before the others do.You can clearly tell that since this addon had Boeing callouts...Those issues made me lose my trust in feelThere for now.Nevertheless the E-Jets are of interest for me - but I'll certainly wait for first reports to avoid the aforementioned disappointment.Just my point of view.Regards,

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I partially agree with you, and this is what I said in my previous post: the first version was buggy, and it was a mistake from us. The reasons for this are complex but it was not rushed out because of the competition. We knew they were developing much more advanced projects that would be released much later than ours. As you can see, we were right because 1.5 year later, no competitor product has been released yet.I understand you lost your trust in FeelThere, and I regret it. You should change your mind, and I explain you why:- As the first Airbus Series Vol1 release was buggy, we learnt our lesson and the release of the Volume 2 was much better, no major bug was reported. But I understand you don't want to hear about the Airbus any more...- FeelThere product are developed by different people. In fact, the FeelThere team is composed of several teams. I worked on the CRJ and Airbus Series, but I didn't work on the ERJ, Legacy, Citation and E-Jets. IOW, if you don't like the way the Airbus were developed, you should keep an eye on the E-Jets, they were developed by very talented people at FeelThere (maybe better than me ;-) )I'm happy that we can have this open discussion.

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The preview screenshots on the wilco website look fantastic. I believe this package will be as go as or better than the Legacy. They have a good track record with the Embraer series so I'll be purchasing.

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"Honestly, I am sorry this ticks you off but if you want EVERY model created then do it yourself...Why do people EXPECT so many things opposed to graciously wanting them???"When it comes to freeware I could not agree more. Griping about shortcomings in freeware shows immaturity and poor class, in my opinion.However payware needs to EXCEED expectations, especially since most payware is approaching the $50+ price range. If it isn't 99 pct. accurate in all aspects, then it's no better than a freeware attempt in my opinion. When someone asks for my money, I expect them to do their due diligence. Simulations such as this aren't my cup of tea. I prefer to be at the controls, I don't expect some FMS to do it for me. At the same time, I expect those releasing the product to respect their audience enough to get at least close to the real aircraft: visually, systems wise, and in the flight envelope. If their response or their shills' response is a defensive "Why do you expect so much B.S." then they should be distributing their work freely.Meanwhile I will continue to fly any one of dozens of great freeware and payware aircraft I've found. None of them are perfect, but their authors invested a lot of effort in getting the basics, and then some.Regards,John

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Hey John,I very much agree, if you are going to do a jet, do it right, BUT, people crying because every variant of an A/C model isn't modeled is a bit much IMHO. Like LVL-D, they did a 767-300 but did it right! Don't scream because they didn't do a -200 or a -400 or a -F version which is what the OP is doing.Otherwise I couldn't agree more and it isn't $50 anymore, we are now seeing $60-$90 add-ons. (It must be the price of fuel...)Cheers,-PaulPrimary RigLiquid CooledIntel C2D E8500 468X9.5 @ 4.45Asus Maximus Extreme2 gigs OCZ Reaper DDR3 @1400Dual OC'd XFX 8800GTX @ 2 gigs24 inch Widescreen LCD 16XAA/16XAFDual 19 inch LCD'sRaid-0+1PCPower and Cooling 1k Quad SLIhttp://home.comcast.net/~psolk/3monitorsa.htmlBackup RigAMD 4000 San Diego @ 2.72 Gigs Kingston Corsair XMS CL2XFX 7900 GTX Raid-0psolk.jpg

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In this case though, Wilco/FeelThere are only releasing the E170/E190 models and make no secret of it. They can easily take care of the OP's complaint by simply not releasing the paints for the E175/E195 versions. This, of course, would cause the fans who want those paints and don't care about the 8 extra feet of length to howl with rage.DJ

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>Of course I doubt it.>Many people (including myself) enjoy the Airbus Series, and I>saw so many posts where people were saying the aircraft was>buggy just because they didn't know how to use it and didn't>even read the documentation. Do you want some examples?>>I agree the first release had bugs, but they were corrected>long ago to reach a good level of quality. The real problem is>that the (few) unhappy people shout loud, and the happy users>don't say anything. So if you read the forums, you only read>bad posts...>>I don't think examples are necessary, but there ARE bugs still left which have nothing to do with people not reading the documentation. For example, the way the aircraft handles holding patterns. You cannot seriously tell me that neither you, or the BETA testers, have not picked up this bug. It was there in the initial release, and guess what? It's still there. Another example is that the estimated FOB never updates. Also, the aircraft overshoots some waypoints, especially when they're close together, like a SID or a STAR. How about the way the aircraft intercepts the localizer and glideslope? There's another bug. Also, the aircraft doesn't take wind inputs into account when doing the calculations. Those are some of the bugs still left, and they ARE bugs. It has nothing do to with me, or other users, not reading the documentation.It's a shame really. While the quality is acceptable, there are still bugs that take some of that quality away. I will say that the Wilco/FeelThere Airbus is currently the best on the market, but it could be better. Perhaps you're overlooking those bugs because there's a lack of competition, who knows. But if you fixed those remaining bugs, then the product would be top-notch. You wouldn't have anyone "shouting loud" if you released another service pack that fixed those remaining issues.That brings me to a question: Are you going to fix those bugs? Will there be another service pack? If you're not working on the E-Jets, then it seems to me that you would have time to update the Airbus series. Or if you think the people working on the E-Jets are better than you, and you cannot fix those remaining bugs, then maybe you should give the product to them to polish it and make it the product that it COULD be.I'm really hoping that you will fix those bugs. While the aircraft is flyable now, it could be so much better with all the bugs fixed. I also know I'm not the only one who thinks this.

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>I partially agree with you, and this is what I said in my>previous post: the first version was buggy, and it was a>mistake from us. The reasons for this are complex but it was>not rushed out because of the competition. We knew they were>developing much more advanced projects that would be released>much later than ours. As you can see, we were right because>1.5 year later, no competitor product has been released yet.>>I understand you lost your trust in FeelThere, and I regret>it. You should change your mind, and I explain you why:>- As the first Airbus Series Vol1 release was buggy, we learnt>our lesson and the release of the Volume 2 was much better, no>major bug was reported. But I understand you don't want to>hear about the Airbus any more...>- FeelThere product are developed by different people. In>fact, the FeelThere team is composed of several teams. I>worked on the CRJ and Airbus Series, but I didn't work on the>ERJ, Legacy, Citation and E-Jets. IOW, if you don't like the>way the Airbus were developed, you should keep an eye on the>E-Jets, they were developed by very talented people at>FeelThere (maybe better than me ;-) )>>I'm happy that we can have this open discussion.>Eric, this is the kind of stuff we NEED to see over at the FeelThere forums. We do not get discussion like this over there, it's one reason why I have not purchased anything after Airbus Vol.1...As I said before. I do fully enjoy my Feelthere planes even with the quirks they might have. I miss discussion like this and think it is an important part of customer relations.This plane does have my interest as I flew on one this past spring. You can see my video on YouTube...

I also got some great shots of the cockpit. Any idea of a CD release?

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Reality is much more complex than what you may think. I would like to answer all your points, but I can't. I don't know if there will be another service pack for the Airbus, the destiny of this product is not in my hands any more. It is true that I didn't work on the E-Jets, but it does not mean I have time to work on the Airbus, just because I will not develop any more for FS. I spent 2 years of my life on the Airbus project to see this product considered as a freeware+ product, nobody ever noticed the good points of the product. I don't feel like working again for this. Don't worry, you will not hear about me in the future. Period.

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I'm very sorry to hear that you are leaving the hobby. You will be missed!I have used your freeware panel for the A3XX series for a number of years, and own both V1 and V2 of the FeelThere airbus series. On the whole, I think they are very well done. It is unfortunate that a relatively few, but very vocal, users can force a major talent (IMHO) from our hobby.Regards,DJ

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>Many people (including myself) enjoy the Airbus SeriesIf you as the designer, wouldn't enjoy it, then there would be something seriously wrong. :(

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Eric,I have been an admirer of your work for a long time. I'm also a satisfied Airbus Vol.1 customer. While I will always disagree with the way Wilco handles support of Feelthere's products, I will say that you've been an integral part of this simming community for a very long time, providing both excellent free-, and payware airbus panels. I would be very sad to see you leave and hope you will reconsider after taking some time off, flying your favorite aircraft and enjoying the hobby in a way it probably first drew your attention. I will continue to support, or buy for that matter, any product that you've programmed the gauges for ;-)All the best Eric,Petehttp://members.aol.com/pzsoulman/myhomepage/logo.gifGIGABYTE Light 3D Galaxy II Liquid CoolingENERMAX Galaxy EGA850EWL ATX 850W Power SupplyNVIDIA nForce 680i SLI ATX Intel MoboCore 2 Duo E6700 1066MHz FSB 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775CORSAIR XMS2 2GB SDRAM DDR2 800GeForce 8800GTX 768MB 384-bit GDDR3 PCI ExpressSBlaster X-Fi XtremeMusic 7.12 x Western Digital Raptor 150GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache SATA Raid01 Seagate Barracuda 320GB 7200RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/sWinXP Home SP2CH Yoke/Pedals

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I don't get it. If you can already tell from the released information that a given product doesn't do it for you, you have a simple choice: DON'T BUY IT! What's the big deal? If you want the 175/195 and Feelthere doesn't deliver it, just don't buy it. Personally, I have been waiting for a good 190 forever and won't pass this release up. One would think that none of us here are a) wealthy enough and :( have enough free time on our hands to seriously fly all of the available higher end payware aircraft AND actually gain an understanding of the systems modeling. I have only a handful of payware airliner addons and still don't get enough time at the controls of each to really be proficient. That being said, unless and until you have a certain proficiency with the aircraft systems you're hardly in a position to seriously criticize the designers. Rule No.1 is still: RTFM! I don't have the Wilco/Feelthere A32X series (PSS/Overland merge is just fine for my purposes), but given Eric's contributions to this hobby over the years, he deserves much better treatment than what some have been dishing out here. http://www.commerciallevel.com/base/suppor...46supporter.jpg

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I fully agree with you, Pete, and with DJ. I know Eric personally because the SimScape team has a priviledge partnership with him. The military aircrafts that we propose on the SimScape site wouldn't be there without his help, and the HUD would not exist at all. Eric is a very good developer. Even if the Airbus is not perfect because of the holding pattern and SID-STARS, Eric deserves more than what he had. Who said anything about the fly-by-wire system that nobody else has created on any aircraft? Who said the FCU was working perfect with all the Airbus-specific managed modes? Who said the EFIS were smooth and frame-rate friendly, with nice zooming capabilities? Who said the engine management and FADEC simulation was perfect, without the need of using the keyboard to control the engines? Who noticed the auto-hidden simicons (I love this feature and nobody ever talked about it)?I stop here because this topic was on the Embraer aircrafts. I suggest we all come back to the initial subject. According to the Wilco screenshots, they look good and I will certainly buy them, even if the E190 length is not good.

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