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drdickie

Md-11 Flightplan Problems: Kbos-bikf

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I am attempting to fly an Icelandic route from KBOS-BIKF. I am using the AIRAC 0812 data, and an actual flightplan I got from FlightAware for December 9. The plan is: KBOS-PSM-ENE-J55-PQI-J564-TAFFY-N153C-STEAM-OYSTR-(5600N-0500W)-(6000N-0400W)-(6300N-0300W)-EMBLA-BIKF. All of the waypoints were accepted by the MD-11, and looked proper when reviewed in plan mode. The time and fuel consumption look about right. However, in flight somewhere around PQI-TAFFY, the magenta track disappears even though all the waypoints are still in the computer flightplan. The waypoint STEAM still appears at the top of the map display. The aircraft does not seem to know where it is and ends up about 180 degrees off course. Any suggestions?Thanks.

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I cannot verify my hunch, but I think the problem is fix N153C. I don't have current navdata at work but my old copy does not have this fix in the wpNavFIX.txt file. When you verifed the route in Plan view did this fix appear in the route?

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As I stated in the original message, all looked fine in plan view. And, N153C is a route.

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Of course, it was a cold morning and my brain had a slow start. I have too verifed the route and assuming nothing is wrong with it; did you lose the PROF predictions at the time that the ND stopped displaying the course?

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[ (5600N-0500W)-(6000N-0400W)-(6300N-0300W) ]Have a look at the West coordinates, zero's are missing.Should read, 05000W... 04000W... 03000W.How/what did you enter in the MCDU Flightplan?Regards,Harry

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The coordinates were entered with the correct number of zeros. In fact, I think you have to enter them as N5600.0/W05000.0 to not get a format error. I note that all the waypoints have Lat/Long to one decimal point when you check them out.The last time I tried this flight, the A/P disconnected and the aircraft began a slow diving turn to the left. The only way I could get out of it was to go direct to BIKF. I recall something like this in FS9 on a STAR into KSFO (PYE?) where there was a scenery problem--anyone else recall that?I found another route flown by ICE630 which doe not involve PQI-TAFFY but have not had time to try it yet.Just to check out my system, I tried a flight from KORD to KLAX entering some of the waypoints as Lat/Long. Everything worked just fine.Thanks for all the comments.

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I agree you used the correct shortcut for lat/lon (for others, see article in PMDG Ops knowledge base: http://ops.precisionmanuals.com/wiki/FMC_WP_Entry_Notes ) but I sure would like to figure this one out. My understanding is A/P disconnected, so I wonder if you lost PROF forecasts?? You said the flight plan fixes ahead were still in the FMS but did they have time/speed/alt info??Loss of PROF is a separate problem from loss of A/P. If it was just loss of A/P then I would look for speed variations due to weather winds or temperature, frozen fuel maybe, etc. There is a reason the A/P disconnected and it doesn't sound like a scenery/route problem yet (unless it will repeat the problem at the same location).

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I was flying without weather or winds. I have never ever encountered a frozen fuel problem. I will give it another try and pay more attention this time -- I was grading exams when the last occurrence happened and was brought out of my reverie by "autopilot...autopilot...."Thanks. By the way, Dan, did you ever figure out the "too many runways" at KORD problem?

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A new finding... I attempted this flight again today. All was perfectly normal until passing ENE and 113 nm from PQI when FSX froze and the sound went from normal to something like a rapidly repeating beat/buzz. I let it run like this for about 5 minutes. The only way I could exit was to restart my computer by holding in the power button. This has never happened to me before. I can't say that the two events are related but it is odd.

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Another new finding...I flew this route using the PMDG 747, loading in the saved flightplan from the MD-11 flights. It flew successfully through PQI, but 5.2 nm from TAFFY, I got an altitude alert and the aircraft began to descend. The AP stayed on. At TAFFY, the aircraft flew through the waypoint and did not turn toward STEAM. After trying to get things straightened out, I discovered that the controls were frozen -- no climb, no turn, no response to LNAV, VNAV, etc. The route still appeard on the map, all waypoints were present in the computer. I did notice that the speed at STEAM was listed at 0.843 -- all other waypoints were listed at 0.852. The other fact I noted was that no T/D was calculated for BIKF. Even though the runway appears (11), the altitude was listed as FL390, the cruise level along the route.I am puzzled...

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You got a live one, don't you? These problems are frustrating but interesting. If I get a chance this afternoon, I may try it for myself but there have been many successful NATS flights and then there is this one. Have you ruled out addon sceneries? You don't have to uninstall them, just deselect in the scenery library manager and restart.Yes, the ORD too many runways problem was odd. It is cause when the total number of runways and approaches exceeds a number, and PMDG has my bug report. No feedback on that problem yet because they are trying to get the FS9 MD11 out to everyone.

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I am on your flight plan now, just past TAFFY enroute to STEAM at FL330 with the MD11F using ASX for weather. The only challange was the shifting 130 kt wind from a left quartering headwind to a tailwind, which in the MSFS world causes a loss of airspeed that had to be managed by overriding PROF for a few minutes until the shift was done.So I am pretty sure the problem is not AIRAC 0812 nor the MD11. Hope this helps.

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Another data point...I flew the same route using the 0812 AIRAC with the Level D 767...no problems at all along the route. If you have no problems with MD-11, I guess I will have to look elsewhere.The only add-on I have on my system is FSGenesis scenery. Do you think that could be a problem? But why would the outcome be different with the MD-11, 747-400, and LDS-767 if it was scenery?Thanks for the KORD update.

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Yeah, it is strange. The only thing I can suggest, once you can reproduce the problem with the MD11 and it occurs in the same location, is to turn off the scenery. This is an easy step, turning them on and off only requires checking/unchecking boxes and restarting MSFS. If you can rule out the navdata, the aircraft and the weather (this is also a likely candidate) then all that is left is the scenery files.Make sure you are not having a weather related problem. Note I had to turn PROF off to survive... the wx engine is the worst thing about MSFS.

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Hello. I've been following this thread and got curious, so I flew the route in 747X (I also have FSG installed). FWIW, I had no problems TAFFY to STEAM (FL370). I did experience a little "wiggle" past STEAM, probably due to my 150kt tailwind (which gave me a nice 635kt groundspeed) shifting to a 50kt quartering headwind. Still, the 747 kept track.Interestingly, I experienced a track deviation during descent, about 135 nm out from BIKF. Aircraft banked sharply to the right ("bank warning") and turned about 80 degrees off course. Descent rate was 1250 fpm, and the ND showed I was about 800 feet above descent path. even though I was at least 20nm away from TOD. Winds were shifting, but nothing major.Sorry, I don't have ideas for what causes might be. Just thought I'd share my experience on this route.Regards,

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Thanks Alex, your experience on descent matches mine. The more I play with this the more convinced I am that the problem is the MSFS wx engine.I increased FSUIPC smoothing to 1kt/deg per 8 seconds and still witnessed significant IAS drops approaching Icelandic airspace even though the windshift did not "look" significant. I think the effects of having a poor dynamic model is magnified by the magnitude of the winds that are now occuring, in excess of 145 kts. Yeah, don't see groundspeeds above 620 very often.I remember someone saying their settings were 1kt/deg per 10 seconds. I might give that a try.

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I remember someone saying their settings were 1kt/deg per 10 seconds. I might give that a try.
That is the setting I use.Regards,

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More data on this one.I uninstalled all of the Navigraph 0812 AIRAC from the PMDG folder in FSX, and then installed Navigraph 0811. The same events occurred. Around TAFFY, I lost the magenta flight track between PQI-TAFFY, PROF seemed to quit, and I lost the ability to control the MD-11. All waypoints, etc., remained in the computer flightplan. In fact, the line from TAFFY to steam was showing. It kept flying but it seemed to be in a very wide circle to the left. Again, I was flying under "clear" conditions with no wind or weather.The only major thing I have not tried so far is reinstalling the MD-11. Maybe there is some sort of corruption in the flight computer? Anyone think that would help? Please don't suggest reinstalling FSX!!!Thanks for all the comments so far!

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That is the setting I use.Regards,
I've had success with 1 kt/degree every 2 seconds. It's slow enough to prevent the horrible shifts while still feeling "responsive" I guess, as far as fake wind can feel responsive :)One thing to watch - keep an eye on the barometric pressure and/or the OAT. If that is shifting excessively, you'll get strange aircraft behavior including death rolls and rapid descents. You can keep an eye on OAT with EICAS (well, TAT at least) and for barometric pressure just see if your aircraft altimeter shows big jumps.-stefan

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<<The only major thing I have not tried so far is ..>>Did you try turning off addon scenery?

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I do not know much about scenery. I have FSGenesis installed. I went to the scenery library and disabled items called 0301, 0302, and 0401 that seem to correspond to the FSG scenery covering that part of the world. I got the same result when approaching TAFFY. Are there other items I should also disable?Thanks.

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I haven't had FSGenesis since my last system crashed with everything on board lost. I do recall they have excellent support and a forum, may a few minutes there to see if anyone else has similar problem?? I doubt that their stuff is the problem, since as I recall it is mostly landclass and mesh updates. I'd be more suspicious of any airport sceneries you added, or AFCADs maybe.

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No AFCADS, no airports.I did try another route that ICE630 flies with a similar result approaching EBONY. That route is:KBOS-PSM-EBONY-N135B-REDBY-CARPE-5550N-6040N-6330N-EMBLA-BIKFSo maybe there is something wrong with my scenery because I cannot get a successful flight through that area. However, recall that I did fly the LDS-767 successfully. Is there any reason one sim might interact with the scenery differently from another, such as PMDG -vs- LDS?I guess I will try to reinstall the MD-11, and failing that, FSX. I have been getting a few of those "FSX has to quit now" errors recently.Thanks for your interest, Dan, and all the rest, too.

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I did try another route that ICE630 flies with a similar result approaching EBONY. That route is:KBOS-PSM-EBONY-N135B-REDBY-CARPE-5550N-6040N-6330N-EMBLA-BIKF
Hello again. I flew that route in the 747X and had zero problems. I'm sure that's not what you wanted to hear, though.Regards,

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