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Drumcode

I'm clueless - please help

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I haven't been on top of hardware since about 2004, so I've been spending a lot of time in this section of the AVSIM forum, trying to figure out what I need to get to finally have a decent PC and not the one from the stone age like I have now. There are so many different suggestions from different users that I finally decided to give up reading and ask myself.Here's what I'm looking to do, I'd like to fly in FS9 with add-ons (sceneries, birds, AI) with a great performance (note: doesn't have to superb, lol)I also would like to try flying in FSX with a reasonable perfomance so I don't start hating it right away.I'm debating wheter to get Q6600 or I7 920 Nehalem. I understand the second is newer? What would you get? Can you recommend decent MOBO for each of the two as well. Also, a good inexpensive cooler for OC?4Gb of RAM minimum?I know it's not a proper forum to ask about graphics but since I'm at it, I'll just ask.I can probably only afford a card in a range of GTX260 or GTX9800, maybe I should get something from Radeon series? The ball is in your hands, I have no clue wth I'm doing. :(Thank you very much for any help you can provide. :)

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Here's what I'm looking to do, I'd like to fly in FS9 with add-ons (sceneries, birds, AI) with a great performance (note: doesn't have to superb, lol)I also would like to try flying in FSX with a reasonable perfomance so I don't start hating it right away.I'm debating wheter to get Q6600 or I7 920 Nehalem. I understand the second is newer? What would you get? Can you recommend decent MOBO for each of the two as well. Also, a good inexpensive cooler for OC?4Gb of RAM minimum?I know it's not a proper forum to ask about graphics but since I'm at it, I'll just ask.I can probably only afford a card in a range of GTX260 or GTX9800, maybe I should get something from Radeon series? The ball is in your hands, I have no clue wth I'm doing. :(
If you have a lot of money, there are a lot of options and the answers are difficult. If you want the most for each dollar spent and are not trying to futureproof your computer (if that's even possible) there are some obvious choices.There are some great prices on components to run FS9 like a runaway train and FSX pretty well. In my opinion, the best values are the Intel E8500 Core Duo CPU, and the EVGA GeForce 9800 GT or GTX 512MB DDR3 video card. This combination with 4GB RAM will provide optimum performance. FS can't use more than 2 cores and 4GB ram, and a better (more expensive) video card will not result in any improvement without a higher clock speed CPU. I don't overclock and use the stock CPU cooler, so I don't have a recommendation for a better heatsink/fan. The motherboard may depend on other uses for your computer (ports and slots needed). SLI and Crossfire are of no use for FS currently. I would look for the best prices on Intel chipset MBs and check the Intel website to compare the chipset features.

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Thanks, I was thinking Quad as I don't upgrade very often, I'm still on 2.8Ghz P4, lol. I might splash out the cash and just get I7.

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I haven't been on top of hardware since about 2004, so I've been spending a lot of time in this section of the AVSIM forum, trying to figure out what I need to get to finally have a decent PC and not the one from the stone age like I have now. There are so many different suggestions from different users that I finally decided to give up reading and ask myself.Here's what I'm looking to do, I'd like to fly in FS9 with add-ons (sceneries, birds, AI) with a great performance (note: doesn't have to superb, lol)I also would like to try flying in FSX with a reasonable perfomance so I don't start hating it right away.I'm debating wheter to get Q6600 or I7 920 Nehalem. I understand the second is newer? What would you get? Can you recommend decent MOBO for each of the two as well. Also, a good inexpensive cooler for OC?4Gb of RAM minimum?I know it's not a proper forum to ask about graphics but since I'm at it, I'll just ask.I can probably only afford a card in a range of GTX260 or GTX9800, maybe I should get something from Radeon series? The ball is in your hands, I have no clue wth I'm doing. :(Thank you very much for any help you can provide. :)
You'll get outstanding FS9 performance, even with all the addon trimmings, for a great price from a Q6600 G0 overclocked to 3.2GHz+, an OC friendly motherboard, an Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Cooler, 2GB DDR2 800 RAM or better and a 256MB 7900 or better video card. A well performing FSX system is a whole different story, one which I have been out of touch with since I stopped using FSX about six months ago. There are many others on this forum, especially Nick N, who can advise you on what hardware specs will make this newer FS title fly.Gary

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I haven't been on top of hardware since about 2004, so I've been spending a lot of time in this section of the AVSIM forum, trying to figure out what I need to get to finally have a decent PC and not the one from the stone age like I have now. There are so many different suggestions from different users that I finally decided to give up reading and ask myself.Here's what I'm looking to do, I'd like to fly in FS9 with add-ons (sceneries, birds, AI) with a great performance (note: doesn't have to superb, lol)I also would like to try flying in FSX with a reasonable perfomance so I don't start hating it right away.I'm debating wheter to get Q6600 or I7 920 Nehalem. I understand the second is newer? What would you get? Can you recommend decent MOBO for each of the two as well. Also, a good inexpensive cooler for OC?4Gb of RAM minimum?I know it's not a proper forum to ask about graphics but since I'm at it, I'll just ask.I can probably only afford a card in a range of GTX260 or GTX9800, maybe I should get something from Radeon series? The ball is in your hands, I have no clue wth I'm doing. :(Thank you very much for any help you can provide. :)
1. Coming from stone age do mess with anything but i72. Although 920 will clock I suggest the 940 be purchased to assure that 1: if you do not clock you get a good all purpose CPU for the use. 2: If you do clock a 4GHz clock can be reached easier than with 920 and 920 does have restricted memory multipliers so a future upgrade in memory may be hindered by that. Only go with 920 if your budget simply will not allow for anything else and you should expect to clock any i7 you purchase eventually down the road so plan for it. A 965 is the easiest to clock (unfortunately expensive) and with the multiplier available many different combinations of CPU and memory can be used. In any case eventually you will want to upgrade memory and i7 is much better suited for DDR3 2000 (not available quite yet) than the current offerings so plan ahead. The 940 is really the best choice between cost and use.3. i7 requires 3 sticks of DDR3 memory rated at 1.65v. If you never plan to clock all you need is DDR3 1333 with a timing rating of 6-6-6. If you plan to clock I hightly suggest DDR3 1600 7-7-7 memory. In either case you should get 3x2GB of memory or 6GB total (2GB per stick) and they come in sets. A 64bit OS should be selected to make full use of it in FSX SP2. In FS9 you can use ithe large memory amount too but you must edit the FS9.exe file using special software to allow enable the LARGEADDRESSAWARE and then the application will use up to 4GB total in a 64bit OS. That OS can be Windows Vista x64 or Windows Xp x644. A GTX 260 will go very well with a i7 processor although the 280 would be a better choice for very high clocking. Either one is fine5. The Asus P6T is a nice board and will provide all the features you need to clock should you decide to6. For clocking you will need the right cooling solution. i7 gets hot. The Thermalright 120 Extreme 1366 edtition will do the job. Disable Hyperthreading in the BIOS because neither FS9 or FSX will us it, and, disabling that function will drop temps by as much as 10c. You can clock i7 somewhat without a special cooling solution however about the best you can do is about 3.2Ghz on a 920, 3.4Ghz on a 940 and 3.5Ghz on a 965 (perhaps less if ambient is warm in the room)The Q66 is old news.. it was old news when the Q96 was released. Dont buy 2 year old tech, put yourself in something you can enjoy with much better results for a much greater period of time. What I listed will chew through FS9 and will run FSX on decent settings.. if you clock it it will run FSX on high settings with great results.See FSX setup and tuning here: http://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_post...=29041&PN=1I have not used FS9 in well over 2 years=====================Hey Gary.. nice to see you again :(

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Hey Gary.. nice to see you again :(
Hi Nick. Yes it has been a while since I posted here as I have had a break from FS in general as I focus on other aspects of my life (mid-life crisis? :(). Lots has happened in the hardware world since I had my play with FSXMark07 more than a year ago now and I see you are still right at the forefront of what is needed to get FSX moving along. Keep up the good work!Gary

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Hi Nick. Yes it has been a while since I posted here as I have had a break from FS in general as I focus on other aspects of my life (mid-life crisis? :(). Lots has happened in the hardware world since I had my play with FSXMark07 more than a year ago now and I see you are still right at the forefront of what is needed to get FSX moving along. Keep up the good work!Gary
ohhh goodness.. been there, done thatI traded a life for a boat :(

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ohhh goodness.. been there, done thatI traded a life for a boat :(
Interesting post there about clocking the two systems. I'm looking to go with a clocked 920 with the cash that would of went for the 940 into a 280 over the 260. Unless with a monitor at 1280x1024 resolution that would be a total waste. :) Or getting the 920 clocked a bit higher at 3.4ghz.

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Interesting post there about clocking the two systems. I'm looking to go with a clocked 920 with the cash that would of went for the 940 into a 280 over the 260. Unless with a monitor at 1280x1024 resolution that would be a total waste. :) Or getting the 920 clocked a bit higher at 3.4ghz.
1280x1024? Yes, a bit of overkill although not a waste.. I would pair that up with a 1920x1200 24" widescreen

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1280x1024? Yes, a bit of overkill although not a waste.. I would pair that up with a 1920x1200 24" widescreen
I need to get my computer room redone first to get the space to do two monitors. It's sorta hard to sim and look at the web at the sametime on one monitor. I would like to get my hands on a 25-26 inch widescreen but a good 24 inch would be nice too. :)

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Nick, thank you so much for the valuable info. I went ahead with the 920 and P6T but I screwed up and got only 4 gigs of RAM. Do I need to get additional stick? I got 4Gb of 1600 series.Btw, I can't find that cooler anywhere.

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Nick, thank you so much for the valuable info. I went ahead with the 920 and P6T but I screwed up and got only 4 gigs of RAM. Do I need to get additional stick? I got 4Gb of 1600 series.Btw, I can't find that cooler anywhere.
If you intend to clock you need 3 sticks which are designed for i7 above 1333MHz and rated at no higher than 1.65vThese: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820227381 or These: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820145224Use to model numbers to check different suppliers if the ones above are out of stock The 120 EX 1366 is very backordered becuase of the popularity of i7 now.. Try here: http://www.quietpcusa.com/Thermalright-Ult...er-P507C61.aspxyou may want to call and confirm "in stock"ALSO! Be AWARE that the fan that comes with that is a 3 pin standard fan.. (I use an originaL 120 with my own fan and a updated mount clip) It works with the 4 pin CPU fan motherboards but there is no speed control possible.. I just found that out recently so if you want a proper 4pin PWM fan for it that the motherboard can control speed by, then you need this fan:http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5879/fan..._R121225BU.htmlWhich has a higher CFM rating tooThis is another 1366 cooler for clocking that just hit newegg a while a go http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16835702007I understand the directions for installing it were incorrect and they updated them to the correct the mistakes herehttp://www.vigorgaming.com/components/pdf/...nstructions.pdfProduct Page http://www.vigorgaming.com/components/cmp_...lite_intel.htmlI cant vouch for it since I have never used one but it looks interesting and something I would probably try myselfThe i7 will come with a heatsink and fan.. you can not clock very far on the factory heatsink but you can do some clocking

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Will something happen if I clock it on these two sticks instead?http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...ntent-_-text-_-I was also thinking about going with this cooler, unless it's not necessary.http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8444/cpu...t_LGA_1366.html
The memory you posted is NOT for i7! It has a higher DRAM voltage rating.. anything higher than 1.65v will BURN the processor.. (1.69 is critical)The HSF you posted is the Thermalright but it is out of stock at frozen CPU.. the link I posted above is to the same unit and I think they have them in stock and I also posted an alternative that looks like it may do the job as well

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The memory you posted is NOT for i7! It has a higher DRAM voltage rating.. anything higher than 1.65v will BURN the processor.. (1.69 is critical)The HSF you posted is the Thermalright but it is out of stock at frozen CPU.. the link I posted above is to the same unit and I think they have them in stock and I also posted an alternative that looks like it may do the job as well
Oh man, I didn't even put that it in yet! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! I'll return it to Newegg as soon as it arrives.

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Nick, the OCZ memory just went down on price, is it a good memory?

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Nick, the OCZ memory just went down on price, is it a good memory?
Its the fastest on the market right now at 7-7-7 DDR3 1600 timing...yes

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My parts just came in, I've been out of the loop on hardware for a while as I said before and I am completely SHOCKED on the size of the GTX260, SHOCKED! Why are these new video cards so huge? LOL

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My parts just came in, I've been out of the loop on hardware for a while as I said before and I am completely SHOCKED on the size of the GTX260, SHOCKED! Why are these new video cards so huge? LOL
The difference between the men and the boys is the price and size of their toysbut in this case.. thats how the big single core GPUs come now-a-daysThey are going through a die-shrink now and will come down in size somewhat

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I just helped someone from here set up a 940 on OCZ memory but he was using their 1600 8-8-8 productIts the same memory settings but insead 7-7-7 -24 1T in your casehttp://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/Ya...?num=1231546726He is on a 940 which is highly suggested as they are much easier to get to 4GHz than the 920 regardless of what the hardware sites post about the 920.. !marketing at it best!On a 920 you may only be able to get to 3.7-3.8 GHz due to heat.. using REALTEMP v2.09 or above for i7 support the temp under maximum load should never exceed 80c and you can use the BETA of OCCT which has i7 support to run a 1hour CPU stress test as shown herehttp://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/Ya...?num=1231811588Turn off Hyperthreading in the BIOS as that will drop temps by 5-10c and FSX /FS9 will not make use of itYou will need to learn about i7 clocking too.. do some googling as I am not at my home system and do not have direct links quickly available here to better guides. None the less, overclocking is NEVER attempted until evrything is installed/patched/confirmed. Overclocking is performed last. Never install a OS or software overclocked.The 940 in the links above had no problem reaching 4050GHz and could go further stable if a better cooling solution was involved however the 920 may or may not get to 4050 as it depends a lot on the ambient temp and the installation of the HSF and the fact that the 920 is not quite as easy to get to 4GHz as the hardware sites make it look in order to appeal to 'budget people' in geting traffic to websites as demo'd here due to heat:http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/Ya...?num=1231257262Same motherboard, same memory mfg (slightly higher timing), same HSF... 920/940 were the only differences along with possibly geographic location where ambient temp may be a factorIf you use a 32bit OS you should add in the cache edit just o be safe when using more than 2GBhttp://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/Ya...?num=1231659751That was for XP.. Vista is different and you can see the correct process for XP or Vista listed here with how to install and setup FSX correctlyhttp://www.simforums.com/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=29041Although I strongly suggest the use of a 64bit OS (x64) with FSX as there are no cache edits and the memory will be usedThe first order of business is to get the hardware properly installed .. do read the motherboard manual and make sure the memory is in the correct slots. More than likely you will need to make some BIOS setting changes and possibly upgrade the BIOS once the system is up and running however if you have never upgraded a BIOS I would have a tech do that just to be safe. Once all that is complete get the system OS and software/drivers installed, al lof it, and confirm everything is working... last is clocking and final tuningGood luck!That should be a great system for you coming from old hardware.. I can see you having a lot of fun for some years on it with room for upgrades

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Nick, quite honestly I'm at the point that I'm not sure if I want to overclock this system just yet. I wonder if the stock will run FS9 with add-ons and AI without a problem?FrozenCPU is out of the 120 Extreme for a few days now, Newegg is out of the OCZ memory as well, two things I still need to get, unless I install stock Intel fan and order some other memory. I'm getting more and more anxious now.Thanks again for all the tips, I really don't know what I'm going to do. :(

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Nick, quite honestly I'm at the point that I'm not sure if I want to overclock this system just yet. I wonder if the stock will run FS9 with add-ons and AI without a problem?FrozenCPU is out of the 120 Extreme for a few days now, Newegg is out of the OCZ memory as well, two things I still need to get, unless I install stock Intel fan and order some other memory. I'm getting more and more anxious now.Thanks again for all the tips, I really don't know what I'm going to do. :(
Start slow.. work your way upYou must have the right HSF to clock to 3.5+FS9 will most likely run just fine on the 920 unclocked and even with the factory HSF you can nudge up BCLOCK with everything on auto and still clock a bit safely. When you get your better HSF then look at higher clocking. This is a new system and platform to you.. dont try to slam everything in one day. Take it in steps and learn as you goI will go ahead and post this here as it should help you and others along in the processWhen not overclocking your system can remain on AUTO for the most part however memory speed and timing will most likely require setting. DDR3 1600 is the memory speed, the links I posted will show you the BIOS screen and where the timings go in the BIOS under MANUAL memory timing settings. The first 4 in the list represet the 7-7-7-24 of your memoryCOMMAND RATE for the memory will be 1T, not AUTOIn Windows, the software CPUz 1.49 on the memory tab should show you:Memory speed 800MHz is DDR3 1600.. its memory speedx2 = DDRtiming as 7-7-7-24 and 1T as the commad rate. If it displays that, you have the BIOS set correctlyDRAM VOLTAGE and QPI\DRAM voltage are 2 different things. You can set DRAM voltage to 1.65v manually and thats all it will ever be set to. QPI\DRAM can be AUTO till ready to overclock, then that will be set to no less than 1.31 and no more than 1.37, 1.35 being the norm in a overclock but LOWER is always better for heat. The same is true for Vcore. AUTO is fine till you are ready to overclock above 3.4, then I would say the Vcore will need to come up manually to somewhere between 1.32 and 1.41 depending on how high you try to clock and no higher than 1.42.. LOWER stable is always better.. you find the lowest Vcore that runs stable @ your CPU clock speed. 80c is the MAX that processor should run under a full OCCT CPU 1hr load test.. see the link I provided about REALTEMP 2.9 and OCCT beta for i7LOAD LINE CALIBRATION should be ENABLED when clocking as well to be sure the Vcore is stable with the setting in the BIOS. AUTO is fine when not clocking.DISABLE HT (hyperthreading) in the advanced CPU menu unless you are using the system for video editing or with other software that uses HT. HT is useless to MSFS.When clocking the CPU a few other menu items should be set like this:Intel SpeedStep Tech DisabledIntel Turbo Mode Tech DisabledCPU Spread Spectrum DisabledPCI Spread Spectrum DisabledC1E Support DisabledIntel Virtualization Tech DisabledCPU TM Function DisabledIntel HT Technology Disabled <--- HyperthreadingIntel C-STATE Tech EnabledACPI 2.0 Support Enabled (only if you use older PCI cards, otherwise DISABLED)Remember, a i7 920 uncloked is going to be much faster than anything you have used but clocked up, even only clocked to 3.0GHz or so that processor will smear anything you have seen before.Clocking the CPU is done by increasing the setting BCLOCK. default is 133. The higher that goes the faster the CPU speed, HOWEVER, you need to watch the MEMORY SPEED. As you increase BCLOCK the memory speed goes up so you can end up unstable if that goes too high. You must adjust the memory multiplier and memory speed to it a. remains at or below 1600b. remains stable at just over 1600c. Get it as close to 1600 as possible@ 4GHz you will have the 1600 option available but below that you will only be able to run 1600 unclocked so be aware you may end up in example at 3.7GHz and only running 1500 (or so) MHz which is NORMAL. The 1600 memory was purchased so you COULD clock and run higher than 1333.Thats all I have time for today...Good luck!

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Just a note about the P6T Deluxe MB. You may wish to update the BIOS as soon as you get the board up and running, particularly if you are using RAM rated for 1600 and an i7 920 (as I am.)When I received mine, it had the v1003 BIOS. That BIOS only had DRAM Frequency options of 1800 and 2000. When set to Auto, it ran my 1600 RAM at 1066. The updated BIOS v1102 added a bunch more to the selection, including 1600. This will help set the RAM while running at stock speeds, and will really help when OC'ing to keep the RAM at it's rated speed until ready to OC the RAM as well.Regards,...jim

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FrozenCPU is out of the 120 Extreme for a few days now, Newegg is out of the OCZ memory as well, two things I still need to get, unless I install stock Intel fan and order some other memory. I'm getting more and more anxious now.Thanks again for all the tips, I really don't know what I'm going to do. :(
Sorry Drumcode, I think I got that last 6G kit of OCZ 3P1600LV6GK 7-7-7-24 memory. But, when they get more in, you will pay $20 less than I did. FrozenCpu has a new supply of the Thermalright 120 Extreme coolers. Just ordered mine today and it got out the door too, it's on it's way already, that was fast!

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