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Guest cliffie1931

The FMCU and Navigraph STARS for KBOS are different.

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I thought I had got to grips with using approach charts to decide the appropriate STAR. But I've been brought up short by the problem explained below.When planning a flight from KJFK to runway 33L at KBOS I used the Navigraph chart options from which I selected the STAR "NORWICH3". This meets, I think, the criteria need for landing on 33L. The STAR options offered by Navigraph are:GARDENER3NORWICH3SCUPP3RNAV INNDY2However when programming the flight in the MD-11's FMCU the STAR options are different and don't include "NORWICH3"They are:GDM3.ALLINNDY.ALLORW3.ALLSCUPP4.ALLWOONS1I'm now at sea. Should I be using a different chart source and, if so, which one? Cliff

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I thought I had got to grips with using approach charts to decide the appropriate STAR. But I've been brought up short by the problem explained below.When planning a flight from KJFK to runway 33L at KBOS I used the Navigraph chart options from which I selected the STAR "NORWICH3". This meets, I think, the criteria need for landing on 33L. The STAR options offered by Navigraph are:GARDENER3NORWICH3SCUPP3RNAV INNDY2However when programming the flight in the MD-11's FMCU the STAR options are different and don't include "NORWICH3"They are:GDM3.ALLINNDY.ALLORW3.ALLSCUPP4.ALLWOONS1I'm now at sea. Should I be using a different chart source and, if so, which one? Cliff
ORW3 is the NORWICH3 STAR. It is the shortened code for it. If you look at the actual chart, it shows this in paranthesis at the bottom. Hope this helps.

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ORW3 is the NORWICH3 STAR. It is the shortened code for it. If you look at the actual chart, it shows this in paranthesis at the bottom. Hope this helps.
Now that's quite something Greg. Related queries, if I may?1. If I choose (using Navigraph) what I believe to be the correct STAR then find it's not included in the FMCU how do I learn whether and what alternate names are used in the FMCU selection? Without that knowledge I can't programme the flight.2. Sorry but I can't locate the word ORW3 anywhere on the NORWICH3 STAR chart. You note that it's in paranthesis at the bottom but I don't see it. Are you reading it on the Navigraph chart?3. How did you learn that ORW3 is the alternative name for NORWICH3? I ask the question as presumably there will be other instances of Navigraph STARS having different descriptions in the FMCU.Cliff

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I'm not sure about the Navigraph charts but I obtain my charts free at FlightAware.com and if you look at the Norwich3 chart it clearly lists ORW3.http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/K...R/NORWICH+THREEI think different chart makers do different things.Sean
Fabulous. Not does only FlightAware offer charts (with both names included) but it supplies a Flight Plan which includes the relevant STAR as you can see below.KJFK KBOS 19000 MERIT ORW ORW082 PVD263 PVD ORW3Just what I'd been hoping to find one day.My thanks to both of you for helping me up another notch on my learning curve. With my regards................Cliff (In sunny Spain)

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I'm not sure about the Navigraph charts but I obtain my charts free at FlightAware.com and if you look at the Norwich3 chart it clearly lists ORW3.http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/K...R/NORWICH+THREEI think different chart makers do different things.Sean
Older VOR-based procedures with names like NORWICH (longer than five characters) have shortnames assigned by the FAA for use in their computer systems. The only authority in the US is the FAA NACO office, even Jepp charts are based on data from NACO. Newer procedures generally have a five character name with the benefit of not needing a shortname (e.g., INNDY SCUPP).While on the subject, if you use my sidstar collection each location file such as KBOS.txt will have a header with information on all the procedures encoded for that location:// ARRIVALS// FAA Filename Procedure Name/Date// Enumeration Landing Vectors or IAP// 00058GARDNER GARDNER THREE 07298 W/SW (ALB JFK)// GDM3 # Vectors// GDM3.4R 4R ILS04R// GDM3.22L 22L ILS22L// GDM3.27 27 ILS27// GDM3.33L 33L ILS33L// 00058INNDY INNDY TWO (RNAV) 08101 SW (CCC HTO JFK)// INNDY2 # Vectors// INNDY2.4R 4R ILS04R// INNDY2.22L 22L ILS22L// INNDY2.27 27 ILS27// INNDY2.33L 33L ILS33L// 00058NORWICH NORWICH THREE 07298 SW (CCC HTO JFK) RNAV Equipped use INNDY// ORW3 # Vectors// ORW3.4R 4R ILS04R// ORW3.22L 22L ILS22L// ORW3.27 27 ILS27// ORW3.33L 33L ILS33L// 00058SCUPP SCUPP FOUR 08269 SW (HFD JFK PVD RAALF) NATS arrivals join STAR at fix SCUPP// SCUPP4 27 Vectors// SCUPP4.4R 4R ILS04R// SCUPP4.27 27 ILS27// SCUPP4.33L 33L ILS33L// SCUPP4.VIS33L 33L 33L visual approach, select RNW 33L for approach instead of ILS// # = Rnws 04R/15R/22L/27/33L// (Select IAP listed above without a transition, the procedure routes to the FAF)// Exceptions: WOONS ONE ARRIVAL - Props Only// APPROACHES// FAA Filename Procedure Name Revision/Date// 00058I4RC3 ILS RWY 4R (CAT III) Amdt 9B 09015// 00058I15R ILS RWY 15R Amdt 1B 09015// 00058I22L ILS RWY 22L Amdt 7 09015// 00058I27 ILS RWY 27 Amdt 2 09015// 00058I33LC2 ILS RWY 33L (CAT II) Amdt 3 09015// 00058R4R RNAV (GPS) RWY 4R Orig-D 09015// 00058R15R RNAV (GPS) RWY 15R Orig-B 09015// 00058R22L RNAV (GPS) RWY 22L Orig 09015// 00058R27 RNAV (GPS) RWY 27 Orig-A 09015// 00058R32 RNAV (GPS) RWY 32 Orig-A 09015// 00058R33L RNAV (GPS) RWY 33L Orig-B 09015// 00058VD15R VOR/DME RWY 15R Amdt 2A 09015// 00058VD27 VOR/DME RWY 27 Amdt 2B 09015 Procedure Turn SWAYS Transition// 00058VD33L VOR/DME RWY 33L Amdt 2C 09015// Exceptions:// VOR/DME or GPS-A Circling Only// RY14/32 UNIDIRECTIONAL; NO LNDGS RY 14; NO TAKEOFFS RY 32// BTN 0000-0600 - RY 15R IS PREFERENTIAL NGT RY FOR TKOF & RY 33L IS PREFERENTIAL NGT RY FOR LNDG// RNW 15L/33R EXCLUDED - 2557 FTGive the collection a try. Note your arrival on ORW is connected to four ILS approaches based on observations of actual traffic flows, handy if you are not using an ATC service.

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Older VOR-based procedures with names like NORWICH (longer than five characters) have shortnames assigned by the FAA for use in their computer systems. The only authority in the US is the FAA NACO office, even Jepp charts are based on data from NACO. Newer procedures generally have a five character name with the benefit of not needing a shortname (e.g., INNDY SCUPP).While on the subject, if you use my sidstar collection each location file such as KBOS.txt will have a header with information on all the procedures encoded for that location:// ARRIVALS// FAA Filename Procedure Name/Date// Enumeration Landing Vectors or IAP// 00058GARDNER GARDNER THREE 07298 W/SW (ALB JFK)// GDM3 # Vectors// GDM3.4R 4R ILS04R// GDM3.22L 22L ILS22L// GDM3.27 27 ILS27// GDM3.33L 33L ILS33L// 00058INNDY INNDY TWO (RNAV) 08101 SW (CCC HTO JFK)// INNDY2 # Vectors// INNDY2.4R 4R ILS04R// INNDY2.22L 22L ILS22L// INNDY2.27 27 ILS27// INNDY2.33L 33L ILS33L// 00058NORWICH NORWICH THREE 07298 SW (CCC HTO JFK) RNAV Equipped use INNDY// ORW3 # Vectors// ORW3.4R 4R ILS04R// ORW3.22L 22L ILS22L// ORW3.27 27 ILS27// ORW3.33L 33L ILS33L// 00058SCUPP SCUPP FOUR 08269 SW (HFD JFK PVD RAALF) NATS arrivals join STAR at fix SCUPP// SCUPP4 27 Vectors// SCUPP4.4R 4R ILS04R// SCUPP4.27 27 ILS27// SCUPP4.33L 33L ILS33L// SCUPP4.VIS33L 33L 33L visual approach, select RNW 33L for approach instead of ILS// # = Rnws 04R/15R/22L/27/33L// (Select IAP listed above without a transition, the procedure routes to the FAF)// Exceptions: WOONS ONE ARRIVAL - Props OnlyThanks for the info Dan.Regards..............Cliff// APPROACHES// FAA Filename Procedure Name Revision/Date// 00058I4RC3 ILS RWY 4R (CAT III) Amdt 9B 09015// 00058I15R ILS RWY 15R Amdt 1B 09015// 00058I22L ILS RWY 22L Amdt 7 09015// 00058I27 ILS RWY 27 Amdt 2 09015// 00058I33LC2 ILS RWY 33L (CAT II) Amdt 3 09015// 00058R4R RNAV (GPS) RWY 4R Orig-D 09015// 00058R15R RNAV (GPS) RWY 15R Orig-B 09015// 00058R22L RNAV (GPS) RWY 22L Orig 09015// 00058R27 RNAV (GPS) RWY 27 Orig-A 09015// 00058R32 RNAV (GPS) RWY 32 Orig-A 09015// 00058R33L RNAV (GPS) RWY 33L Orig-B 09015// 00058VD15R VOR/DME RWY 15R Amdt 2A 09015// 00058VD27 VOR/DME RWY 27 Amdt 2B 09015 Procedure Turn SWAYS Transition// 00058VD33L VOR/DME RWY 33L Amdt 2C 09015// Exceptions:// VOR/DME or GPS-A Circling Only// RY14/32 UNIDIRECTIONAL; NO LNDGS RY 14; NO TAKEOFFS RY 32// BTN 0000-0600 - RY 15R IS PREFERENTIAL NGT RY FOR TKOF & RY 33L IS PREFERENTIAL NGT RY FOR LNDG// RNW 15L/33R EXCLUDED - 2557 FTGive the collection a try. Note your arrival on ORW is connected to four ILS approaches based on observations of actual traffic flows, handy if you are not using an ATC service.

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