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Guest chrut

Altitude Profile Point and Identifier

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Guest chrut

Alright, so if this is a bug... how do I report it?

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You can try to drop PMDG support with the problem, but being a old product it's highly unlikely there will be a patch forthcoming. Pity this wasn't caught earlier.


Nathan

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Guest chrut
You can try to drop PMDG support with the problem, but being a old product it's highly unlikely there will be a patch forthcoming. Pity this wasn't caught earlier.
Why wouldn't it be updated, so they just stop update a product even though there are faults within it? If that were they case, they have to write something at their homepage stating that no support/updates aren't going to be released for the B747 (I bought mine like a week ago) and so the buyer can evalute if it's worth buying the product in that case. And this isn't just one issue that needs a look through, there is a problem with THR reduction also (selecting any other flap setting than 5 isn't possible).

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Why wouldn't it be updated, so they just stop update a product even though there are faults within it? If that were they case, they have to write something at their homepage stating that no support/updates aren't going to be released for the B747 (I bought mine like a week ago) and so the buyer can evalute if it's worth buying the product in that case. And this isn't just one issue that needs a look through, there is a problem with THR reduction also (selecting any other flap setting than 5 isn't possible).
I think what was meant was that you should not expect a patch to be released just for this issue. It really is just not important enough, on its own, to justify the effort and costs involved, proven by the fact that nobody has noticed it before, despite what must be many millions of flight hours this product has had. I am not attempting to diminish your find, on the contrary, I compliment you on your attention to detail, and I am sure there are quite a few people out there who are kicking themselves for not having noticed it before. Well done! I think it is reasonable to hope that one of the developers will have a look and if a reasonable solution can be found, then it will be included in the next patch for this product, when ever that may be.

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Guest chrut
I think what was meant was that you should not expect a patch to be released just for this issue. It really is just not important enough, on its own, to justify the effort and costs involved, proven by the fact that nobody has noticed it before, despite what must be many millions of flight hours this product has had. I am not attempting to diminish your find, on the contrary, I compliment you on your attention to detail, and I am sure there are quite a few people out there who are kicking themselves for not having noticed it before. Well done! I think it is reasonable to hope that one of the developers will have a look and if a reasonable solution can be found, then it will be included in the next patch for this product, when ever that may be.
Yes, agreed. I really wouldn't like PMDG to stop careing for their products, otherwise it should be stated, because that is what I think makes PMDG great when compared to other addon-developers and it was that idea of superb support that made me buy PMDG 744X.For example, Hifi Active Sky Advanced and PMDG 747 have a problem with S-turns and how the plane reacts with weather generated by ASA... It would be really sad if say PMDG said: no... we aren't going to take a look at this etc. Of course, I can't expect everything to be fixed as there are limitations within the simulator (FSX) and most of the core program/textures can't be updated (that would basicly mean a new product, which need to be bought). But seeing as this issue, to my belief, could be fixed without too much effort (I'm not an addon-dev and this is just what I think) - I really hope that PMDG would take a look at this and the THR reduction issue.

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Just my opinion, isn't this just an error in the AOM? I am thinking the sim is correct but the manual should say you will not see a S/C symbol at a waypoint that is also a step waypoint. As far as the flap restriction entry, I think the manual should say Flaps5 is only setting for thrust reduction. I doubt that the small company is going to assign resources to fix things in the 747 AOM at this time, but they will probably keep track of the "squawks" and incorporate them into any future revision they might release.


Dan Downs KCRP

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Guest chrut
Just my opinion, isn't this just an error in the AOM? I am thinking the sim is correct but the manual should say you will not see a S/C symbol at a waypoint that is also a step waypoint. As far as the flap restriction entry, I think the manual should say Flaps5 is only setting for thrust reduction. I doubt that the small company is going to assign resources to fix things in the 747 AOM at this time, but they will probably keep track of the "squawks" and incorporate them into any future revision they might release.
S/C problem is a real issue (S/C should be visible when "pinned" to a fix) and THR reduction might just as you say be an error in the manual. However, I've reported this to PMDG, let's see how they react and say first. They are in a better position than me/you to decide this. All I'm doing is reporting, as I want the PMDG 747 to be as real as it can be.

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Hi, my quotation was from the real Aircraft AOM, so this is not a fault of the PMDG Manual, this one is a real bug. Could you please check if the S/C appears / disappears in the normal map mode beside the plan view? According to the PMDG Manual Cockpit_overview page 25, Altitude Profile Pointand Identifier (G) shouldn't be available in the plan view, only in the map and centerd map compass. I don't have acces to the real AOM at the moment. Jan-Paul

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Guest chrut
Hi, my quotation was from the real Aircraft AOM, so this is not a fault of the PMDG Manual, this one is a real bug. Could you please check if the S/C appears / disappears in the normal map mode beside the plan view? According to the PMDG Manual Cockpit_overview page 25, Altitude Profile Pointand Identifier (G) shouldn't be available in the plan view, only in the map and centerd map compass. I don't have acces to the real AOM at the moment. Jan-Paul
Let's hope so, will double check. But why can those S/C labels be found in the Virgin atlantic picture when in PLAN mode?EDIT: And why would the S/C symbols that FMS created show in the PLAN view for that matter?

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I believe you'll find that not all fmc functions can be fully used in the sim amd this is just an example of what can't be. There is no atc funtion either, not a bug, just not implemented for whatever reason.All step climbs are requests anyway and if atc say not available then that's it, not available.Anyway it still shows an altitude, just no 'S'... why worry?John Ellison

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Guest chrut
I believe you'll find that not all fmc functions can be fully used in the sim amd this is just an example of what can't be. There is no atc funtion either, not a bug, just not implemented for whatever reason.All step climbs are requests anyway and if atc say not available then that's it, not available.Anyway it still shows an altitude, just no 'S'... why worry?John Ellison
Well, I'm what you call a simulation addict and strive for maxiumum realism. I understand that not all functions aren't implented, such as MAINT, ACARS, ATC etc. and that they are limited by the flight simulator itself. That I understand and have no conflct with. It was even stated before I even bought the product in the PMDG manuals and I was aware of this, but still bought the product.But as I've looked through the bug history reports, the manual itself and the support page at PMDG website - I got the impression that when a bug is founded, it will be corrected somehow (or atleast acknowledged to be released in the future). What I thought was that the PMDG 747 was still being offically supported by PMDG and was therefor an "active" product. These were one of the reasons why I bought the PMDG 747 and if the case were that there would be no support, I would've probably bought the PMDG MD11 (seeing as it's "active and recent"). What would I have done for example if the PMDG747 did have a major fault with my computer and no support was given? Perhaps I must have missed some information about this...What I'm trying to say is that as 20-year old student with no steady job, it took me a really long time to buy a computer that could run FS and then buy PMDG747. In this way I have a right to "request" certain fixes, seeing as I bought the product in the belief of product support. I'm not trying to anger anyone and I really hate that I found out about this issue. But I feel helpless if I buy a product and can't have a say in what I liked to be corrected for better realism. Furthermore, I understand that PMDG can't provide service updates for a lifetime, but then I think there should be some information about this so the buyer can evalute if it's still worth buying the product or not. And in this way, this whole mess could have been averted.--------------------I'll double check if it's viewable in the MAP view mode. But why are the FMS generated ones visible in PLAN mode and not the crew entered? And why can those S/C labels be seen in the RL picture (Virigin atlantic) when in PLAN view?

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Hi Sami,Putting it back in context, there is no green circle on one display screen, in a single mode, which (it is argued) should remind the pilot of something they already know. That is your bug. Nobody has ever noticed it before. Not everybody was even sure you were correct. And yet you seem to be expecting someone from PMDG to drop everything and rush around to your house and fix it. Right now. And you want sympathy from the rest of us for not getting the service you expect? Why? Do you think that is a reasonable expectation? Are you aware of any other product or service in which you would expect that sort of response to even a major failure in a product at that price range? How about a product one thousand times that price range? Buy a car and the engine falls out, the dealer will tell you to bring it in but probably wont come and collect it, and even then, only while it is within stated warrenty. Buy a house and the roof falls in. Tough. Hope you have insurance or good friends. Buy (or steal) software that is missing one green circle on one screen ....Nobody has said that this and/or other known problems will not be fixed. Nobody has said that there will be no future updates or patches. They have simply pointed out the pretty obvious facts that there are no major issues outstanding and that there are no currently planned patches announced or expected. In the light of that, would you agree that your repeated comments along the lines of "PMDG do not support", "have stopped supporting" and "wouldn't have bought if I had known" are not justified? You have found the problem. You have reported the problem. Move on and enjoy the rest of the product. There is an awful lot more in there to surprise, delight and enjoy.

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Guest chrut
Hi Sami,Putting it back in context, there is no green circle on one display screen, in a single mode, which (it is argued) should remind the pilot of something they already know. That is your bug. Nobody has ever noticed it before. Not everybody was even sure you were correct. And yet you seem to be expecting someone from PMDG to drop everything and rush around to your house and fix it. Right now. And you want sympathy from the rest of us for not getting the service you expect? Why? Do you think that is a reasonable expectation? Are you aware of any other product or service in which you would expect that sort of response to even a major failure in a product at that price range? How about a product one thousand times that price range? Buy a car and the engine falls out, the dealer will tell you to bring it in but probably wont come and collect it, and even then, only while it is within stated warrenty. Buy a house and the roof falls in. Tough. Hope you have insurance or good friends. Buy (or steal) software that is missing one green circle on one screen ....Nobody has said that this and/or other known problems will not be fixed. Nobody has said that there will be no future updates or patches. They have simply pointed out the pretty obvious facts that there are no major issues outstanding and that there are no currently planned patches announced or expected. In the light of that, would you agree that your repeated comments along the lines of "PMDG do not support", "have stopped supporting" and "wouldn't have bought if I had known" are not justified? You have found the problem. You have reported the problem. Move on and enjoy the rest of the product. There is an awful lot more in there to surprise, delight and enjoy.
Yes, I agree with you 100%. This is what I think: IF this is a bug, perhaps it's just for me I don't know, that perhaps next time PMDG would release a service update in the future, that this one could be included in the next one. I would for example also would like to see that PMDG makes the transponder work with Squawkbox and simconnect. And regarding no support comments, those were said to give an impression what I would have done if I knew, for example, that no support was given (no patch releases etc.). Please don't shed a black light on me, as I try to be as fair as I can be.I don't want sympathy from any of you, I wanted you to have a better understanding were I came from and why I'm "nagging" so much. And, this is the most important part, I'm not here to argue with you what you think is fair/juste when speaking of support. You and I have obviously diffrent views. With your response, you take it to a new level. Enough of that, this is really not why I even made this thread.This thread was made so that I can report what my problem was and I've done that. I then mailed PMDG and the ball is in their hands. I simply did this because I thought that I was, for the first time, conbrituing to the great FS-community. And if PMDG don't want to, don't have time, don't care about, don't have the recourses - then they will say so. And I will deal with it, as it's MY problem and not yours. So enough arguing about what YOUR expectations of support are compared to mine. I haven't really understod myself how this just spun out of topic and have now come to this... but what I see is that PMDG REALLY, REALLY has a strong fanbase. And well, that's great to see... hehe. But please, just don't speak for them. If they say that my expectation is inreasonable - then that is what they will do.So I just wanted to thank everyone who have tried to help me, not just in this thread but in other ones where I needed help. I see that there's great amount of knowledge in this forum and by spending time here I could really learn a thing or two.

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