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markturner

Advice please re memory errors and slowdowns

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Hi, I am hoping NickN or any other hardware guru can help me out.I have a fresh install of windows and FSX. I twas working fine for a couple of weeks, as I gradually added my extras and scenery. My buddy who built the system has overclocked it some, settings are:core voltage 1.36core speed 2280multiplier 6bus speed 380.1rated fsb 1520stepping 7memory dram 760timings 8-8-8-27FSB:DRam 1:2Now all my photoscenery is loaded, I am getting very slow GUI when clicking between weather, planes etc. The spinning plane in the window is slow and corrupted sometimes. I have also started getting crashes, with a FSX error message saying the system has run out of available memory. In game, performance is good, and very smooth. The tweaks I have used are TBM at 80, Bufferpools at 490. Apart from that, no mods to .cfg fileI had another set of graphics issues (corrupted graphics, crashes with a driver error message) after usingthe HDR mod and the frame rate limiter that seems to have been resolved by removing the HDR files, and doing a complete driver clean and re install.I sometimes get the plane models corrupted in the game as well, if that is any clue.I would appreciate any advice, as its driving me crazy, I am contemplating a complete reinstall, but want to get some advice first, as it will take me another 2 weeks in my spare time to get it all loaded on again. Thx, Mark

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Hi, I am hoping NickN or any other hardware guru can help me out.I have a fresh install of windows and FSX. I twas working fine for a couple of weeks, as I gradually added my extras and scenery. My buddy who built the system has overclocked it some, settings are:core voltage 1.36core speed 2280multiplier 6bus speed 380.1rated fsb 1520stepping 7memory dram 760timings 8-8-8-27FSB:DRam 1:2Now all my photoscenery is loaded, I am getting very slow GUI when clicking between weather, planes etc. The spinning plane in the window is slow and corrupted sometimes. I have also started getting crashes, with a FSX error message saying the system has run out of available memory. In game, performance is good, and very smooth. The tweaks I have used are TBM at 80, Bufferpools at 490. Apart from that, no mods to .cfg fileI had another set of graphics issues (corrupted graphics, crashes with a driver error message) after usingthe HDR mod and the frame rate limiter that seems to have been resolved by removing the HDR files, and doing a complete driver clean and re install.I sometimes get the plane models corrupted in the game as well, if that is any clue.I would appreciate any advice, as its driving me crazy, I am contemplating a complete reinstall, but want to get some advice first, as it will take me another 2 weeks in my spare time to get it all loaded on again. Thx, Mark
Take out the bufferpools tweek. I bet that will fix it.Jim W

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The information you've provided tells me that speedstep is still enabled. You don't want this feature on when you're o/c'ing. Without knowing your other voltages I can't say that everything is configured properly, but turning off speedstep would be a good start.

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Hi, is that a bios tweak ? I will have a dig around and look for it. What would the consequences of having this on be? Does it look like the culprit for my ills? thx, MarkEdit, I have found the stepping setting in the bios and set it to disabled, however when I ran CPUz again, it reported stepping as 7. I checked the bios again and it was definitely off. Any ideas????Oh, and Jim, i removed the bufferpools entry, so will report back later if it helps!!thanks very much for all the advice!!

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Did you try taking out the BP tweek. The messed up models indicates to me that you are using up all your GPU ram.

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Did you try taking out the BP tweek. The messed up models indicates to me that you are using up all your GPU ram.
If the interface is slow,, it is probably speedstep, because it throttles the frequency. The frequency of his processor is also pretty low if its overclocked.

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thx for the advice, I disabled stepping in the bios, but it still reports at 7 in cpuz, any idea why? What settings for the overclock would you guys recommend? I dont want to go mad, 3.2 would be fine, I want stability really, cheers, Mark

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Oh, and one more question!! I have been going back through my setup, using Nick's guide, and tried setting up my paging file as he suggested, however, I was unable to delete the old pagefile from my windows folder, error message said it was in use, despite no other programmes being in use. I have set the values as he said and the paage file in question was overwritten by the new ione when i re started. Is that all cool? cheers, Mark

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Hi guys, just ran CPUz again and it now reports core speed as 3040 ( but fluctuating slightly, on the desktop) multiplier as 8. Stepping still shows as 7 (showed as 8 last night when I ran cpuz) Any ideas why a) it still shows stepping enabled, despite me turning it off in the biosB0 why what it shows varies? ( different reported values for stepping and core speed?)I also turned off all the options in the advanced tab such as the vanderpool, TM etc, all as per Nickn's advice in his thread on tuning windows. My problem is I have limited knowledge of overclocking and dont really know what I am doing....!!PS, I was gonna screen snap my cpuz settings, but cant find where the pictures are saved too when i press "print screen" any help?

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Guest Nick_N

MarkI am not at home and just came across this post ... along with another one I saw today from you in the main FSX forum about OOM.http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=249474I think you have problems here that may be a combination of 'your buddy' your hardware (8-8-8 @ DDR2 760 or DDR3 760MHz?.. I assume DDR2 from the other specs and thats not good) and your FSX setting/cfg editsI will look at this and post back more as I have time however I can not address this right at the momentFrom all the posts I have seen on the forum from you.. there is something not right with this system, at all

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Mark, the "stepping" you're referring to has no bearing on the speed of your processor. It is a manufacturing term. SpeedStep is a technology used by Intel to dynamically control the frequency and voltage their processors use. This helps keep power consumption and heat output down when the processor is not being used heavily. The setting you're looking for is called "multiplier".

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Hi, thanks for pitching in Nick, from your replies in the other thread, I can see that the doctors diagnosis is not good!!!However I am now completey confused about what to do, so, I will refrain from touching anything else meanwhile and hope that you can have a look in depth at my system settings etc and advise. Please let me know which further info you may need. If it helps, I use the vista64 install purely for FSX. MY install is accelleration, so presume is SP2. Oh, and my memory specs are:OCZ 2GB DDR3 PC3-14400C8 1800MHz Platinum (2x1GB) Dual Channel DDR3 (OCZ3P18002GK)thx, Mark

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Mark, the "stepping" you're referring to has no bearing on the speed of your processor. It is a manufacturing term. SpeedStep is a technology used by Intel to dynamically control the frequency and voltage their processors use. This helps keep power consumption and heat output down when the processor is not being used heavily. The setting you're looking for is called "multiplier".
Hi Max, do you mean that stepping SHOULD be enabled in the bios? And that it is a different setting that needs to be adjusted? I read in one of Nicks other posts that if you have overclocked, than stepping needs to be disabled, so thats what i did. As I said though, I dont really understand all this ( am trying to learn though!!) so perhaps I should wait for the definitive from NickN on the situation.thx for the advice, Mark

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Guest Nick_N
Hi, thanks for pitching in Nick, from your replies in the other thread, I can see that the doctors diagnosis is not good!!!However I am now completey confused about what to do, so, I will refrain from touching anything else meanwhile and hope that you can have a look in depth at my system settings etc and advise. Please let me know which further info you may need. If it helps, I use the vista64 install purely for FSX. MY install is accelleration, so presume is SP2. Oh, and my memory specs are:OCZ 2GB DDR3 PC3-14400C8 1800MHz Platinum (2x1GB) Dual Channel DDR3 (OCZ3P18002GK)thx, Mark
I did not see your sig when I posted the first time.. Since I am not at home I do not have a lot of time to review posts right nowThe first part of this his is a repeat of what I posted in the FSX forum.. it applies here so I copied it to this thread. Below it I wrote new comment...==============================================You have hardware issues and most likely they are tied back to your clock and 1st generation DDR3 1800 memory in which to run 1800 you must overclock. OCZ DDR3 1800 is well known for requiring special BIOS settings most people, even mildly experienced overclockers, do not understand nor do they understand how to test and set up to run 1800 stable. With 1st generation DDR3 OCZ frowns on DDR3 1800 @ 2x2GB and the chipsets of the past due to the issues in BIOS tuning when running 1600 and above with their products. Tony at OCZ explained that here: http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/sh...ead.php?t=38358http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/sh...ead.php?t=40747If your buddy did not set that BIOS/clock up just right above DDR3 1600 you can expect all kinds of problems with stability and performanceThe problem is with you as someone who is not experienced with computers I do not know if I can successfully walk you through a complete check and setup of something like that. Its not a matter of "set this" and everything works.. there are tests involved which require tuning of GTL and SKEW during the tests and even if all those test show good, you can STILL see issues in 3D applications that require fine tuning.Case in point with DDR3 1800: http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/Ya...?num=1225569427In his case at first he was crashing in load tests but later after we went through it all, including a BIOS update for his board, the load tests completed without error but he still had FSX stability issues in which we had to then go through fine tuning of NB/CPU/MEM SKEW, CPU/NB GTL With 1st generation DDR3 a user needs to be very experienced to set up and run 2x2GB DDR3 1800+. There are some fortunate enough to plug-n-go however that is not usually the case and is why Tony at OCZ posted what he did. You are much better off using DDR3 1600 memory as it is much easier to deal with=====================================================SPEEDSTEP is not the only advanced CPU item that needs to be disabled to obtain a stable multiplier.. you need to disable CE1 as wellBe advised, to run DDR3 1800 it typically requires correct calculation and setting CPU VTT and CPU GTL voltage. There is a method to calculate those values 45nm CPUVtt x 0.667 + Y = Vtt x 0.63565nm CPUVtt x 0.667 = Vtt x 0.635 + YNOTE: If its a 45nm CPU the answer will always be a NEGATIVE value, POSITIVE for 65nm The NB voltage along with CPU GTL is very critical in running DDR3 1800 stable regardless of FSBIf your buddy did not set that BIOS up just right you can expect everything from crashes to slowdowns to corrupt software install and even a corrupt OSIf your case this is not going to be simplistic because it would appear you are not computer savvy. None the less with all the issues you have been reporting even after we may get things stable you need to realize you may need to wipe your hard drive clean and reinstall everything from scratch. The problem is, no matter what you do @ DDR3 1800 you will installing a OS and software OVERCLOCKED which is why this is so very problematical for an inexperienced user. Installing a system overclocked should never be done but in the case of running 1800 its the only way it can be done unless you DOWNCLOCK first and even that must be done right with 1800 modules!I am very tempted to to advise you to buy DDR3 1600 memory and remove the 1800 which to tell you the truth would probably be the best course of action.. then get you correctly set up and reinstalled

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Hi Nick, I am going to use this thread from now on to communicate on this issue !! Should make life easier for us both.Have I understood you right about the memory- If I am not running it at 18000 MHz, then it is pointless having it? Are you saying that as a product, that particular model is not really appropriate for my rig? RE upgrade I dont really want to change the mobo, so want to stick with LGA775 format, and max out the possibilities there (perhaps look at going i7 next year) but am quite happy to consider the following options meantime:Upgrading to either a Q9650 or E8600, both of which i have since discovered are much better overclockers than my chip. Changing my memory to whatever you recommend as best.Changing my hard drive set up - Perhaps raid controller card and additional raptors ( or solid state drives) - as I have masses of photoscenery, I want the best possible set up for that.So, if you look at things in the light of those three preferred options for me, it would be good. By the way, since completely removing drivers and the HDR mod and riva tuner and then reinstalling, I have not had the graphics corruption problem back, so at least a step in the right direction there. And if it means a groun up format and re install, I am game, I just want to get it right!At the moment, I have one 150gb raptor split into 3 partitions, (50GB each) one for vista 64, one for vista 32 and one as a simple drive. FSX and scenery is on the 300GB raptor.Here are my CPUz screens:cpu1.jpgcpu2.jpgcpu3.jpgcpu4.jpgAnd here is my .cfg file: 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X\GAUGES\Bell_206B.DLL.nnbaalzniltkkbkhlltuhtrzlbncwhhuwinbckbh=2[DynamicHeadMovement]LonAccelOnHeadLon=-0.020000LonAccelOnHeadPitch=-0.010000RollAccelOnHeadLat=0.010000YawAccelOnHeadLat=-0.100000RollAccelOnHeadRoll=0.100000MaxHeadAngle=5.000000MaxHeadOffset=0.300000HeadMoveTimeConstant=1.000000[VirtualCopilot]VirtualCopilotActive=0[uSERINTERFACE]ShowAllACPaintSchemes=0SelectAircraftManufacturer=AllSelectAircraftPublisher=AllSelectAircraftType=AllPageID=1OpenATCOnCreate=0SHOW_MISSION_CAPTIONS=0PAUSE_ON_LOST_FOCUS=1PROMPT_ON_EXIT=1SITUATION=c:\users\mark\documents\flight simulator x files\defaultmark.FLTMap_Orientation=2[ATC]ShowATCText=1COMM_MSG_NONE_COLOR=FFFFFFFFCOMM_MSG_ATC_USER_COLOR=FFB6FFB6COMM_MSG_USER_ATC_COLOR=FFFFD21BCOMM_MSG_ATC_AI_COLOR=FF00FF00COMM_MSG_AI_ATC_COLOR=FFFF7840AutoOpenAirTrafficWindow=1UsePilotVoice=1PilotVoice=0[PointOfInterestSystem]CycleSetting=0[sCENERY]LENSFLARE=1DAWN_DUSK_SMOOTHING=1IMAGE_COMPLEXITY=5[TrafficManager]AirlineDensity=35GADensity=33FreewayDensity=5ShipsAndFerriesDensity=40LeisureBoatsDensity=40IFROnly=0AIRPORT_SCENERY_DENSITY=3[TERRAIN]LOD_RADIUS=8.500000MESH_COMPLEXITY=30MESH_RESOLUTION=20TEXTURE_RESOLUTION=25AUTOGEN_DENSITY=0DETAIL_TEXTURE=0WATER_EFFECTS=4[AContain]ShowLabels=0ShowUserLabel=0ShowLabelManufacturer=1ShowLabelModel=1ShowLabelTailNumber=0ShowLabelDistance=1ShowLabelAltitude=1ShowLabelAirline=0ShowLabelAirlineAndFlightNumber=0ShowLabelFlightPlan=0ShowLabelContainerId=0ShowLabelAirspeed=0ShowLabelHeading=0LabelDelay=1000LabelColor=FFFF0000[iNTERNATIONAL]ASLAT=2ASLON=1MEASURE=0[REALISM]PFactor=0.890000Torque=0.880000GyroEffect=0.520000CrashTolerance=0.000000General=1.000000UnlimitedFuel=FalseAllowEngineDamage=FalseTrueAirspeed=FalseAutoCoord=FalseRealMixture=TrueStressDamage=FalseGEffect=FalseManualLights=TrueGyroDrift=TrueCrashWithDyn=FalseCrashDetection=FalseAutoTrim=False[sIM]SYSCLOCK=1[sTARTUP]DEMO=0SHOW_OPENING_SCREEN=1STARTUP_DEMO=LoadWindow=1[FACILITIES]COUNTRY=STATE=CITY=GTL_BUTTON=1244[Misc]Com_Rate=7[MULTIPLAYER]condAccoutPassword=0I am going to go into the bios and write down the various settings for you. Regarding those, following the advice given by you in another thread ( I cant find it offhand atm ) I turned off vanderpool, stepping and the other items in the advanced mmenu. Speak soon, thx, Mark

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Guest Nick_N

Im really not concerned with FSX at this point and much more with the hardwarebutWhat are you doing with a LOD RADIUS of 8.5?and no autogen?that FSX setup is way out of whackAnd is there a reason you are using 4096 for Texture Resolution?? If you do not need that support for addons like REX then DONT set thatPersonally I believe 4096 is not needed but to each his own on that. 4096 clouds are fine for screenshots but they will hammer a system down over a busy hub in overcast4096 and LOD 8.5 with a Bufferpool that was 490MB?? .. you are not on a CRAY Mark LOL!! :( Along with the other BIOS settings you post.. I need to know for sure

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Guest Nick_N

Here is a BIOS template for you..Fill in the blanks. If you see something in your BIOS not listed here, add it to the listIf you do not see something here in your BIOS, mark it NOT LISTEDExtreme Tweaker Ai Overclock Tuner : Manual CPU Ratio Control : - Ratio CMOS Setting : FSB Frequency : FSB Strap to North Bridge : PCI-E Frequency: DRAM Frequency: DRAM Command Rate : DRAM Timing Control: Manual /AUTO?CAS# Latency : RAS# to CAS# Delay : RAS# Precharge : RAS# ActivateTime : RAS# to RAS# Delay : Row Refresh Cycle Time : Write Recovery Time : Read to Precharge Time : Read to Write Delay (S/D) : Write to Read Delay (S) : Write to Read Delay (D) : Read to Read Delay (S) : Read to Read Delay (D) : Write to Write Delay (S) : Write to Write Delay (D) : DRAM Static Read Control: Ai Clock Twister : Transaction Booster : CPU Voltage : CPU PLL Voltage : North Bridge Voltage : DRAM Voltage : FSB Termination Voltage : South Bridge Voltage : Loadline Calibration : CPU GTL Reference : North Bridge GTL Reference : DDR2 Channel A REF Voltage : DDR2 Channel B REF Voltage : DDR2 Controller REF Voltage : SB 1.5V Voltage : CPU Spread Spectrum : Disabled PCIE Spread Spectrum : Disabled Advanced CPU Configuration CPU Ratio Control : Manual - Ratio CMOS Setting : C1E Suppport : Disabled CPU TM Function : Disabled Vanderpool Technology : Disabled Execute Disable Bit : Disabled Max CPUID Value Limit : Disabled

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Hi Nick, i confirm 4 sicks of 1GB. I do have 2 sticks of 2GB which I just got today, so can swap them in if you think i should. I remember, when we built the system, I got the extra 2 sticks of 1GB and we had real trouble installing them with the other 2. It worked eventually, but it took more than a few attempts. is there any mileage in using more than 4GB of ram, or is that plenty, as long as everything is all set up properly? (bear in mind the 200gb of photoscenery!!)Here are the settings from the BIOS:dram 1521primary info 8-8-8-27-4-60-10-5allsettings below that on autosecondary info 9-5-6-4-7-4-7all settuings below that on autodram voltage 1.96cpu ratio setting autocie,cpu tm, vanderpool, maxcpuid and execute disable , all disabled. Stepping enabled ( I turned it on again)memory re map enabledpeg port autopeg port x1 disabledplug and play O/S = noacpi 2 support disabledacpi apic enabledI used the lod radius setting to get my photoscenery nice and crisp, far away. Bear in mind I dont use the autogen at all, as I think it spoils the photscenery, i have other .cfg files that i swap in and out for flying without photoscenery, but really, I confine my flights to where I have photoscenery. Ok, meantime, i am conducting some flights so see how stable it is now...sorry, just noticed, i have cross posted!!!!

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Ai Overclock Tuner : Manual overclock from memory level up; autoCPU Ratio Control : auto- Ratio CMOS Setting : could not see this entryFSB Frequency : 380FSB Strap to North Bridge : autoPCI-E Frequency: 100DRAM Frequency: ddr3 1521MHzDRAM Command Rate : autoDRAM Timing Control: Manual CAS# Latency : 8RAS# to CAS# Delay : 8RAS# Precharge : 8RAS# ActivateTime : 27RAS# to RAS# Delay : autoRow Refresh Cycle Time : autoWrite Recovery Time : autoRead to Precharge Time : autoRead to Write Delay (S/D) : autoWrite to Read Delay (S) : autoWrite to Read Delay (D) : autoRead to Read Delay (S) : autoRead to Read Delay (D) : autoWrite to Write Delay (S) : autoWrite to Write Delay (D) : autoDRAM Static Read Control: autoAi Clock Twister : autoAi clock skew for channel A: autoAi clock skew for channel B: autoTransaction Booster : autoCPU Voltage : autoCPU PLL Voltage : autoNorth Bridge Voltage : autoDRAM Voltage : 1.96FSB Termination Voltage : autoSouth Bridge Voltage : autoLoadline Calibration : autoCPU GTL Reference : autoNorth Bridge GTL Reference : autoDDR2 Channel A REF Voltage : autoDDR2 Channel B REF Voltage : autoDDR2 Controller REF Voltage : autoSB 1.5V Voltage : autoCPU Spread Spectrum : autoPCIE Spread Spectrum : autoAdvanced CPU Configuration CPU Ratio Control : auto - Ratio CMOS Setting : not shown ( presumably because set to auto?) C1E Suppport : Disabled CPU TM Function : Disabled Vanderpool Technology : Disabled Execute Disable Bit : Disabled Max CPUID Value Limit : Disabledintel speedstep: enabled Hope that helps!! ? I use the 4096 textures for the pretty clouds in REX. I am happy to swap some FPS for eye candy..... up to a point!!!Cheers, Mark

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Guest UlfB
CPU Ratio Control : autointel speedstep: enabled
Mark,Overclocking and having speedstep enabled and CPU Ratio on auto tells me that your "expert" friend nows very little about overclocking. He may have built many computers, but still nows very little about overclocking. Stop listen to your friend regarding your computer. Continue listen to Nick. That's the best advice I can give you.Edited: And when you have your pc tweaked and stable, you might learn your friend how to overclock computers :(

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Guest Nick_N

Ok Mark.. Can you give me the exact numbers on the 2x2GB sticks.. I assume this is a kit at least I hope it is a matched set kitpost a link to them if you would so I can ID them exactlyMake sure what you post is correctI would prefer you be on 2x2GB than 4x1GB even if they are 1800 but I do not want you doing anything as of yet. So for now I will check back later but I will not have info for you today. I need to pull my notes on the Maximus Extreme and go back over them before making suggestions and that may take me a day or so Yes, your friend may be MS certified for Windows or MS software but that is not a license to set up and clock hardware. MS does not have a cert or course to pass in hardware/BIOS engineering and overclocking

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Hi Nick, this is the link to the memory i just got: http://www.memoryc.com/computermemory/ddr2...latinumkit.htmlThe sticks are at work, so will have to look onthe side tomorrow and let you know. Hopefully you can get the info you need from the above, but if not, I will post tomorrow am. Thx a bunch for this Nick. "You da man as they say!!!!BTW, just did a one hour flight, stable , no crashes, BUT, pretty bad frame rates and slow texture loading. This is as you have the specs now.....

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Guest Nick_N

You are going to have to realize that more that likely you have a corrupt install of possibly the OS or FSX or both. My problem with all this is you have an unstable system that has been run that way and probably had software installed that way. Even if we get you set up correctly we could be fighting corruption problemsSo what I may end up doing if after I post some nembers to work with you are still having problems is suggesting we get you set up right in the BIOS with no clocking on the memory and CPU you are running... wipe it all out and start with a clean install of Vista64 and all service packs/updates with drivers and then properly install FSX/Acceleration correctly. After that we know if a addon is giving us grief Massive installs also require more than one hard drive. And, the right defrag solution must be applied well in advance of testing any addon in the sim.If we go that route we are not going to be installing photo scenery. We get our system installed DEFAULT first, check for stability in clocking and set up FSX CORRECTLY without photo scenery addonsOnce we have a stable install that performs you can then proceed to installing photo scenery and other addons of that nature but not until everything else is confirmed. I don

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Guest Nick_N

Mark.. I just got an email from my contact at OCZI dont think you should be running DDR3 1800 memory and neither do they. The Maximus Extreme was built very poorly. The Asus P5E3 Premium was designed with twice the ability of the Maximus (marketing names are just that.. silly names) in terms of 3 phase DRAM voltage supply and 2 phase NB voltage which is where the stability comes fromI am going to suggest you swap the 2x2GB memory you have with these: http://www.memoryc.com/computermemory/ddr3...inumebdual.html We will probably never get you to 1800 or anywhere near it on that board. What you have now will run you on higher timing which also slows you down. I need to confirm what I was told from my notes but I do remember that board was a dog at anything above 1600. If you do not have a clocking heatsink installed you would never be able to run 1800 it no matter what motherboard you have.EDIT: This memory the Mushkin 996625 is probably the best on the market for 1st generation DDR3http://www.mushkin.com/doc/products/memory_detail.asp?id=669that stuff will run 1T at 1600 CAS 7-6-7

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Hi Nick, that all sounds very sensible, although obviously it would be good to see if we can get it stable first before starting again, but like i said, if thats what it takes.. BTW, the idea behind the memory chosen was that even though he was not going to be using it at 1800 mhz, he (my buddy) said that it would give me potential for in the future if I got a different chip and wanted to clock it higher, as lower memeory speed would bottleneck the overclock. I am running the system watercooled, GPU aircooled ( it goes to 90 degrees on full load, but I think that is ok for that card, yes? ) CPU temps never go over 50 under full load. If we are going to go down the road of starting again, as my chip is a poor overclocker (now, I may be wrong here, but I read in custm PC, that they could not get my chip to clock stably over 3.2 GHz, whereas the 9650 would take 3.9 no problem) would it not be better to swap in the better chip, then get it set up? I dont want to get it all set up ok, and then have to go through it all again, neither do you I suspect!!! The other chip I was looking at as a demon overclocker was the E8600.BTW, is there anything immediately obviously wrong in the BIOs results I posted? EDIT: just saw your second suggestion for the mushkin, but could immediately find any sellers here in the uk. Would your first suggestion, the OCZ be acceptable, as I can easily swap as it was from the same retailer....thx, Mark

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