What's the procedure for a reduced noise approach in the MD11. I know how to do so on the B744, but not he MD11.Thanks,Tim

What's the procedure for a reduced noise approach in the MD11. I know how to do so on the B744, but not he MD11.Thanks,Tim

Do you mean like a CDA?

What's the procedure for a reduced noise approach in the MD11. I know how to do so on the B744, but not he MD11.Thanks,Tim

Tim,After normal LOC intercept:Just before GS intercept, Select Flaps28 / Gear Down.Not later then 1200 ft HAA, Select Landing Flaps and set FAS.Regards,Harry

Cool, I didn't know that. Thanks, Harry.

Ahh...The low drag approach. IMHO it demonstrates a fair mastery of the airplane. I haven't tried it in the MD, but now I'm itching to do it. I'm hoping my Boeing technique will work:Stay clean for as long as possible, so that when the GS comes alive, you can select Flap 20. At 1800ft, select Vapp, extend the gear and select landing flaps. That way, the autoland will be armed as you pass 1500ft.Paul

Ahh...The low drag approach. IMHO it demonstrates a fair mastery of the airplane. I haven't tried it in the MD, but now I'm itching to do it. I'm hoping my Boeing technique will work:Stay clean for as long as possible, so that when the GS comes alive, you can select Flap 20. At 1800ft, select Vapp, extend the gear and select landing flaps. That way, the autoland will be armed as you pass 1500ft.Paul

Thanks for sharing, I'll try that for the B744 :( !

Thanks for sharing, I'll try that for the B744 :( !

Only issue I see in the MD11 is that it's such a hot ship. Not really good at bleeding speed without the spoilers :) Slam dunks are a royal pain even with the gear out at VLE and spoilers as slow as I can get before adding flaps- remember, no spoilers with flaps (slats are OK).

I really wish the MD didn't have that limitation. It really does cripple the descent performance relative to other types. If you really need to get down, and you're a good way from the airport, the only thing you can do is extend the gear- which is poor form IMO.Paul

I really wish the MD didn't have that limitation. It really does cripple the descent performance relative to other types. If you really need to get down, and you're a good way from the airport, the only thing you can do is extend the gear- which is poor form IMO.Paul

Yep and noisy- which inherently flies against the concept of 'low noise' approach.The MD11 is a great airplane, but the limitations are severe IMHO. That and the 777 are the reasons why there were so few built. Admittedly I like Boeing logic better on the flight deck.Tim

Only issue I see in the MD11 is that it's such a hot ship. Not really good at bleeding speed without the spoilers :) Slam dunks are a royal pain even with the gear out at VLE and spoilers as slow as I can get before adding flaps- remember, no spoilers with flaps (slats are OK).

While the MD11 is certainly a slippery beast when it comes to getting down in a hurry, it's manageable. The key thing to remember is that basically you can't 'go down and slow down' all at once. Rightly or wrongly, the way I do it is as follows.As soon as you know you have a steep descent requirement:- Level off or at least slow your rate of descent- Get the airspeed down to below VLE. Use spoilers if you're in a hurry - Once the speed is below VLE extend full spoilers and set an initial rate of descent- Use the cues on the ND and/or the descent perf page to stabilise a rate of descent that gets you down where you want to be in the vertical sense. - If at this stage your airspeed is still climbing, drop the gear and adjust your rate of descent til the airspeed is holding constant just shy of VLE. That is as good as the airplane will perform in the circumstances.If all this is STILL not enough, consider making an orbit or entering a holding pattern by arrangement with ATC to take some time to lose some airspeed. In saying that, I can't think of any scenario I've encountered where this technique failed me.If you're flying online and experience has shown that you might get a late descent clearance into this particular airport, factor that into your mental preparation. Also if you can't comply with an ATC request, say so, they should endeavour to provide you with some airspace to enter a holding pattern.

I agree with Mark, slowing her down is the key to dropping out of the sky. I notice that the FMS is aware of this where she starts the ZIGGY arrival at KONT over HEC VOR already slowed down to about 220-230 KIAS (I don't remember which) before the descent and she comes down on the numbers (i.e., altitude constraints).

Yep and noisy- which inherently flies against the concept of 'low noise' approach.The MD11 is a great airplane, but the limitations are severe IMHO. That and the 777 are the reasons why there were so few built. Admittedly I like Boeing logic better on the flight deck.

Tim,Speedbrakes are not the solution for everything. If you think the MD-11 has "severe" limitations regarding descent you might want to try an Airbus A330-200, now THAT airplane is hard to get down even though you're allowed to use speedbrakes together with flaps.Every aircraft is different, all have some sort of limitations for their operation. Pilots are aware of this and so is ATC (usually) so everybody can arrange for these. There are no "severe limitations" on the MD-11 as you call it and those operational limitations that are there certainly weren't the reason why production was cut off early.Flying a "heavy" and one as fast as the MD-11 certainly isn't the easiest regarding energy management but it IS manageable.Regards,Markus

Tim,Speedbrakes are not the solution for everything. If you think the MD-11 has "severe" limitations regarding descent you might want to try an Airbus A330-200, now THAT airplane is hard to get down even though you're allowed to use speedbrakes together with flaps.Every aircraft is different, all have some sort of limitations for their operation. Pilots are aware of this and so is ATC (usually) so everybody can arrange for these. There are no "severe limitations" on the MD-11 as you call it and those operational limitations that are there certainly weren't the reason why production was cut off early.Flying a "heavy" and one as fast as the MD-11 certainly isn't the easiest regarding energy management but it IS manageable.Regards,Markus

Severe is a relative term- every modern jet is slippery and just will not slow down/go down. Much of the efficiency of modern jets is in those slick aerodynamics.Like we've discussed here many times, it's about having a descent plan- and sticking to it as much as possible even if it involves a hold. The severity of the limitations on the MD11 is that it is unforgiving in a modern context. Don't get out of CG or you will get hurt kinda stuff. Not a lot of wiggle room outside the envelope.It's not like the 727 where if you can see it, you can land on it, then again the MD11 is not the first jet that one flies either so you're well prepared for it's quirks.That being said, I really enjoy the jet and it's challenges. It s not the same as ATC having you keep the speed up (in a 172) for the arriving MD80 a few miles behind. Done that a few too many times, and I've seen the go arounds for the MD80 when ATC cuts it too close. At least the 172 has that big prop there to bleed speed if you need it.Hottest Ship I've ever flown is a Mooney 201. The MD11 is the hottest airliner I've ever simmed.Tim