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Cactus521

Dumb little complaints about FSCF

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I am sick of all these little complaints! consider these Points!Is MS Flight simulator the best personal Flight simulator you can get? ( Other then a real full motion simulator ) YES!Does any other personal Flight simulator for your PC even come close? NODo you get hundreds if not thousands of fun hours? Yes. This hobby takes up about 15 - 20hrs of my time each week! And I love it!!If so its a very small price to pay! $50 for 2 years of unlimited fun! Go to a movie and dinner and it cost you that in one night!!Sure each new release of Flight Sim only adds a little more on the last! Look back just a few years at the start of FS. This hobby has come a long way! Just think what FS2020 will look like!!!The MS team do a wonderful job with Flight Sim. If MS don't release Flight Sim every 24 months it will not make them any money! Then they will stop creating new versions! Some of you really need to wake up! If your not happy with FSCF then don't buy it!! What is a $50 investment for 2 years on a hobby you love? Not much!! $2 a month? Big deal! most other hobbies cost a lot more!Pete

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Well said! :)Funny how those who haven't even tried the sim can moan and groan about it :-roll

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You're right, Pete ... but don't get too "puffed up" about it.My best friend complains about everything HE is doing, too ... amazing human behavior, huh? I think I am guilty of this sometimes, too.I will wager (friendly, of course) that those complaining were 1). not around in the FS-3 days; and 2). not real-world pilots.I say the second one because people who are real-world flyers know the difference in a flying sim and HAVING to control and land a bird. My expectations, when I sit down at my desktop and fire-up FS2K2 are always exceeded.

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So what, I don't care that FS is the best personal simulator that we have. We can still moan and groan about what it lacks, it's flaws. I sure will. Albiet, it is kinda silly when we don't have the sim to know about its flaws, which is something I haven't yet done :) $50 for two years of fun? Well yes. But the issue here is what are we getting for $50. I will be honest, I think it is worth it, but some people don't. Get over it. Don't read there threads indicating dis-satisfaction about what they believe FSCOF to be.

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For the record, the first version of FS I bought was Sublogic's for the Apple ][ in 1982 or so.Like Fred said above, if you don't like (negative) criticism, don't read it.The cost, or time spent using the software, is irrelevant. Flaws are flaws; strengths are strengths. There's no need to pretend the product is perfect.Also, $2 a month isn't exactly accurate - unless you just bought the software and no hardware to run it on / control it with. ;)Fact is, constructive criticism is the best criticism, and >negative< constructive criticism (rather than, "FS Sucks!) is valuable in pretty much all aspects of everything.Necessity is the mother of invention...Andrew

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I was around in the FS 4 or 5. Heck it was so long ago I don't remember what the first FS game I used was. I am also a real world pilot. All I know is that I think FSCF will be another great success for MS. I do not plan to go out and get it right away because I am still having way too much fun with FS2002! However, the delivery date is still a ways off, so who knows between now and then what my feelings for it will be. Buying the game is a small price to pay for the years of enjoyment it will bring. It is all the payware that has added up for me....Anyway, it is everyones right to complain, I just think that there are more important things to complain about. Life is too short....

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Hi, -The most easy thing to do in real life, is to judge/bash one person without know him and saw it.-The most easy thing to do, take final conclusion without saw it and try it at full potential.-Responding only from screenshot and few information, specialy when the screenshots are poor created with an "historical computer system" make no sens at all, but they always forget what the new engine provide and the capability, it's because of each new engine, the add-ons looks better and more realistic than all previous add-ons released, I saw more MAJOR change in each Msfs release than most of all 3rd add-ons. 3rd party add-ons can only take advantage of the new engine. -If we never change the Msfs engine, 3rd party add-ons WILL remain basic and outdated.I am working on company that's want Inovation and new realistic Implemented feature direct from the computer market technologie available like all others company, but I can't because my name is ........No matter what I do, I show or explain to......., he will bash me about the product and performance on his......computer. He always forget what's I have done on his previous software before. He want all new feature implemented to run on his ....... computer like before with all previous and exact data and compatibility (they do care more about fs98 *.r8 files than Inovation). All my life I will never able to implement faster new feature now, but only wait for.........computer upgrade and fs98 *.r8 files and worries about old commercial addons, he will still bash me no matter what's new feature will be implemented for future, because he don't want to change his attitude, inovate, understand, be logical,learn new tools and after all this, he still compare apple and candy products without understand how it's works,created, and even saw it.At the end, he don't care to spend 500$ somewhere else it's ok for him. -You will have to deal with all type of people here. You can see by each post and classify them by their class without knowing the real person. Adult, Bs, or children, high, mid, low class. You will find ALL your anwser.ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

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Each version of the sim may not be a groundbreaking achievement, but they do take many steps towards the goal of ultimate realism.For example, reflective aircraft bodies. We went without in FS2002. Now, I get kinda bummed when an aircraft I fly doesn't have dynamic shine. Opening doors are really an insignificant part of the sim, but I love throwing them open at the end of a long flight. It used to be that the only way to get other traffic was to buy third party software. I went without, and my airports were lonely strips of concrete that reminded me of a post-apocolyptic world where no one exists. Now, the tarmacs are crammed with aircraft from all over the world (thanks to the AI Traffic Group, of course). Even the smoke that comes from the tires upon landing amazes me every time.The point is, while the sim may not be a huge leap forward, the small steps and improvements each version make advance us towards the realism (or should I say, Realsim) goal. Personally, I'm glad Microsoft is continuing development of this game, and I'll be one of the first in line at the store to get my copy!

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Mikehaska, "make advance us towards the realismI have read on tons of post, the scenery was the force from Ms from many user, now they have added from the most demanded feature by user, the new weather engine, we can have both at the same time finally. If you can't have realistic visual/capability on weather/environment, any weather engine or program is useless, fs2002 can't achieve realistic visual weather/sky environment at all.If a 3rd party addons was available in fs2002 that's make volumetric clouds and dynamic sky system etc, they will paid 40$ only for this :-lol ThanksChris Willis[link:fsw.simflight.com/FSWMenuFsSim.html]Clouds And Addons For MsFs

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Pete, Some users of X-Plane and Fly! may not agree with your first few points! I agree, FS2002 is a superb flight simulator and I believe FS2004 will be even better. But I disagree with your points about criticism. I think criticism - provided of course it is constructive and not destructive - is not only desirable but essential. What would be the point of beta testers if they could not list their criticisms? That's how things get better. Come to think of it, if there were no criticism these forums would get pretty boring. This very post I'm writing is a (good-natured!) criticism of your criticism of criticism - if you see what I mean! Best regards, Chris Wright

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>If a 3rd party addons was available in fs2002 that's make>volumetric clouds and dynamic sky system etc, they will paid>40$ only for this :-lolI second that!!!!!

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>Pete,> Some users of X-Plane and Fly! may not agree with your first>few points!>> I agree, FS2002 is a superb flight simulator and I believe>FS2004 will be even better.>> But I disagree with your points about criticism. I think>criticism - provided of course it is constructive and not>destructive - is not only desirable but essential. What would>be the point of beta testers if they could not list their>criticisms? That's how things get better.>> Come to think of it, if there were no criticism these forums>would get pretty boring. This very post I'm writing is a>(good-natured!) criticism of your criticism of criticism - if>you see what I mean!>> Best regards,> Chris WrightI disagree with your point about beta testers. Their role should purely be to de-bug the code and test functionality by play testing the simulation in a logical and efficient manner. I expect that improvements made to the sim are the result of decisions made by the team at MS but that these decisions are also influenced by customer comments. I would be surprised if MS took any notice of any suggestions for improvements or criticisms made by beta testers unless they were directly related to actual bugs in the program code.

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criticism is good! I agree. But wait until the product has been released before passing judgement!Pete

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>I am sick of all these little complaints! >consider these Points!Masybe you care to give us examples of those little complaints.I think you ought to do something and cure your sickness ... :-badteeth Michael J.

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>Some of you really need to wake up!>PeteMy friend that's EXACTLY how I feel about you after reading this very predictable thread that you've felt the need to start. And that's exactly how I feel about the many others who agree with you, and constantly act as if a close loved one has been publicly attacked whenever people attempt to offer constructive criticism of FS. It's not your relative, it's simply a commercial product that many of us have specific ideas and observations about. We want a better flight sim--and until it basically reflects reality we always will--and we feel we have certain ideas that might actually help it along the way.If you went to hear an orchestra and took a musician friend along, do you think the musician, while appreciating the concert, might offer more detailed thoughts about the nuances of the performance and what he enjoyed, along with thoughts about was lacking? I'm sure it would be the case, and there's no difference when it comes to MSFS.Frankly much of what I write here is simply my way of trying to communicate with the Microsoft programmers, because direct interaction isn't possible or even feasible. I think many others will understand the observations, and add more and tell me about things I haven't thought of, and that can lead to a constructive dialog--but there are also many who simply can't see what you're trying to say, and they misunderstand, and become offended, and try to put down and label people who have the temerity to offer critiques and suggest improvements...and so it goes. Ad infinitum. Most of the time I try to ignore them; sometimes I take the time to type out a response like this.But by hook or by crook, the simulator still gets better, and hopefully there are people here who have something to do with that.

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Interesting thoughts Pete, some of which I agree with, and others I don'tBashing for the sake of bashing is just plain dumb.... If you want to see much worse--go to the Sony minidisc forums. They are unmoderated, and trolled to death.However, anything that can be caught before a product gets to market is good--better now, vs. once it's in the hands of half a million consumers. From screenshots, I can't find any flaws--maybe I'm not looking hard enough.But I do grow more concerned, when no mention is made of what, if anything, has been done to fix multiplayer. Microsoft is making us pay for a patch for that piece of FS--if they intend to fix it. I won't purchase FS2004 if it isn't, just out of protest.Sometimes I see posts like this as opportunity to bash those who aren't on the FS "Glee Club". Heck--even take a neutral approach, and someone's going to attack your attitude. All I see now are a bunch of shots--nothing indicative of what FS2004 may be. But the one video I did see did become a slide show at times when the fantastic weather engine was displayed. What does that mean for low end users? How does that effect the kids who see "400MHZ and up", only to throw the program in the garbage with a rather disillusioned impression of the simming hobby?Admit it or not, many of the things that make FS2002 so great came from nagging, constant nagging, over issues that came in FS2000 and versions prior. Are these the greatest sims going? No doubt. Are there bashers who are just here to whine? No doubt. But there are also bashers who are here to look like part of the crowd, or who won't share any observation about the coming sim, because of "peer" pressure. And I doubt such people scarcely remember how FS evolved to the point it has. It wasn't just Microsoft's doing. We've beta tested every new release MS has done in the form of our passion for whatever is currently on the shelf. I think both sides have done a good job, but to stop at making it better because someone calls it "whining"?--pretty sad.

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Hi, "criticism is good! I agree. But wait until the product has been released before passing judgement!"This should always be like this.. for any conclusion on any product.Cheers!Chris

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I don't care about all those who choose to bash FSCF before it's been released. Chances are I'm buying it no matter what anyone says. I've been simming since SubLogic FS 1.0 and nothing is stopping me now. =)So whine & moan all you want. It's the same thing every 2 years!EricFlying Tigers Groupwww.virtualATP.org

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You make a key point Eric--before COF's release, all we can do is assume. No one should diss the product until it's out, and we hear real feedback from trusted members here. Having said that, even Tom A. noted the clouds caused a hit on performance. But sometimes a slight slider adjustment still gives the realism, without the penalty. That's very true of Autogen, as an example.I saw a screenshot today that was just outstanding....can't describe how real it looked. The fps counter in the shot showed 20fps, and it was decked out with a lot of clouds. To me, I'd see that as encouraging. Because the best systems aren't even in wide circulation yet, and won't be until later in the year.I think if you've been like me, and stalled on an upgrade, COF will be the perfect chance to get exactly what you want. I'm fairly sure with a $500 budget, I'll be able to have a decent system for running what I see.... Moreover, I may be able to plug it in an ancient system first--see where the bottlenecks are, and buy a better solution...Still, I hope we don't go into a routine where the "Glee Club" jumps all over someone for raising a legitimate issue, like the recent ground handling discussion, or something as minor as the missing PEI in FS2002. That routine is also repeated every two years, and in part, I believe it's motivated by certain Glee Club members' beliefs that they'll be picked for the next beta....

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