The last time I heard something like this was when it was found out the poster worked for Ariane. Your low post count shows you don't post that much here so this is a little suspicious. I don't want to accuse you but even your user name suspiciously calls back to someone that was trying to do this before. I'm familiar with a guy who goes by the name of Bobo that works for Ariane, not sure if this is you. Anyway all of what you wrote above is false 10 times over.

Hey, don't worry, i'm not one of them. That was just my opinion. A matter of fact, i don't even fly on Ariane or PMDG. But got both of them. I use PSS 757.And for the name, thats my real one. I'm from Serbia, and my real name is Dalibor, age 35...and so on.That was only my opinion, nothing else. :(

Hey, don't worry, i'm not one of them. That was just my opinion. A matter of fact, i don't even fly on Ariane or PMDG. But got both of them. I use PSS 757.And for the name, thats my real one. I'm from Serbia, and my real name is Dalibor, age 35...and so on.That was only my opinion, nothing else. But im still thinkikg that PMDG VC is...funny, or something. Its NOT even close to 737!!! :(

What interests me most in this discussion, though, is the fact that some people are completely anti-Ariane, some are pro-Ariane, but just a few are in between. It just leaves me wondering: both parties claim to have had actual pilots for the beta testing... So, does one party have bad pilots? Have they no idea what they are talking about? It confuses me and saddens me every time I see it happen. All my dealings with Ariane have been very pleasant ones, and I don't see the problems people apparently had with them. How have they been for you?

Interesting question... What's sad is in the real world is many pilots especially old school airline pilots don't use and/or aren't familiar with Flight Simulator in general. Yes they've heard about it but most don't really know too much about it. It's sad on a few levels but more so because many mishaps like Northwest landing at an airforce base rather than landing at KSLC wouldn't have happened. As a real pilot myself I find FS a valuable tool not only for training but also location familiarization. All that being said you don't have the same group of real world pilot testers testing various add-ons in FS so there's no comparisons or standards going on. Every development house has it's own real world pilot contacts. Some of these pilots may not want to hurt the developers feelings, aren't familiar with FS to begin with, or have no FS add-on comparisons to base their feedback as I've already stated. In order to be an effective beta tester you need real world and FS experience to really nail down the warts in an add-on. Concerning the Ariane VC graphics versus the PMDG offering is an issue an unassuming pilot would not even comment on. Let's face it Ariane's model looks like the NG so if I was a pilot I wouldn't see a problem. It's not until you see an add-on like PMDG do you see a difference. Granted I had to hard code a better eyepoint in the VC to center my position in the seat and raise my head a bit. See back in the days of the widely used 2D panels we had forward panels sitting directly in our face. In the real world when you sit in a plane looking forward your looking out the window. The main panel is not in your line of sight nor should it be. It sites below you and you have to look down at it. The instruments are only used for quick reference and/or monitoring the various systems of the plane. A pilot's attention is outside the aircraft... So in the PMDG bird you find the panel sits below your field of vision and has the right proportions when your sitting in the seat. The Ariane model is 3 times fatter than the real world bird. In other words the hight of the forward panel from the bottom base to the top of the autopilot panel is 2 to 3 times longer in the Ariane model than it should be. When you sit in the real bird looking forward with the seat adjusted (and even if it's not) the forward panel will come up to about your lower neck if that. In order to get what Ariane has produced you would have to take the seats out the cockpit and sit on the floor. The forward panel is not that big in the real bird. One the flip side the seats in the PMDG bird are way too small. So at the end of the day we're talking about artist renditions here. Would a real world pilot comment on that, I think not unless he was an FS enthusiast. Flight dynamics are the same thing. Are the developers testing with joysticks or yoke/peddles? All a real world pilot would really focus on is the accuracy of the Avionics and are all the switches properly placed in the VC. They may get into fuel burn and external specifications but the main points are do all the features function as they do in the real world. Ariane and PMDG fit the bill and are more than competent in those areas. So the beta testings pilots aren't bad or forgetful by any means they did their jobs. The Feelthere classic 737 is less accurate than both Ariane and PMDG combined in the VC, it's actually horrible. What sets that aircraft apart and why it's so well received is because we got everything else right (I was on that beta team). The FDE, Avionics, and visual model outside the VC was pretty darn good. Yes you can make the argument external model seems a bit fat but overall it looks great. In the cockpit everything functions as it should and the plane flies on the numbers (the engines could have used more power but the numbers were properly reflective in the aircraft.cfg file). Like I said what kills the Ariane model in my book is the gauges I can deal with everything else. All of us can adjust the FDE, we can deal with most shortcomings of add-ons but when instruments drag and/or the FDE is lacking that kills a project. Pilots tested the Feelthere 737 and by contrast the E-Jet series is all but flawless both inside and out.Bottom line is pilots have specific things they test and unless the development team is pilot's themselves like PMDG and Level-D their not going to be too nit picky on the details plus there's no need to damage their friendships with the developers over a senseless game (unfortunately)... :(

That all sound rather logical, but I keep bumping into what you say about the VC. I apparently don't see what you are seeing, because for me it looks perfectly fine. The height to me seems spot on when comparing to the real thing. I honestly think the PMDG VC is worse than the Ariane, with the insanely short and thick control yokes, the complete flatness of the panels... The Ariane simply seems more genuine to my eyes. The only thing the ariane really misses, is that shadow that the MCP panel casts upon the lower parts of the main panel, that give it that distinct look, and that's what the PMDG VC does have. But, in all honesty, the height, to me, of thw Ariane's panel is the same as that of the PMDG, and both are alike the real thing.Som again, I'm seeing somethign different than you it seems, because for me the Ariane really does look like the real thing. I know, I'm probably just being stubborn with you actually piloting this bird and I not, but it's honestly what I'm seeing. I rwally don't notice any problems in the Ariane VC...Concerning the Wilco VC, I don't think that one's so bad, is it? Sure, it's all rather flat, but I really like the wethered look of it, the "oldness" so to speak. I should fly the Wilco more often, but I'm currently busy with the LDS767. Now that's a plane that flies great!

I'm probably just being stubborn with you actually piloting this bird and I not, but it's honestly what I'm seeing. I rwally don't notice any problems in the Ariane VC...Concerning the Wilco VC, I don't think that one's so bad, is it? Sure, it's all rather flat, but I really like the wethered look of it, the "oldness" so to speak. I should fly the Wilco more often, but I'm currently busy with the LDS767. Now that's a plane that flies great!

I've only sat in the cockpit of the real bird not flown it and I do agree about the yoke in the PMDG bird. Like I've tried to say both designs have their pluses and minuses but to me Ariane has more of them on the minus side. Concerning the Wilco VC, I flew a united 737-300 to Denver from KMSP a little while back and like I spoke of before there's really no difference in the newer cockpits versus the old with the exception of the big glass displays. Depending on the airline most cockpits are kept in pretty good condition (there is no real weathered look). Sitting in the -300's cockpit reminded me of the NG minus all the glass panels. Imagine the exact Ariane/PMDG main panel with classic conventional gauges. That's what -300 series aircraft look like in the fleet for the most part. Wilco's VC most likely fits in with some third world airline in South America. It would have been better as a -200 series design. Overall I think the Wilco bird is acceptable and functions outstandingly well but artist have different perspectives on their work and I happen to like PMDG's style more than others. When you look at their 744's cockpit there's no denying the exactness of what your seeing to the real world counterpart. Something about the MD11 leaves me cold as SkySimulations (who's bringing us the DC9) has better dimensions in the VC than PMDG's offering. Now outside of that PMDG's MD11 hands down in every other area is outstanding but the artist rendition of the cockpit is lacking in my book. The same argument can be raised with Captainsim's 757/767 VC compared to Level-D's. CaptainSim hand's down is more accurate visually where as Level-D's is not quite on Captainsim's level. We all know system wise which add-on is better but visually Captainsim wins on every design they've put fourth (especially the 707)... Not sure how the NGX is going to look but if the same artist that did work on the first NG and the 744 is involved I know it's going to be outstanding. I'd like to draw one more example and that's with Posky's 777. That VC is outstanding but lacking the system simulation needed as it's freeware. There may come a time like Lou has done and that's draw on these few artist that have a great eye and have them design for many of the major development houses. I don't want to mention any names here but we have a few very talented artist among us. I'd love to see the Wilco -300 VC redone but that's a long shot. Imagine that add-on with a VC on the level of PMDG's 744. I believe the guy that did the Posky 777 is the very same one that did the CLS 742 VC, another great example. So I'll end this on that note before I get too long winded here. Ariane missed some things and PMDG got allot right, you have to sit in the real bird to know what I'm talking about pictures don't cut it.... :(