As I indicated in a post a couple of weeks ago, the controllers at JFK Tower usually have senses of humor. Well, what I heard just now floored me ...A controller just sent best wishes to a pair of newlyweds who are on an outbound flight, apparently friends of his. He did this in the course of issuing the takeoff clearance. He had to spell the last name of the couple phonetically for the flight crew, who had earlier asked twice that it be repeated in the clear. The whole exchange took about a minute, during which time the aircraft continued to hold at the end of the runway. It wasn't exactly humorous but it certainly got my attention.I've heard this controller many times before. He can be very amusing.

Haha. Depending on your perspective (namely passengers on holding aircraft), it could also be considered a cruel joke :(

It may also be considered misuse of the radio airwaves by the FAA, if they get a complaint on the incident.

It may also be considered misuse of the radio airwaves by the FAA, if they get a complaint on the incident.

Who would complain? All the aircraft in line to take off (two as I recall) will have had landing slots at their destinations, and flight crews often think nothing of leaving their engines running when temporarily diverted to the ground holding area known as the "penalty box". (Sometimes the tower has to remind them that shutting down would be appropriate.) This incident took place at about 10pm eastern during a lull. Nobody was delayed, nobody was inconvenienced, and there was no safety issue.Shall we now start reporting the controllers for making humorous comments? If so, what about the PNFs who make humorous announcements to the tower that they're on final for thus-and-such runway? Or who make joking comments about the little airplanes in front of them that might get run over? Or the little airplanes behind them that might get blown off the taxiways by jet blast? What about the airline pilot I heard asking when the Thunderbirds would be flying three days out during the Fourth of July holiday weekend?Give me a break. I'll bet you don't have a pilot's license. Am I right?

I remember the audio of a JFK tin-pusher getting rather irritated at a foreign pilot trying to understand which taxiway to take and what place he was in for take-off...ain't language barriers amazing?

Who would complain? All the aircraft in line to take off (two as I recall) will have had landing slots at their destinations, and flight crews often think nothing of leaving their engines running when temporarily diverted to the ground holding area known as the "penalty box". (Sometimes the tower has to remind them that shutting down would be appropriate.) This incident took place at about 10pm eastern during a lull. Nobody was delayed, nobody was inconvenienced, and there was no safety issue.Shall we now start reporting the controllers for making humorous comments? If so, what about the PNFs who make humorous announcements to the tower that they're on final for thus-and-such runway? Or who make joking comments about the little airplanes in front of them that might get run over? Or the little airplanes behind them that might get blown off the taxiways by jet blast? What about the airline pilot I heard asking when the Thunderbirds would be flying three days out during the Fourth of July holiday weekend?Give me a break. I'll bet you don't have a pilot's license. Am I right?

I do know the FAA frowns on any distractions in critical stages of flight, ground operations included. It's called the Sterile Cockpit RuleThe following is the actual text from U.S. FAR 121.542/135.100, "Flight Crewmember Duties":[5] 1. No certificate holder shall require, nor may any flight crewmember perform, any duties during a critical phase of flight except those duties required for the safe operation of the aircraft. Duties such as company required calls made for such nonsafety related purposes as ordering galley supplies and confirming passenger connections, announcements made to passengers promoting the air carrier or pointing out sights of interest, and filling out company payroll and related records are not required for the safe operation of the aircraft. 2. No flight crewmember may engage in, nor may any pilot in command permit, any activity during a critical phase of flight which could distract any flight crewmember from the performance of his or her duties or which could interfere in any way with the proper conduct of those duties. Activities such as eating meals, engaging in nonessential conversations within the cockpit and nonessential communications between the cabin and cockpit crews, and reading publications not related to the proper conduct of the flight are not required for the safe operation of the aircraft. 3. For the purposes of this section, critical phases of flight includes all ground operations involving taxi, takeoff and landing, and all other flight operations conducted below 10,000 feet, except cruise flight.

I do know the FAA frowns on any distractions in critical stages of flight, ground operations included. It's called the Sterile Cockpit RuleThe following is the actual text from U.S. FAR 121.542/135.100, "Flight Crewmember Duties":[5] 1. No certificate holder shall require, nor may any flight crewmember perform, any duties during a critical phase of flight except those duties required for the safe operation of the aircraft. Duties such as company required calls made for such nonsafety related purposes as ordering galley supplies and confirming passenger connections, announcements made to passengers promoting the air carrier or pointing out sights of interest, and filling out company payroll and related records are not required for the safe operation of the aircraft. 2. No flight crewmember may engage in, nor may any pilot in command permit, any activity during a critical phase of flight which could distract any flight crewmember from the performance of his or her duties or which could interfere in any way with the proper conduct of those duties. Activities such as eating meals, engaging in nonessential conversations within the cockpit and nonessential communications between the cabin and cockpit crews, and reading publications not related to the proper conduct of the flight are not required for the safe operation of the aircraft. 3. For the purposes of this section, critical phases of flight includes all ground operations involving taxi, takeoff and landing, and all other flight operations conducted below 10,000 feet, except cruise flight.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxYes, I know that's what the regulations say.The regulations also say that landing and departing traffic must be separated by at least five miles. Tell that to the controllers at LAX, JFK, LGA and EWR.I think only a non-pilot would get excited about this stuff. What's really at issue with "sterile cockpit" is discussions among flight crew members (repeat among flight crew members) about things unrelated to the phase of flight at hand when below 10,000 feet AGL. What you're complaining about here are technical fouls, not safety issues.This stuff is of no more importance than is driving five mph over a speed limit. So should we drive five over? I personally don't but I also don't have a problem with those who do unless it's in a residential neighborhood.

Duplicate post deleted by xxmikexx.

Sometimes there's some flexibility in the rules, especially when the plane is sitting on a tarmac at 0 IAS. America hasn't gone altogether ######...yet.As far as 'sterile cockpit', I understand that fully, but bear in mind that for the better part you have one officer talking with ATC and another monitoring immediate status and functions of the plane...unless you're on Colgan Flight 3407.

Sometimes there's some flexibility in the rules, especially when the plane is sitting on a tarmac at 0 IAS. America hasn't gone altogether ######...yet.As far as 'sterile cockpit', I understand that fully, but bear in mind that for the better part you have one officer talking with ATC and another monitoring immediate status and functions of the plane...unless you're on Colgan Flight 3407.

To remain oriented, the pilot flying listens to the chatter between ATC and the pilot not flying. Is anyone going to argue that this is an unnecessary distraction that violates the intent of the sterile cockpit rules?Re Colgan Flight 3407, ironically their discussion had to do with icing conditions in principle, and with how the F/O felt she had been inadequately trained regarding airframe icing. From the CVR transcript it's a good guess that even the captain's training had been inadequate. The fact is that it didn't seem to occur to either of them that flying in known icing conditions might result in ice on their airframe. This is because they were flying in icing conditions with the A/P engaged -- so of course the aircraft seemed to be behaving normally. As I recall, the trap was sprung when they dropped the flaps and gear and then disengaged the A/P. Even then they didn't understand what was happening. As I recall the F/O asked the captain "Do you want me to raise the [gear? flaps?] again?" I believe they were already in the presumed flat spin when she asked this question.I'm far from being a high time pilot -- when I stopped I had only 110 hours. But I would not have made this rookie mistake. And now, for those of you who've read my posts over time, now you know why I will not ride in anything smaller than a 737, and then only if it's operated by a major carrier and not a feeder operation.

True that, but the captain and first officer were also in casual conversation regarding what they felt was low pay--as well as the first officer talking about being sick and that she'd rather have stayed home recuperating--during 'sterile cockpit' time, while the plane was being directed for approach nearing the outer marker for KBUF. Also, the captain was in his early 50s with less than 800 hours in the Q400, while the 24-year-old first officer had roughly 3 times the experience in the type. The plane was almost new, which means it was a -402 variant (74 seats max). The Q400 is the kind of plane you have to keep somewhat 'hot', even with its STOL capabilities and full flaps. They just didn't have enough airspeed for conditions, especially in icing. Someone needed to be in charge....neither seemed to be, and 50 people died for want of situational control.

True that, but the captain and first officer were also in casual conversation regarding what they felt was low pay--as well as the first officer talking about being sick and that she'd rather have stayed home recuperating--during 'sterile cockpit' time, while the plane was being directed for approach nearing the outer marker for KBUF. Also, the captain was in his early 50s with less than 800 hours in the Q400, while the 24-year-old first officer had roughly 3 times the experience in the type. The plane was almost new, which means it was a -402 variant (74 seats max). The Q400 is the kind of plane you have to keep somewhat 'hot', even with its STOL capabilities and full flaps. They just didn't have enough airspeed for conditions, especially in icing. Someone needed to be in charge....neither seemed to be, and 50 people died for want of situational control.

Re sterile cockpit, I agree with everything you said. I was simply pointing out the irony of their discussing icing immediately preceding the crash.

To remain oriented, the pilot flying listens to the chatter between ATC and the pilot not flying. Is anyone going to argue that this is an unnecessary distraction that violates the intent of the sterile cockpit rules?Re Colgan Flight 3407, ironically their discussion had to do with icing conditions in principle, and with how the F/O felt she had been inadequately trained regarding airframe icing. From the CVR transcript it's a good guess that even the captain's training had been inadequate. The fact is that it didn't seem to occur to either of them that flying in known icing conditions might result in ice on their airframe. This is because they were flying in icing conditions with the A/P engaged -- so of course the aircraft seemed to be behaving normally. As I recall, the trap was sprung when they dropped the flaps and gear and then disengaged the A/P. Even then they didn't understand what was happening. As I recall the F/O asked the captain "Do you want me to raise the [gear? flaps?] again?" I believe they were already in the presumed flat spin when she asked this question.I'm far from being a high time pilot -- when I stopped I had only 110 hours. But I would not have made this rookie mistake. And now, for those of you who've read my posts over time, now you know why I will not ride in anything smaller than a 737, and then only if it's operated by a major carrier and not a feeder operation.

The reason why he was doing all the pulling and they were lowering the flaps was because those were the procedures for a tail stall in turboprops. This issue has been pushed quite a bit by NASA and the FAA recently and that is most likely why he recovered this way.

The reason why he was doing all the pulling and they were lowering the flaps was because those were the procedures for a tail stall in turboprops. This issue has been pushed quite a bit by NASA and the FAA recently and that is most likely why he recovered this way.

You're quite mistaken. Here's the relevant part of the CVR transcript ...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/12/b...s_n_202152.htmlGear down.Flaps fifteen.Stick shaker triggers.A/P disconnected several seconds later, springing the trap.Aircraft crashes immediately while they monkey with the gear and flaps, still clueless about icing.It's clear that they had no clue what was happening. All they knew was that their problem seemed to begin when the lowered the flaps. Accordingly the F/O raised them and informed the captain that she had done so. But she hesitated regarding the gear. They cannot have known that the horizontal stabilizer had been blanked.

You're quite mistaken. Here's the relevant part of the CVR transcript ...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/12/b...s_n_202152.htmlGear down.Flaps fifteen.Stick shaker triggers.A/P disconnected several seconds later, springing the trap.Aircraft crashes immediately while they monkey with the gear and flaps, still clueless about icing.It's clear that they had no clue what was happening. All they knew was that their problem seemed to begin when the lowered the flaps. Accordingly the F/O raised them and informed the captain that she had done so. But she hesitated regarding the gear. They cannot have known that the horizontal stabilizer had been blanked.

Have you seen the FAA video from the public hearing?