Hello,I have noticed that sometimes when flying an airliner (like PMDG 747) in FSX, it is easy to notice in steep short final turns that you are applying full back pressure to joystick to control sinkrate. Home joysticks obviously do not give the same feel that would make you use the elevator trim as much as in real world.But my question is, do real 747 pilots, for example, ever apply full back pressure to the control yoke, for instance in a situation that they are making a manual turn to short final and therefore do not trim the airplane for the turn? Or is the extreme positions of the yoke rarely used at all?Thanks for any input.

Hello,I have noticed that sometimes when flying an airliner (like PMDG 747) in FSX, it is easy to notice in steep short final turns that you are applying full back pressure to joystick to control sinkrate. Home joysticks obviously do not give the same feel that would make you use the elevator trim as much as in real world.But my question is, do real 747 pilots, for example, ever apply full back pressure to the control yoke, for instance in a situation that they are making a manual turn to short final and therefore do not trim the airplane for the turn? Or is the extreme positions of the yoke rarely used at all?Thanks for any input.

Short answer is no... and shouldn't need to do that in the sim during normal ops, check your setup.Rob

Short answer is no... and shouldn't need to do that in the sim during normal ops, check your setup.Rob

He might also want to try adding power. Even 747s get a zone of inverted controls, where pulling back in the stick is just going to slow you down and not get you to go up.

One of the "difficult" basic tasks that wanna be pilots have to master is a 360 turn left followed by 360 right (or right/left) without altitude deviating +/- 100 ft. No amount of practice in a simulator will prepare you for this.

One of the "difficult" basic tasks that wanna be pilots have to master is a 360 turn left followed by 360 right (or right/left) without altitude deviating +/- 100 ft. No amount of practice in a simulator will prepare you for this.

Come on Dan, its not THAT difficult.... ;)

Yeah, sure. I did it the first time :(

The only time you'll use full control deflection in the real world is when you do a control check before flight. If you need full deflection in the air, you're in a BAD situation.I'll also agree with Dan. Maneuvers are much harder in the sim, and mastering the sim doesn't mean you can do it in real life. I still can't do a proper 172 landing in the sim, but I'd like to think my RW landings are acceptable.Paul

So what is the maximum deflection that is normally used when hand flying 747 for example? 50% or less/more? (Just an estimate)

You asked about not using trim? I only fly light aircraft IRLbut have done one session at a level D B767-sim at Arlanda/Stockholm. During the first takeoff I didń't trim the plane out as we accelerated and the increasing forces were very strong. You would not want to fly without constant trimming.

Tord,Yes, thats what I can imagine would happen in a real airplane. You would already feel the need to use the trim.This is what FS obviously lacks with standard joysticks, and so its easy to sometimes forget trimming and just deflect the stick to extreme positions. I wonder if there's any difference though, when talking about fly-by-wire aircraft. Since you do not feel the forces from the control surfaces, it could be easier to use large deflections in the controller. I know Airbus uses autotrim, but how about 777 for example.

The 777 behaves like a conventional airplane for the most part. If you add a bucket of power without adjusting the trim, you'll be doing calisthenics trying to hold the nose in place.Another point to note is that large planes have things like rudder ratio limiters. So as speed increases, full pedal deflection moves the rudder less and less.Paul

One of the "difficult" basic tasks that wanna be pilots have to master is a 360 turn left followed by 360 right (or right/left) without altitude deviating +/- 100 ft. No amount of practice in a simulator will prepare you for this.

Are we talking about a steep turn or a mundane standard rate turn?Paul

The 777 behaves like a conventional airplane for the most part. If you add a bucket of power without adjusting the trim, you'll be doing calisthenics trying to hold the nose in place.Another point to note is that large planes have things like rudder ratio limiters. So as speed increases, full pedal deflection moves the rudder less and less.Paul

Because as speed increases, the rudder becomes more efficient.

1. Paul, I was assuming Dan was talking about steep turns. Altitude control shouldn't be an issue on a STD rate or 1/2 STD rate turn. 2. REgarding joysticks and trimming, there are a few joysticks out there that have trim wheels on the yoke. (CH, for one, and I think Saitek). With PMDG aircraft you may have to futz around with a key command and assign it to the axis, but with the default aircraft its pretty easy. If you want to get a more realistic sense of flying, try it. In theory, a properly trimmed plane will hold its altitude without any control pressure and can make constant speed descents and climbs through the simple addition and subtraction of power.

Yeah, sure. I did it the first time :(

Because I'm not a real pilot, I'd love to ask.... if you're making a typical turn in the traffic pattern (90 degrees ~ 30 seconds), do you trim out the elevator forces during the turn or just hold the yoke back?