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David Roch

QPI/DRAM question

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Hi,My computer is stable @ 4.2 Ghz and the temps are ok for a 965 revision C0/C1 air cooled.But to maintain this stability I have to leave the QPI/DRAM core voltage on AUTO when I see most of the o/c with this value at 1.35.Is there any problem (=danger) letting the computer fix the QPI/DRAM voltage or should I lower my o/c until this value is at 1.35 volts?My specs on my signature.Thanks in advance!

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Guest Nick_N
Hi,My computer is stable @ 4.2 Ghz and the temps are ok for a 965 revision C0/C1 air cooled.But to maintain this stability I have to leave the QPI/DRAM core voltage on AUTO when I see most of the o/c with this value at 1.35.Is there any problem (=danger) letting the computer fix the QPI/DRAM voltage or should I lower my o/c until this value is at 1.35 volts?My specs on my signature.Thanks in advance!
Here is the tech skinny DaveIntel spec is 1.375vThat is not the max safe value but the one they published just to cover their arseI know you are safe without any degeneration of component as long as that tower has good airflow up to 1.42/1.43In your case would say the board you have has automatically increased the QPI/DRAM in AUTO mode else you would be just as unstable at AUTO as you are @ 1.35v baring something off in the BIOS itself.The danger with AUTO is that some boards may not increase the voltage as per the rule: .50v within DRAM VOLTAGE. So if you are at 1.65v DRAM then the lowest the QPI/DRAM should be set is 1.15 from its default of typically 1.10. On the flip side if a BIOS is not calculating it correctly it could also be too high, therefore it is usually best to set this value manually when clocking just to sure you are in the safe range. More than likely you are fine at AUTO, its just a precaution since boards and BIOS may set that voltage differently.You are safe to trim up to 1.42/1.43 manually but I do not suggest higher as the memory compaines are telling people to do. Start at 1.37 and work your way up. You will probably find is stabilizes between 1.37 and 1.40

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Guest Nick_N

Almost forgot DaveWith a C0 proc >4GHz+ you may need a little PLL/IOH voltageTry thisQPI/DRAM 1.35v - if this fails with the values stated below, raise to 1.37CPU PLL Voltage: 1.80 to 1.88IOH Voltage 1.20ICH Voltage 1.20See if that cures the issue with QPI/DRAM 1.35-1.37If it does you may be able to trim back a touch on CPU voltage.. you would need to test that in order to find out.Do make sure Load Line Calibration is ENABLED with the CE1/Speedstep features disabled

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Thank you so much Nick, that's exactly the information I was looking for.I'll follow your advices and report.All the best my friend :--)David

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:( This board is driving me crazy since I've changed my RAM few days ago from PC12000 CL8 to PC14900 CL7.I've tried different settings and even with the following I get BSODsCPU PLL: up to 1.88QPI/DRAM: up to 1.42IOH volt: 1.20ICH volt: 1.20I have to set both QPI/DRAM + CPU PLL to AUTO to get the system stable (*).The rest of my settings areCPU freq: 4131 (27 x 153)vcore: 1.42500 (I can't reach that CPU freq with less voltage)DRAM : 1844 Mhz @ 7-8-7-20 (Corsair specs)and all Spectrums and other C1E, Speedstep... disabled of course, Load Line Calibration enabled and HT off. (*) EDIT: I thought it was stable because it finished 100 passes of LinX 0.6.2 but OCCT killed my dreams :-((Any idea?

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:( This board is driving me crazy since I've changed my RAM few days ago from PC12000 CL8 to PC14900 CL7.I've tried different settings and even with the following I get BSODsCPU PLL: up to 1.88QPI/DRAM: up to 1.42IOH volt: 1.20ICH volt: 1.20I have to set both QPI/DRAM + CPU PLL to AUTO to get the system stable (*).The rest of my settings areCPU freq: 4131 (27 x 153)vcore: 1.42500 (I can't reach that CPU freq with less voltage)DRAM : 1844 Mhz @ 7-8-7-20 (Corsair specs)and all Spectrums and other C1E, Speedstep... disabled of course, Load Line Calibration enabled and HT off. (*) EDIT: I thought it was stable because it finished 100 passes of LinX 0.6.2 but OCCT killed my dreams :-((Any idea?
Do you have a chance to monitor the auto voltage value for QPI/DRAM and PLL in Bios or Windows? I bet that the autosettings pushes QPI/DRAM higher than you already have tried. You can set QPI/DRAM to 1.45 - 1.55 for a short time (to show which value is stable). My System runs with QPI/DRAM 1.50 with 2000MHz 7-8-7-20 memory settings. For 24/7 it is your choice if you will go higher than 1.43. It depends on how often you change your Hardware.

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Thanks for your answer :--)Asus TurboV shows QPI/DRAM: 1.47500 volts and CPU PLL: 1.81592 .Do you suggest that I set these values in the BIOS instead of AUTO?

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Thanks for your answer :--)Asus TurboV shows QPI/DRAM: 1.47500 volts and CPU PLL: 1.81592 .Do you suggest that I set these values in the BIOS instead of AUTO?
Hi,I would set PLL to 1.84 and QPI to 1.4750. As for the other Voltages: IOH: 1.14-1.18 / ICH: 1.10 / VDRAM: 1.64-1.66Set voltages manually is always a better choice.If you test your settings with linx, make sure that linx uses all available memory (button All)I wish you luck!

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Hi,I would set PLL to 1.84 and QPI to 1.4750. As for the other Voltages: IOH: 1.14-1.18 / ICH: 1.10 / VDRAM: 1.64-1.66Set voltages manually is always a better choice.If you test your settings with linx, make sure that linx uses all available memory (button All)I wish you luck!
Thanks!I will play with these settings.I will probably have other questions if you are around :-)

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Thanks!I will play with these settings.I will probably have other questions if you are around :-)
You're welcome!I'm not at home but my Notebook is always with me. :(

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Thanks again :--))Well... I was using LinX with default 768 memory, that's why it was ok...Using ALL > BSOD after a few seconds.So I used your settings and got a BSOD as well but after 5 minutes.Temps reached 86 C.I must admit that I am lost :( Maybe 4.131Ghz is too high for this chip with air cooling?

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Thanks again :--))Well... I was using LinX with default 768 memory, that's why it was ok...Using ALL > BSOD after a few seconds.So I used your settings and got a BSOD as well but after 5 minutes.Temps reached 86 C.I must admit that I am lost :( Maybe 4.131Ghz is too high for this chip with air cooling?
An BSOD after 5 minutes can be the heat, in your case, or your CPU and/or QPI needs a little bit more Voltage. But that causes even more heat. If you can't lower VCore, than only a better cooling solution can get you out of this, I'm afraid.Can you try OCCT as well and monitor the heat? Linx causes very high temps but is also a good indicator for 24/7 stability.

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An BSOD after 5 minutes can be the heat, in your case, or your CPU and/or QPI needs a little bit more Voltage. But that causes even more heat. If you can't lower VCore, than only a better cooling solution can get you out of this, I'm afraid.Can you try OCCT as well and monitor the heat? Linx causes very high temps but is also a good indicator for 24/7 stability.
Perhaps the sweet spot is a little lower. My 920 D0 is very happy with BCLK 190 x21 = 4Ghz with Vcore and QPI around 1.289V However that slightly under utilizes my 1600Mhz RAM, so I tried to shoot for the moon. To get to 200/4.2Ghz, I need 1.4V on Vcore and 1.43V on QPI, plus other little voltage tweeks elsewhere. Power consumption shot up by over 60W, translated into heat and my hotest core was pushing beyond 75C. I decided it was all to much for a 5% frequency gain that is probably insignificant in FSX terms.Simon

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Perhaps the sweet spot is a little lower. My 920 D0 is very happy with BCLK 190 x21 = 4Ghz with Vcore and QPI around 1.289V However that slightly under utilizes my 1600Mhz RAM, so I tried to shoot for the moon. To get to 200/4.2Ghz, I need 1.4V on Vcore and 1.43V on QPI, plus other little voltage tweeks elsewhere. Power consumption shot up by over 60W, translated into heat and my hotest core was pushing beyond 75C. I decided it was all to much for a 5% frequency gain that is probably insignificant in FSX terms.Simon
D0's needs less VQPI and VCore than the C0/C1 stepping. I also think that, if David go for 4000MHz his CPU is stable with less voltages and heat. With a better cooling solution he is maybe able to reach a good 4200MHz. In combination with a GTX-285, 4200MHz CPU can improve the smoothness of FSX, but 4000MHz is also a good value.

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Guest Nick_N
:( This board is driving me crazy since I've changed my RAM few days ago from PC12000 CL8 to PC14900 CL7.I've tried different settings and even with the following I get BSODsCPU PLL: up to 1.88QPI/DRAM: up to 1.42IOH volt: 1.20ICH volt: 1.20I have to set both QPI/DRAM + CPU PLL to AUTO to get the system stable (*).The rest of my settings areCPU freq: 4131 (27 x 153)vcore: 1.42500 (I can't reach that CPU freq with less voltage)DRAM : 1844 Mhz @ 7-8-7-20 (Corsair specs)and all Spectrums and other C1E, Speedstep... disabled of course, Load Line Calibration enabled and HT off. (*) EDIT: I thought it was stable because it finished 100 passes of LinX 0.6.2 but OCCT killed my dreams :-((Any idea?
Dave based on what you posted later in the thread the AUTO setting is reading the SPD on the memory modules programmed by Corsair and the Asus REII BIOS is calculating that out for you... and yes, you can use the Asus software to check it as I would have pointed out had a manual setup not been successful although I much prefer a scope or DVOM to check such things over the Windows software especially when I am playing with an expensive processor. Corsair memory will tell you to exceed 1.45v QPI/DRAM to run their 1866/2000 memory products and its something I disagree with. None the less if its stable running AUTO leave it please. The 1.475 value being run is higher than I would normally suggest be run however it is well under the 1.5-1.65 they have been telling people to run using their >1600 memory products and just a bit higher than I would post in a forum to run.My conversations with a rep in Intel engineering have provided a non official insight into this issue. His assessment is these memory companies are betting on 2 things.. 1. The damage that may ensue will happen but a critical loss may not appear for a long period of time 2. You are overclocking, tough luckThe heat produced by raising that value can not be monitored which is why it is so very important the tower have good airflow if the user intends to exceed the 1.375 limit Intel officially placed on the spec. This issue is exactly why I do not run 2000 memory. You can obtain higher performance than DDR3 2000 8-8-8 by running DDR3 1600 @ 6-6-6. When I was working with the DDR3 2000 products earlier this year I was forced to run a QPI/DRAM of 1.52-1.62v and Corsair was one of them. When they release stable DDR3 2000 running 7-7-7 or lower in timing (7-7-7 is on the market) and it does not require a QPI/DRAM of above 1.50 to remain stable, or, I don

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D0's needs less VQPI and VCore than the C0/C1 stepping. I also think that, if David go for 4000MHz his CPU is stable with less voltages and heat. With a better cooling solution he is maybe able to reach a good 4200MHz. In combination with a GTX-285, 4200MHz CPU can improve the smoothness of FSX, but 4000MHz is also a good value.
Yes Simon is right, the only "game" (I don't like this word for FS) I use is FSX and the difference between 4.00 and 4.20 is probably marginal.But I love challenges...Crashmaw, with your settings after 1hour, OCCT ran without error at 79C max.(PLL: 1.84, QPI: 1.475, IOH:1.18 and ICH: 1.10, vcore: 1.425 and freq: 4.131Ghz).I understand I could obtain better cooling changing the Zalman for a better solution but will this be enough to reach 4.20 stable?Maybe can you advice me (no watercooling) ?Thanks a lot to both of you

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Dave based on what you posted later in the thread the AUTO setting is reading the SPD on the memory modules programmed by Corsair and the Asus REII BIOS is calculating that out for you... and yes, you can use the Asus software to check it as I would have pointed out had a manual setup not been successful although I much prefer a scope or DVOM to check such things over the Windows software especially when I am playing with an expensive processor. Corsair memory will tell you to exceed 1.45v QPI/DRAM to run their 1866/2000 memory products and its something I disagree with. None the less if its stable running AUTO leave it please. The 1.475 value being run is higher than I would normally suggest be run however it is well under the 1.5-1.65 they have been telling people to run using their >1600 memory products and just a bit higher than I would post in a forum to run.My conversations with a rep in Intel engineering have provided a non official insight into this issue. His assessment is these memory companies are betting on 2 things.. 1. The damage that may ensue will happen but a critical loss may not appear for a long period of time 2. You are overclocking, tough luckThe heat produced by raising that value can not be monitored which is why it is so very important the tower have good airflow if the user intends to exceed the 1.375 limit Intel officially placed on the spec. This issue is exactly why I do not run 2000 memory. You can obtain higher performance than DDR3 2000 8-8-8 by running DDR3 1600 @ 6-6-6. When I was working with the DDR3 2000 products earlier this year I was forced to run a QPI/DRAM of 1.52-1.62v and Corsair was one of them. When they release stable DDR3 2000 running 7-7-7 or lower in timing (7-7-7 is on the market) and it does not require a QPI/DRAM of above 1.50 to remain stable, or, I don

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That's very interesting Nick.So your advices are:1) to leave QPI and PLL to Auto if I keep this Corsair RAM and this CPU frequency.2) to change my DDR 1866 to a DDR 1600 CL6Please tell me about IOH and ICH (your values are higher than the ones Crashmax gave me). Should I leave them on AUTO as well and launch OCCT and see the temps?A warm thanks again :--)
DavidI've got a 975@4.4GHz on 1.35vCore with 1866MHz RAM at 7-7-6-18 N1 on 1.435vQPI, also on a RIIE. With Nick's help I was able to get the RAM (which is OCZ Blade certified to run at 2000MHz on 7-8-7-20 at 1.65v) to run at 2000MHz using high vQPI. This was good enough for a few benchmarks and even a few FSX runs. But experience tells me - and believe me, I have tried - nothing higher than 1866MHz is stable on my setup. Additionally, I've noticed that Everest now reports slightly degraded performance both for the CPU and the RAM. It's an admittedly nominal difference: the L3 cache latency is down from 2.9 to 3.0 and the RAM has also lost about 0.1ns in latency. But I regard it as a warning sign and a caution about hiking the voltages just to achieve the RAM's certified speed.Since 1600MHz RAM at 6-6-6 N1 does not require "dangerous" vQPI and since it gives NEARLY the same performance in FSX as the 1866MHz RAM at 7-7-6 N1, IMHO this is the smart choice - until someone produces faster RAM that doesn't need higher vQPI. I'm going to stick to 1866MHz at 7-7-6-18 N1 just because it's what I've got used to, but I would not recommend this for anyone interested in the lifespan of their components. If you're having trouble getting stable at 1866 then don't bother persisting: just pull back to 1600 and enjoy: you're not missing enough to make it worthwhile. You might want to check out this thread, if you haven't already done so: http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtopic=255816&hl= Tim

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Thanks for your input Tim :-)Unfortunately here in Israel I can't find the Mushkin PC12000 CL6 and Newegg doesn't deliver to foreign countries.Thanks to you guys, I understand now that the best thing to do is to stay with some good DDR3 1600 with a safe CPU @ 4.0Ghz.Now here is my choice:I can change my new Corsair 1866 for a G.Skill Kit Extreme3 3 x 2 Go PC12800 Trident @ 6-7-6-18 (1.65v) or ask for a refund and use the "old" RAM I wanted to eBay (Corsair PC1600 @8-8-8-24) which was stable but with quite high timings.Questions:- is the G.Skill a good choice?(product specifications here: http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=186)- will I feel any improvement in FSX between the DDR3 1600@ 8- 8- 8-24 and the DDR3 1600 @ 6-7-6-18?

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Thanks for your input Tim :-)Unfortunately here in Israel I can't find the Mushkin PC12000 CL6 and Newegg doesn't deliver to foreign countries.Thanks to you guys, I understand now that the best thing to do is to stay with some good DDR3 1600 with a safe CPU @ 4.0Ghz.Now here is my choice:I can change my new Corsair 1866 for a G.Skill Kit Extreme3 3 x 2 Go PC12800 Trident @ 6-7-6-18 (1.65v) or ask for a refund and use the "old" RAM I wanted to eBay (Corsair PC1600 @8-8-8-24) which was stable but with quite high timings.Questions:- is the G.Skill a good choice?(product specifications here: http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=186)- will I feel any improvement in FSX between the DDR3 1600@ 8- 8- 8-24 and the DDR3 1600 @ 6-7-6-18?
Hi DaveA few overclocking friends of mine uses G.Skill Trident and they are very happy with this sticks. Some of this guys have also the ASUS RIIE.I tried the difference between 8-8-8-24 and 6-7-6-18 and for me it seems, that flight is smoother with lower latency. I'm sure Nick can give you the details about that.You ask also which air-cooler is best for i7. Unfortunately it is a long time since I used air-cooling for CPU's. I'm sure if you read some reviews you will find the answer. There is a chance that with better air-cooling you can reach 4.2GHz with your 965, but no guaranty.Greetings!

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Hi DaveA few overclocking friends of mine uses G.Skill Trident and they are very happy with this sticks. Some of this guys have also the ASUS RIIE.I tried the difference between 8-8-8-24 and 6-7-6-18 and for me it seems, that flight is smoother with lower latency. I'm sure Nick can give you the details about that.You ask also which air-cooler is best for i7. Unfortunately it is a long time since I used air-cooling for CPU's. I'm sure if you read some reviews you will find the answer. There is a chance that with better air-cooling you can reach 4.2GHz with your 965, but no guaranty.Greetings!
Yes, for the cooler I will find the information on hardware forums.And again a big thanks for your help and advices.They are very much appreciated! :(

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Questions:- is the G.Skill a good choice?(product specifications here: http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=186)- will I feel any improvement in FSX between the DDR3 1600@ 8- 8- 8-24 and the DDR3 1600 @ 6-7-6-18?
Same problem here in the UK, no suppliers for Mushkin and too difficult to buy on the continent. Instead I went for the G.Skill Trident (1600 Mhz version - 6.7.6.18) and have been very pleased with them. Ran them up to 1700Mhz on the same timings with no problem at all.For coolers, I had some bad experiences with heavy air coolers breaking motherboards. For that job I chose the new Corsair CWCH50 self contained water cooling. Very simple to set up with a light weight cpu block, very effective with temps a little better than equivalent air coolers for just a little more money. Some would consider it a "toy", but so far I cannot fault it.Simon

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Guest Nick_N
Thanks for your input Tim :-)Unfortunately here in Israel I can't find the Mushkin PC12000 CL6 and Newegg doesn't deliver to foreign countries.Thanks to you guys, I understand now that the best thing to do is to stay with some good DDR3 1600 with a safe CPU @ 4.0Ghz.Now here is my choice:I can change my new Corsair 1866 for a G.Skill Kit Extreme3 3 x 2 Go PC12800 Trident @ 6-7-6-18 (1.65v) or ask for a refund and use the "old" RAM I wanted to eBay (Corsair PC1600 @8-8-8-24) which was stable but with quite high timings.Questions:- is the G.Skill a good choice?(product specifications here: http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=186)- will I feel any improvement in FSX between the DDR3 1600@ 8- 8- 8-24 and the DDR3 1600 @ 6-7-6-18?
Sorry I did not get back to you right away Dave but I am out on the boat and having a hard time getting a solid mobile connection. The GSkill is perfectly FINE Dave. Any memory that is rated CAS6 for i7 is fine. The higher you can get nudge above 1600 on the same timing stable, including 1T (or 1N)... is BETTERThe direct equivalent of DDR3 2000 @ 7-7-7 timing is DDR3 1700-1740 @ 6-6-6.. 6-7-6 is CLOSE enough. You may or may not be able to hit 1700 @ 6-7-6 but at 1600 on i7 and because of the jump from a 60% to 90% bandwidth efficiency going from past Intel to i7 .. you WONT see that much difference. So 1600 6-7-6 is A-OK, and anything higher by playing with BCLOCK + Multiplier and remain @ 1.35-1.43 QPI/DRAM is a PERKI see no problem with a 1.375-1.43 QPI/DRAM with good airflow... no adverse long term effects.@ 1600 you should not need to move past 1.35.. however if you wish to play a bit and try for a higher memory speed you may need to work QPI/DRAM 1.35-1.43CPU PLL 1.80 - 1.88IOH 1.15- 1.20If you cant obtain higer than 1600, dont sweat it at that timing :( You are running FASTER than DDR3 1866 7-7-7 and DDR3 2000 8-8-8 @ 1600 6-7-6

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Dear Nick, if you were a woman, I'll mary you!!! :( Thanks again for your precious and generous help.All the best,David

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Guest simjunkie

David and Nick;I have to say I am very concerned about running these Elpida chips that are in these 1600 C6 modules faster than 1600. I'm on my 5th set of these now (Redline Ascent 1600 6-6-5-18). It took 4 sets to get one that worked initially (Mushkin custom picked me my 4th set) and that one ran fine until I started running it at 1680something (still @ 1.65v). It wasn't long after that when one stick died and back to Mushkin they went and I was lucky enough to get another set. Now I won't dare go over 1600.I never overvolted (1.65 set in BIOS and it varied from 1.65-1.69 indicated). vQPI 1.35 set in BIOS and it veried from 1.35-1.39 indicated). My case is an Antec 300 and it has good airflow. Memory never felt hot to the touch and there's air flowing directly over it all the time.There are a lot of folks who just seem to lose these hyperchips-based DIMMs at the drop of a hat...they just die even though temps and voltages seem to be well within spec. And they're getting scarce if a replacement is needed. I was lucky to get what I have because they're out of production. I don't want to lose these. I'm very paranoid about running any faster. I even dropped the vDIMM a little from 1.65v.I'm just saying you might want to baby these if you have them and not run much faster (if any) than 1600.-jk

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