Does the acumulation of airframe/naucelle/prop ice have any effect on the flight/engine/thrust models? Or, will the acumulation of ice effect the performance of the J41?JB

I've been told that the ice buildup DOES affect performance. I've never stuck around in icing conditions with the anti-ice and de-ice systems off long enough to find out what effect it has.Nick

A lot of times, when flying right through a cloud, at the right conditions, ice forms. However, there's a lot of turbulence, and I don't really know if it's because of the cloud or because of the ice.

A lot of times, when flying right through a cloud, at the right conditions, ice forms. However, there's a lot of turbulence, and I don't really know if it's because of the cloud or because of the ice.

A large buildup of airframe ice on the leading edges of the wings will cause disrupted flow causing a decrease in lift manifesting itself by the need for a higher AOA to maintain level flight at a given airspeed, this will snowball into an increase in induced drag needing more power and then finally leading to one of the wings stalling causing an abrupt roll. This is all due to not getting rid of the increasing ice buildup and staying in icing conditions. Too much prop ice and the same thing happens, but to the thrust efficiency of the props, so too much prop ice and you should steadily loose thrust at the same power setting.As Naucelle or engine intake ice builds, it starts to close off the intake area and the engine starts strugling to get air, so EGT's should rise and then sooner or later a flameout due to loss of airflow or the ice breaking off into the turbine.When I get some time tonight, I will try to hang out in controlled icing, I will report back unless someone chimes in that has a definitive answer.JB

A large buildup of airframe ice on the leading edges of the wings will cause disrupted flow causing a decrease in lift manifesting itself by the need for a higher AOA to maintain level flight at a given airspeed, this will snowball into an increase in induced drag needing more power and then finally leading to one of the wings stalling causing an abrupt roll. This is all due to not getting rid of the increasing ice buildup and staying in icing conditions. Too much prop ice and the same thing happens, but to the thrust efficiency of the props, so too much prop ice and you should steadily loose thrust at the same power setting.As Naucelle or engine intake ice builds, it starts to close off the intake area and the engine starts strugling to get air, so EGT's should rise and then sooner or later a flameout due to loss of airflow or the ice breaking off into the turbine.When I get some time tonight, I will try to hang out in controlled icing, I will report back unless someone chimes in that has a definitive answer.JB

Thanks for your reply. :( However, I will also try and find out what the ice can do to the performance of the airframe, engines, props.

The icing effects are A+++ on this modelThey have done well there i tried to get the ice off the windshield with the wipers had to do a missed approach haha.One question can the icing affect be seen from spot view?

One question can the icing affect be seen from spot view?

Yes.

Yes.

arr OK i must have different settings in the con fig manager i could only see it from the cockpit :)

A couple shots of icing:

Wicked shots Kurt :( the old Qantas a :(CheersBlake

Ohh well... Just spent about 30 minutes in low level icing....Loaded up the sim and started a small freeware utility called AFSD that will give me "Ice Weight" on the aircraft in FSX.Lined up Rwy 34L Van Nuys. Disabled Rex, and created a custom global cumulus cloud layer at 1000agl and tops at 5000agl, medium precip, set wind and turb to none, vis at 30 miles with temps at ground level at 32F. My plan is to depart and level out at 2000 MSL, this will give me the oportunity to climb into the cloud layer and outa the cloud layer in just 200 feet. I will maintain 150 knots in a clean config, trim it out and set power to maintain 150 knots. Once power and trim is set at 150kts, I should notice any changes on the flight model.Departed and set everything up at 2k. TAT indicated -1 to +1 C, left all the ice equip off except the air data tubes and the windshield heat. All of the leading edges, the nose cone and the spinners iced up visually. After atleast 15 minutes, I didn't notice any change to the flight model of the J41. AFSD showed no ice buildup at all. Next test is to actually go into the weather menu and add severe icing to the cloud layer at 1000agl. After doing this and climbing into the FSX icing layer, AFSD was showing an ice buildup as it does normally and the plane was getting heavier at a rough pitiful FSX icing rate of 1 pound per 2 seconds. I let the ice build to about 100 pounds and then hit the boots... and the visual ice on the leading edges as well as the AFSD ice build up dropped off the plane. Then I let the AFSD ice build up again and instead of hitting the boots, I hit the prop heaters... This had no effect on the AFSD ice. I hit the engine anti ice and no effect on the AFSD ice... Heres my conclusionThe J41 has it's own icing generator seperate from FSX. It will start to generate visual ice buildup in the apropriate areas if you are flying in typical icing conditions. (Visual moisture and TAT between -10c to +10c) The Icing equip on the J41 will also work as PMDG said it would to deice as well as to prevent ice in all of the apropriate areas of the aircraft. Knowing how well the visual simulation worked I was hoping it would somehow affect the flight model as well. Unfortunately it doesn't influence the flight model nor the engine simulation at all and to be honest, PMDG never said it would, so you can't hold it against them. Now FSX has it's own structural icing simulation, which unfortunately has many limitations. In FSX if you take any aircraft, 3rd party or default and fly them into icing conditions the aircraft will not pick up structural ice unless you tag the particular cloud layer with light to severe icing in the weather menu. I do believe that some 3rd party weather engines will tag random cloud layers with icing in a random fashon, so you can pick up random structural ice if you are using these 3rd party weather addons with the correct settings.The test shows that the J41 can pick up structural ice that will affect the flight model by adding "ice weight" to the weight and ballance of the aircraft just like every other aircraft 3rd party or not, as long as you fly the aircraft into an FSX cloud layer that has been tagged with icing. But, the J41 visual icing simulation which will generate visual icing in all typical icing conditions is not synced with the fsx icing simulation in any other way except that the Ice boots will remove the FSX generated ice. This means that the J41 can pick up visual ice that won't affect the performance characteristics of the aircraft until the aircraft flies into a "Fsx Icing zone" and that it could also possibly pick up invisible structural ice that isn't seen by the visual model but will affect the performance of the aircraft without any visual cues on the wings or anucation cues on the panel. I'm not sure if it's possible, but it would be cool if somehow PMDG could get thier visual icing simulation to link to the FSX icing simulation so that when the PMDG bird picked up visual ice in the correct manner, it would also add "FSX Ice Weight" to the flight model as well.JB

very cool! Are there rain effects on the windshield too?

very cool! Are there rain effects on the windshield too?

Unfortunately not, but the Ramp manager has a "Bikini Car Wash" Option if you need to get the J41 washed before an important flight. :( JB

Very interesting tests and conclusions JB. It sure would be cool to see such an integration with the FSX icing simulation to the J41's visual icing model.

Very interesting tests and conclusions JB. It sure would be cool to see such an integration with the FSX icing simulation to the J41's visual icing model.

Bump ! :( J