FSD! Im over add-ons with anti-piracy built in.

[B777ER 2,486]

Hmm, after reading this, I just deleted FSD's webpage. Not buying anything from them. Curious to know how many times PMDG will let you re-activate their license. I look at this way, I am the customer and I just spent the money to purchase your product. So give me what I need to run it on my machine. Sorry but FSD needs to look at the way PSS does it. You log into PSS's site and go to your file area and all the stuff you ever bought from them is right there for you to d/l again and again and again. Stuff I bought for FS2000 is still there!! I have gone through 2 computer upgrades and going on a third for FS2004 and have no worries at all about my PSS products. PSS is IMO the most customer friendly company. They sure would not treat you like FSD with that "well, it's not our fault you re-installed windows x number of times so you will just have to buy it again". To heck with FSD, they'll never see a penny from me.

[Guest]

Well put Gregg, your key is one part of your receipt in the system we now use and in the case I mentioned, blocking the thief from future purchases from Eaglesoft is very satisfactory to me!:-)Our organization will continue in business despite thieves but I don't mean to imply that we are going to make it easy for them to steal from us:-)Machine binding does stop thieves in their tracks but as already mentioned causes huge headaches to consumers. To take your thought a bit further.....a lock can and does slow down or even stop a thief from coming into your home, car, or hanger.The also protects your bank account, and anything else you may value:-) In my opinion locks are made to keep thieves away, not honest men:-)Ron Hamilton

[Guest]

Pete, glad you and all the honest folks are enjoying our products:-)I certainly am not accusing anyone in this forum of thievery, I have neither the time nor inclination to track these scumbags down:-)I also have no regret when I close and lock the door to someone who is an obvious thief.Just joined the thread because stealing seems to be very wide spread these days and wanted to put my two cents in:-)I do wish that consumers everywhere would WAKE UP to the inconvenience and costs caused by stealing! It's not addon developers who have caused all this headache, it's the people who think that stealing is their right.Best,Ron Hamilton

[Guest SoarPics]

Ron,It's clear to all of us here that you believe we are the good guys... we're the honest purchasers of your products.What folks find so offensive about all this is the intrusiveness of machine binding. It is especially irksome to flight simmers because we upgrade our hardware much more often than the average computer user. No one likes to have any entity lurking into their private property and matters. It's a basic human instinct.You say you don't have the time to chase down the pirates... that's understandable. You simply can't afford to do so. But intruding into the privacy of your honest customers will do nothing to stop the thieves. The most you can hope to do is lose your honest customers.Good luck... you have a difficult challenge.

[michal 44]

>In the>end it gains the developers nothing.>You keep repeating this over and over like a broken record. How do you know this ? Can you provide some industry-wide studies on the subject ? Perhaps it gets them something or they would not be doing it. If you want to have impact on the industry that would lead to changes I suggest you organize nationwide consumers' revolt that would boycot such companies. Good luck. But it seems in the meantime the industry settled on some anti-piracy standards and majority of consumers accepted it though with not much enthusiasm. It is like with the capitalism - most accept it since no one invented anything better.Michael J.

[Guest]

Actually no difference at all:-) I wasn't involved in development work back then....just noted it in passing because it was my first exposure to all these methods:-)I do recall being brought up like many in this forum to believe that stealing something that is not yours is no small thing to be swept under a rug.We have laws, rules, locks, and prison cells, all designed to stop or slow down people from taking what is NOT theirs to take!! Yet it seems that people continue to think that it is OK.Best,Ron

[Tabs 2,790]

>Machine binding does stop thieves in their tracks but as>already mentioned causes huge headaches to consumers. I have yet to see any proof of this and in fact if you look at Office XP and Windows XP, there were cracks out within a week of the product launch that stripped the protection scheme right out of it. If the protection is embedded within the product, there's virtually no way to stop the crackers from decompiling it and hacking the protection. Just look at FS2004 - not even out yet and it's already pirated with the SafeDisc protection removed.Someone here brought up a really interesting idea? Is it wrong to use a protection disabling crack if you actually bought the software in question? If something like the maker trying to lock you out of the sotware you legally purchased because they believe you've installed it too many times, then I see no problem whatsoever with doing that. I've refrained from commenting on this in the PMDG forum because I've had a pretty good experience with their whole activation thing (took me about a minute to do), but man, saying that you're not allowed to format your HD, upgrade, etc as many times as you damn well please is WAAAAY over the line IMO. You paid for that software, not for the right to install it only a few times. Remember that ill-fated DVD scheme Circuit City had where you'd buy the movie at a cheaper price and the disc would disable itself after like 2 or 3 watchings? I hope that's not what we have to look forward to with software installs.Companies have every right to protect their software, but from my personal experience over many years using computers and the Internet, any time someone tries any kind of copy protection scheme, it is cracked almost instantaneously. (usually by some 15 year old kid overseas, as in the case of DVD CSS encryption) As much flak as MS takes over XP's activation, I've never found it to be a problem. I reinstall pretty frequently - I like to mess around with the OS, tweak things etc and sometimes things don't work out and I have to start over. I also just like the way Windows runs after a clean install - we all know the OS bloats and breaks down over time and sometimes starting from scratch is the best way to solve strange problems that are happening. I've never had trouble re-activating XP after doing this, not even when changing hardware. According to MS, you have to have three major componet ID#'s change at the same time since your last activation for it to fail to activate, at which point you just call them and explain it briefly and they give you a new code and set that as your valid system profile. The hardware that qualifies I believe are the motherboard, CPU, primary HD, and network card. 9 times out 10 I keep at least two of those when upgrading (esp the network card - they're all the same anyway, why "upgrade" one?). Maybe if the payware FS companies used somethign like this that took muliple pieces of hardware into account, they'd go a long way toward solving the problem.Oh and about companies going out of business, I'd hope they'd just release a patch file to the AVSIM library or something like that that would disable the protection - or just put up all their products as freeware.Ryan

[Guest SoarPics]

Well, Michael J., I know this because I'm a businessman. I learned long ago that aggravating your customers yields nothing. As in "Zero".And while you're on the subject of Capitalism... the first rule is that the consumer is the controlling force. Because they are the folks spending the money. When and where they choose.Regards,

[Guest]

Ron,Stick with the way you do your anti-pirate for Beechjet with flight1. I think it works better for both sides!Can't wait for your CitationX. I sure will be one of the first in line on her release! as long as you don't start doing what FSD has done!I also have the CS727. Never have any problems when I request a new Licence. Probably done it 15 times since there release!Pete.

[Guest]

What people don't understand is that people program these anti-piracy codes and you know what people can easily break those codes. Pirates don't do this for money or because their after this product they do it for fun, enjoyment, the challenge to see if they can.Hackers and pirates are well educated programers who know how to manipulate programs just like the well educated programmers who make the programs. Game companies have come up with one form of protection or another and you know what, its hacked and cracked within 24 hours.Remember when Madonna through that phony MP3 of her album out. Within 24 hours hackers were in her sight and posted the entire album full version to download off HER OWN web site.I appreciate all the hard work that goes into these addons and I purchase every one of them. Yes they are making it hard to pirate but do you think hackers care whether they can hack a 737, NO!!! They'll move onto Doom 3 or something, they could care less. But the customers who love aviation and legally buy the software ends up the big looser.In the gaming industry I don't think add-on planes for Flight Simulator are a hot commodity with people dying to get them. This is only a game, a simulation which in the grand scheme of things means absolutely nothing. It doesn't pay my bills, or feed my kids, or pick up the poop after my dog.I've watched threads fly back and forth on various message boards and you'd think we were dealing with life and death, were dealing with a GAME!!!! A game that you need a blood test, valid D/L, SS#, 3 Credit Cards, Job History, Credit References, 3 Personal References, and a 2 year job history just to get a $20 plane that is only 1's and 0's on a monitor.You know its easier to get a mortgage now a days than it is to purchase an add-on plane for flight simulator. Thats really sad. Yes we can blame pirates and hackers for this but in the end it only gives us the customers a headache not the hackers, they just laugh, point and say "what idiots" and they move on to something that people really want.I don't mind paying for my add-ons, I love flight and this game we all play and I have no choice but to put up with this crap I must go through and I will. I don't like it as much as the next guy but like I always say "Good Guys Finish Last". Thanks to all the addon developers for the enjoyment you provide, keep supplying the great planes and addons but eventually I'll run out of blood, I'm already a little pale :)Sean

[Guest]

Hi Guys,all I am wiling to say is, after reading all 5 pages, I'm going to at least delay ANY purchase.I am about to replace/upgrade mainboard, processor and harddrive in the next months in prep for 2K4, so I'll spare me the trouble for now.Oh, by the way, last weekend I reinstalled my whole system for the third time this year due to a serious driver problem.Legitimate protection is one matter, but I guess I'll stick with less restrictive policies for the time being.Torsten

[Guest]

You know come to think of it the best company with piracy protection to deal with has got to Radar Contact besides PSS that is.I know I've reformatted and reinstalled at least 10x since January when it was released and they always provide a new code with a smile. Maybe some of these other software developers should talk to them.John Decker and the group over there have got to have the BEST customer service with piracy protection I've seen.Just my humble opinon.SeanAlso they let everybody beta test new upgrades just no there best friends. The only other company to do that was Dreamfleet with their 737 which is the best by far aircraft ever made for Flight Sim.

[blave 0]

Just to weigh in here... I have bought a number of payware add-ons for FS2002/FS2000, including some FSD products (I forget how many as I don't keep track of the vendors - I have several of these add-ons). In my "world", I have paid for a product and as such I am entitled to use that product "in eternity" for my own use - no matter what the circumstances of my environment (IP address, number of installations, etc.) And - also - I am entitled to that use no matter what the Software License says - don't even get me started about the lack of responsibility contained within the typical EULA.I cannot be responsible for the illegal actions of others - I Feel Your Pain but on the other hand I should not be penalized for those actions. FSD and other "payware" companies need to figure out a methodology of product licensing that doesn't inhibit Good Folks' use of those products. I know that pirating is rampant (just recently I heard a twenty-something male declare that he doesn't buy music CDs - he just downloads/burns 'em - sniveling little f*** that he was) but we honest licensees shouldn't need to worry about or be penalized by what these Evildoers might do.I am proud to support high-quality FS2*** add-ons - but you can bet that I will be more reluctant to buy future products if I have to worry myself about how useful that product is based on how many times I am forced to move that product from PC to PC or re-format my hard disk.IMO the "Danger Will Robinson - Pirates are at the Jupiter II's ramp!" Warning Bell should ring whenever a single IP address is used for 20 to 50 or more registrations - anything in the 1 to 20 range should be regarded as (for an example) Users Being Forced To Re-Format Due To Windows ** (where "**" = 95/98/NT/2000/XP/whatever) Screwing Up Their Lives. Further, the notices sent to such folks should be more polite and less condescending than those indicated in this thread. (Thus, my suggestion that the Warning Bell actuation be tied to a larger number than 10 or 20...)Dave BlevinsSan Jose, CA

[Guest]

Greg, while any secure purchase system can be used to monitor all sorts of information about consumers it is not now and never will be the policy at Eaglesoft!:-)Honest people are not the problem here at Eaglesoft:-)Having said that it should be noted that we refuse to turn a blind eye to the fact that people steal from us and we deal swiftly when it comes to our attention.We have been very fortunate so far and have had maybe three or four bad guys that we have had to deal with.That is of course not counting the thieves who put our stuff up at some the sites mentioned earlier in this thread.I hope that reason will prevail in these and other discussions along these lines.Best,Ron

[Guest SoarPics]

"Having said that it should be noted that we refuse to turn a blind eye to the fact that people steal from us and we deal swiftly when it comes to our attention."Kewl!!! I hope you dealt with them harshly... that's the least they deserve."That is of course not counting the thieves who put our stuff up at some the sites mentioned earlier in this thread."And most within the community do what we can to keep each other (and developers like you) apprised of such activites. We all gotta look out for each other.My position as a consumer is that I shouldn't have to jump through alot of security hoops just to use a product I purchase. Hopefully, in the future the whole system to stop pirates will become more user friendly and less envasive to customers.Thanks,