FOR GOD SAKES, STOP PUTTING PMDG IN THE SAME LEAQUE AS FSD, PMDG WILL IM SURE LET YOU INSTALL AS MUCH AS YOU WANT, YOU SEND THEM THE KEY THROUGH EMAIL, ITS NOT DONE SECERTLY LIKE FSD.PLEASE... Sorry for the caps, but com on guys, FSD are the only onse who get uptight about the use pf your product. Coming from a family of Law professionals, and Barristers (UK), I have already sought legal advice, and if they give me any greif when FSACOF is out, I have checked my legal stance, and all I can say is, Bring it on :)Also note PMDG give 10 days grace on the Serial number so you can play while waiting for your serial number. FSD are outrageous, and I hope they change their ways. otherwise they will surley fail.JasonPS FSD's Protection dosent chaecy your PC innards, I replaced my motherboard, cpu, and my commander stil worked ok. All FSD need to do is just Re0activate when asked, thats it, as long as the email is coming from the orignal user, then whats up.

While I (like many) could go on for hours, the facts are...1. Anti-piracy protection does not work. Ever.2. The only people it stops are the honest ones.3. The only people it hurts are the actual paying customers.But more importantly, further up in the thread, I didn't appreciate the post that advertised my European paintings... now everyone will attempt to burgle my house and get my (mass produced) print of a Spitfire Mk V by Barrie A.F. Clark.

I find it a bit strange when end-users talk about software that they own and how they should manage said software.In most, if not all cases these days, a purchaser does NOT own the software. The code remains the exclusive property of the developer, NOT the fellow that came into Best Buy and walked out with software.What really happens after leaving Best Buy is that the developer in question has given you permission to install and use the software, nothing more.In the CAD industry, pirated software has existed for many years. Pirates usually take the approach that the developer in question has already made enough money on a particular application, and that what the developer will miss in lost income from a particular pirated application is miniscule. Yet, what I find most amusing is it is that same pirate that will insist to high heaven that he get paid for the drafting work he's done using the pirated application. If you're unwilling to pay for software, you should also be willing to accept the idea that YOU may not get paid for the work YOU do.I have a very simple policy when contracting outside vendors. I ask if software that will be used to fill my order is legally registered or not. Those unwilling to disclose such information are automatically passed over for work. In cases where I latter find that work was done on pirated software, I simply don't pay the vendor in question.The point I'm trying to make is this, you do not OWN the software, you're given permission to USE the software, in accordance to the developers wishes.Not taking sides in this particular case, both sides have a least some resonable assumptions about "proper use" of the software in question.Re-installing an O/S is usually used as a LAST resort to making a specific piece of software work properly. In the many years I've used computers, I may have re-installed an O/S once. Not once a week, once a month or once a year. At some point in time as a developer, I'd start questioning a person that continually requests installation codes to re-install software. I would not expect my customer base to request codes simply because the customer(s) in question regularly re-install(s) the O/S.On the other hand, the developer should be able to understand that not in all circumstances will EVERY customer request ONE code only ONCE. Hard drives DO get corrupted, and so do O/Ses. Sometimes this happens through customer errors, and sometimes it is caused by developers.As to how many request codes should be issued, I leave that up to the developer in question and the person asking for the request codes. I trust an amiacable solution between the two parties is within the realm of possiblity.Just my $.02.

I think that through this whole post there has been no refutation of the actual effectiveness of the mode of protection that FSD uses. They've made a new installer format that forces you to go through painful steps to install legitimate software. In the past they used the F1 Shell, which I imagine was easy to pirate as it simply unzipped an installer that you could ship to friends...seems easy enough to me.Now FSD uses this system with a key, monitoring how many installs and on how many comps. The question is, what self-respecting software pirate (or theif, if you will) would be caught sending their key to a friend knowing this? Is it not simple enough to install the software, zip up the files installed and send that file around? I know for a fact I could probably locate all the files of the FSD Commander. Would I? No, definitely not, but imagine for a dedicated software pirate.Of course, if you want secure copyright protection I think something along the lines of the means RealityXP uses. If you move or delete the key file then it simply does not work, and whats best is it contains names! So of course, if you ship it around the web and RealityXP catches you, they have your name and can easily pursue action. Sounds like its a little better than spying on the paying users computers, limiting installs, nullifying keys, and generally angering many many customers.Not to mention, and in defense of the original poster, if the claims of the seperate IP's are true, did anybody ever consider the possibility of a hacker? I run a broadband connection that often times is not firewalled (due to uploading, communications, and sometimes I forget). It would be very easy for somebody who is determined enough to get their hands on a key off my computer without me knowing, and then distrubuting it on the web. Is it my fault? Maybe being careless if it happens, but I would not consider anybody guilty of this guilty of piracy.Lastly, all methods aside, every developer should know that piracy will happen. No matter how strong the copy protection on a CD, there are probably people who can burn it, if they are resolute enough. The question is, how much do you want to isolate and annoy users in the name of a small amount of profit? I know in this community more than any other customer loyalty is a must, and through this situation I think FSD has lost quite a few potential customers, and will never see profits from those few (including myself) again.Scott________________________________http://www.x-plane.org/users/scottsfsdl/Si...tlanticSun2.gifScott's FS Downloads

>Bottom line is that any developer of multimedia, gameing,>software, or software addons has the right to protect their>products, investments, business as they deem neccessary.:-)What about THE RIGHTS OF THE CUSTOMER??? Doesn

HERE HERE!!!

POST A PROFANE MESSAGE LIKE THAT AGAIN, AND YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO POST AT ALL.

Well said Jim,Thanks for the balanced, reasonable and informed comment.CheersChris Porter:-outtaPerthWestern Australia

Unfortunately, FSD will eventually learn the same lessons as Intel, Intuit and Dave March did with his Flight Deck Companion.For those of us who don't follow such matters, in 1999 Intel had the bright idea to include a processor serial number on each PIII chip ,that was turned on by default, so that online vendors could authorize purchases to specific computers. Consumers revolted at the plan - no one was in favor of having their processor ID tracked and Intel was eventually forced to retract this plan.

After having Dealings, with FSD in the past, I can say this comes as no suprise, I found them Very rude, when their server was giving out corrupted files, they blamed me, then because I was trying to install it so many times, I got locked out, and Had to explain myself to.I formated my PC twice because they said it was working for over 300 users, on that day. well that cant of been true if the server was giving courpted install file. When they finally did admit it was THEIR SERVER!!, they did not even say sorry. I think FSD make superb products, but their attituide is wrong, and I hope a stint of low or zero business revenue shows them customers, are their best friend. Jason

Had the same thing happen to me. I've purchased about all of FSD's aircraft in the past. Never have asked for any support for any of them. Purchased a new Dell XPS system(which is great by the way:) ).Installed all of my payware on the new system but had several problems with the machine for the first weed or two. I had to re-install windows and replace a hard drive, etc. All add-ons worked out fine except FSD. I went through the same routine with being accused of putting the aircraft (Commander) on several machines because of IP addresses. Don't know about IP addresses but I know that I'm sitting in the same place I always do running FS and addons on one machine. Finally was told that I was to much trouble because I changed my hardware too often and tey would terminate my licence.Mind you, there were only 4 e-mails exchanged during a 2 week period!NO other payware aircraft had these problems. FSD's attitude stinks and their anti-piracy setup surely stinks if they believe I'm installing on more than one machine.Like I told them, I'm a 50 year old "kid" who enjoys FS and has upward of $2k worth of add-on software etc for FS. I don't need to steal there $20.00 airplanes.George Stoddard

now you tell me, I just brought the GMAX commander and cheyenne on friday.Dan.EDIT: Please watch the language.JPForum Moderator

Just an additional note. I just read on another forum that using Partition Magic to resize your hard drive partitions will trigger the software that is protected under these machine codes to quit working. I guess the thing that bothers me the most is that by nature, the folks who spend the money for thes flight sim add-ons are usually the "hardcore" simmers. The ones I know are constantly screwing around with there hardware, software, etc trying to get a little more performance. When I went through the ordeal I stated above, I was "chastised" several times by Steve Small for messing with my setup too much. OOPS, sorry, didn't know I couldn't play with my own computer without cancelling my ability to use the software that I paid for in the first place.Oh well live and learn. Every other add-on developer I have software from has been very understanding and didn't feel that I was "too much trouble"George Stoddard

> now you tell me, I just brought the GMAX commander>and cheyenne on friday.>>Dan.Sorry Dude, I feel we are all in the same boat, Whats going to happen when we are all installing our FSD products into FS2004 !!!!.All is going to break lose :). I hope FSD are going to make plans for this.EDIT: Please watch the languageJPForum Moderator

Exibit A:Me!After the mess I see going on with Captain Sims 727, PMDG and now FSD I have decided not to buy machine locked add ons. I'm tempted to give Captain Sims one last try because I realy want their F-104 and in the past they where very generous when I lost the install packages of their add-ons but in all other cases I have drawn the line.Like the starter of this topic I like to reinstall my main machine chance partition sizes and use different boot partitions. Its not that I'm not able to take care of my machine in my daily job I manage 600 Workstations and 26 servers but a home machine thats different. I like to try out software, change settings, install again, try a new install (especially with FS2002 and all the add-ons I have) etc.The most idiotic part of machine locking is that when you're in to overclocking your machine you can forget about the add-on.The Flight Simmers market is famous for people that constantly upgrade their machine. This forums is full of tips on how to change system settings to get better performance. In case you did not notice. People constantly upgrading an chancing their machine either have a lot of money or spend o lot of hard earned cash in this hobby. By machine locking the add-ons you will loose these customers. I hope for the parties concerned that the illegal copy makers are not just a bunch of curious people that never would spend that much mony on amere add-on for their pirated copy of FS2004