[/url]Hello thereJust hoping someone could help please.Just about got the knack of FMC SID STARs etc.Quesiton is, some STARs are really simple and quite clearly display the runway you are heading too like KLAS http://map.aeroplanner.com/plates/FaaPlate.../00662KEPEC.PDF With this STAR it is immediatly obvious to me that the runway is at the top right.ButWith some STARs I can not even work out were the Airport I am meant to be landing at is on the chart.I have tried looking at tutorial videos but they always use easy charts were the airport is obvious.For example on this chart...http://www.edll-fir.de/fileadmin/user_uplo...EDDL_STAR23.pdfis the Airport I am heading to 1 In the center were 3 black arrows point to ?2 Near the bottom of the chart, the greyed out circle above and to the right of KUBIM waypoint?3 Somewere else?And if you are felling really helpful please can you tell me were Stansted Airport EGSS (the airport I am heading to) is on this STARhttp://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/...EGSS_7-2_en.pdfMany ThanksLawrence

That German chart is odd. It's like the STAR leads to a holding point or something at BOTThe actual airport EDDL is under the DUS vor (see the two parallel runways?)lol, the Stansted one is even more confusing to me. But I think the STAR leads to LOREL or the BKY vor at which point ATC will assign vectors to all aircraft on the approach.Hopefully someone who flies in the UK can explain this mess hah!

What you've got there is a classic example of the fact that not all charts are as good as they could be, especially when, like that one, they are intended to be used to arrive at several airports rather than just one, and are intended to involve a lot of ATC interaction (see the notes at the bottom left of that chart).There is a very famous instance of a poorly laid-out chart resulting in a very bad air disaster, when Thai Airways A310 HS-TID flew into the side of a mountain in the Himalayas in 1992 whilst on approach to Kathmandu airport. The crew were using a chart that was as replication of one created for SAS airlines, which has a very misleading drawing of where the ROMEO fix that is the IAF for an approach to Kathmandu is located. The crew thought that the SIERRA fix (which is much nearer the airport) marked on that chart was the ROMEO fix (it does look a lot like that on that SAS chart), and so they were puzzled as to why they could not see it on their PFD and why they did not appear to be able to tune it in either (in reality it was many miles behind them).Whilst they were faffing around trying to figure it out, they were at 11,500 feet, and thought they were well clear of terrain because of that chart. Unfortunately they were not where they thought they were and the terrain rose up to over 14,000 feet and was shrouded in clouds. They flew into the side of a mountain and everyone on board was killed. This is why a lot of airline pilots get their hand in their pocket and buy the Jeppesen charts, which for Kathmandu (and most other places) are a lot better laid out that some of the other charts you sometimes see.The tracks you see on that confusing chart you have, go right across the middle of the UK, and in reality, you can't fly through that airspace without ATC telling you when to breathe, let alone which way to turn and where to hold at LOL.Al

[/url]Hello thereJust hoping someone could help please.For example on this chart...http://www.edll-fir.de/fileadmin/user_uplo...EDDL_STAR23.pdfis the Airport I am heading to 1 In the center were 3 black arrows point to ?2 Near the bottom of the chart, the greyed out circle above and to the right of KUBIM waypoint?3 Somewere else?

Yes, the STAR is for use in approach to the 23L/R runways shown in the gray oval area.AKRON 7G is from AKRON to BOT, and shares a leg withXAMOD 1G from XAMOD to BOTLMA 7G is from LMA to BOTKUBIN 1G is from KUBIN to BOTDOMUX 1G is from DOMUX to BAMIf you look at the ILS approach charts for Rwy 23L and 23R, you see that there are two transitions for each, namely BOT and BAM.scott s..

For example on this chart...http://www.edll-fir.de/fileadmin/user_uplo...EDDL_STAR23.pdfis the Airport I am heading to 1 In the center were 3 black arrows point to ?2 Near the bottom of the chart, the greyed out circle above and to the right of KUBIM waypoint?3 Somewere else?

The airport would be your #2 option. The 3 arrows are just pointing out the direction where you came from to arrive to the Bottrop NDB. From then, your next chart would be ILS or LOC for runway 23L/R.

And if you are felling really helpful please can you tell me were Stansted Airport EGSS (the airport I am heading to) is on this STARhttp://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/...EGSS_7-2_en.pdf

There's a note below: "See Inset". That means "look for the other chart". But actually, the airport is (badly) depicted on the lower right corner, below the 1800 grid mora sign.

The airport would be your #2 option. The 3 arrows are just pointing out the direction whee you came from to arrive to the Bottrop NDB. From then, your next chart would be ILS or LOC for runway 32L/R.There's a note below: "See Inset". That means "look for the other chart". But actually, the airport is (badly) depicted on the lower right corner, below the 1800 grid mora sign.

Many thanks scott967 & DC_Ed , that all makes sense now, based on what you said I found this for the Dusseldorf STAR, http://www.edll-fir.de/fileadmin/user_uplo...EDDL_ILS23L.pdf !!!!!Thanks also to ryanbatcund & Chock