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Dark Moment

Got FSAA on in FS 2004? Turn it off !!!

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Sheesh, I am amazed how even 2x FSAA with far right slider settings almost cripples my PC, and with 1024 RDRAM on a high-end DELL. Now it is amazingly smooth without FSAA and sliders are full right on almost everything except TRAFFIC. You CAN have too much cloud effects as well by full righti-ing them but it's fun to have that option available.Anyway, turn off FSAA and keep it off. It is a waste of power.JS

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What about the jaggies? How horrible are they with it turned off?

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Learn to live with them until someone comes up with more frame-rate friendly clouds. You'll have far better luck running at a higher resolution than with FSAA.

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Yes, in Windowed mode, they are moderately ghastly. But in full screen mode (which I use all the time after opening FS2004), it is a great deal better. I have a primary 21" TRINITRON set to 1280x1024x32 and honestly, it looks very good in full screen with FSAA turned off. The world in general looks very good around me without FSAA. In FS2002, it seemed a little less fine with FSAA turned off but it helped on that too.JS

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I hate to ask, but what are you running FS9 on? I am running either 4x FSAA and 16x AF with no problems at 1600 x 1200 x 32 in full or windowed. Nonetheless, I will try it with no FSAA and see.Noel

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Hiya,I have 2 questions about this subject. First one what is FSAA??? and where can I find it???????? Second one at what setting must Anti-aliasing be?????????Regards,L.Jim

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I have 1ghz lo-end & 19"crt. No AA of course but 1600 x1280 resolution and the edges are quite smooth because of hi-resolutionDick KLBE

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They are talking about Flight Simulator Anti Aliasing. It's the setting in your DISPLAY options under Hardware that gets rid of jagged edges.This new version takes a mighty hit if you enable it, and is unusable on anything but a top end system unless you're happy with 5 FPS or less which I'm not. A compromise is to turn it off within FS but enable it through your video card settings if you have that facility; that saves a frame or two.It's annoying, however, that here we are with the best developed sim yet but we have to turn off the things that make it look good in order to get it to run. AA is one; clouds are the other. I was flying the UK coast last night but as I turned for Exeter at Start Point and saw clouds on the horizon my FPS dropped from 17 to 3. Sheeesh. And that's in default aircraft in a virgin sim. I now tremble when I see a cloud ... it's like seeing a pack of enemy fighters coming in!Sometimes MS push the limits too far, I think. It doesn't have to be this way. I only hope that if Chris Willis does his cloud thing for FS2004 he can get FPS UP, not push it down further. Chris?!Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumonthttp://www.swiremariners.com/newlogo.jpg

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I have a DELL P4 2.53 Ghz, 1024 RDRAM + Ti4600 card. I CAN run it with FSAA and it does work (OK, the machine is not "crippled" by FS2004, just compromised by it), but I lose about 7 to 9 fps with that utility on at 2x. At 4x, fps drop rather more.I am just fed up dealing with any stutters in FS and buying a new machine every 3 years to fit with a new generation of FS that STILL over-exerts any average processor. Your machine is not just an Athlon; it is "athletic" !I bet you could run FS2004 with no FSAA at the res you have and see little to no diff. I don't run at that res because the desktop and other fonts are too small for my eyes.Please post any reply or advice and I shall keep experimenting.Cheers!JS

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Many things determine if you should use FSAA, a high resolution, or both.You say that you loose 9 FPS by turning on FSAA. Well, how much FPS do you loose from going from e.g. 1024x768 to 1600x1200? Think of FSAA as a way of artificially increasing the resolution.My monitor only does 75Hz at 1600x1200. The next 4/3 resolution available is 1280x960 in which my monitor does 85Hz. However, if I choose 1152x864, I get 100 Hz, and, there's enough power to spare to enable me to use 4x FSAA and still maintain 23 FPS (locked) most of the time. Combined with Anisotropic Filtering, the textures are still extremely sharp.Some people may also have LCD displays limited to a lower resolution.Now, if I had a monitor that did 85 Hz, preferably 100Hz at 1600x1200, I would use that, and 2x FSAA, but even at 1600x1200, some FSAA is required to smooth out jaggies.You say you have a Ti4600. Those cards are not really fast enough for FSAA, and they are extremely slow at anisotropic filtering. With such a card, running 1600x1200 with no AA and maybe Level 4 Anisotropic filtering would probably be ideal.BTW, has anyone done an Athlon vs. Pentium4 comparison with FS? The Pentium4 is usually slower than the Athlon XP on software not optimized for SSE2/P4, but if FS2004 is optimized for SSE2 and the Pentium4, the P4 may be faster.

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JimmiG:Your recommendation is an interesting idea--but I am amazed (and rather appalled) that you say my Ti4600 is not really fast enough for FSAA. Is it not a huge capacity 3-D video card ?The whole performance issue of FS is really getting absurd as I enter my 7th year of simming. No PC seems to ever be fast enough to max out the current issue of FS and we are lured to the next generation by all those juicy MS screenshots which we find we cannot get without overstressing our PC. In any event, this is not criticism of you; it is criticism of the fact that we amateurs (like me) are sold a bill of goods by the PC makers and by MS. And we continue to wolf it down and say "Thank You. Some more, please?"!!JS

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>They are talking about Flight Simulator Anti Aliasing.Actually, not to nitpick..."Full Screen" Anti Aliasing is the actual term. :) IN the past some programs would anti-alias only portions of the screen and image. As technology improved, the capability to do full screen work came into being. And as such, Full Screen Anti Aliasing. The first cards to do it niiice were some of the late-model 3DFX cards.

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I think the fact that "No PC seems to ever be fast enough to max out the current issue of FS" is a REALLY GOOD thing!By employing technologies and features which are bleeding edge, Microsoft just "bought" more time for this version to be viable. Newer computers *will* come, maybe not to you or me, but someone. And they will be able to enjoy FS2004 a lot more. With that extra time, addon developers and the community can make the simulator so much more than what it is on release day - hence the fact that a great many of us here still run FS2002 alongside FS2004. It will be a while before FS2002 disappears off of many hard drives. If Microsoft designed the flight sim series directly for the current crop of higher-end machines, who knows what features or items would have been left out or otherwise ignored. I'm running a 3.0 GhZ (HT), 512 MB, Radeon 9800 Pro (4x AA, 16x AS driver setting) powered machine, and even I cannot move the weather (clouds) sliders full right - in fact, mine are limited about halfway. But I don't judge the sim by where my sliders are - I judge it by the enjoyment it provides... and the sim looks absolutely FAN-FREAKIN-TASTIC. Anyway - rant over. :)-Greg

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i run 4xx aa and good clouds and 100% trafic have no problem with fpsdonp4 3.061 gig ramti 4600

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To be fair, Microsoft releases a new version roughly every 2 years. The liftime of most systems is about 18 months. If this was essentially a downgrade for people with mid grade systems you'd have a point. I've played with COF for a few days now on a couple of different systems and while there are issues, that isn't the case (for me anyway).I'll bet a year from now you have a completely diferent point of view.

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Okay a few things first if you turn off the panel as texture in the FS9.CFG you will not see your 2d Panel in the sim. If you use the VC all the time this is not a problem except when selecting you will have a big black spot where the 2d panel should be. It's not a great saving on framss but a little if you like.FSAA being able to select that outside also does have a bit saving on FPS about 2-4 depending on your external setting. It's not that the AA inside FS is bad it's just perhaps bigger then needed if you could set that inside FS it would be a great idea. Instead of AA on or OFF select the amount just like all the other setting that have more the ON/OFF. Anyway I have it on - on my FS9 however I have an new way to save some framesTurn off the Extended textures. The textures you have in the highest texture setting Extremely Dense are quite good so extending them even farther takes up about 5 FPS. I did this at meigs (sorry to here about the airport BTW) and got about a 5 FPS increase. The textures look just as good as before. I know they are distant textures by the way...With Cold Front selected and the baron on the runway I'm getting about 15FPS I have a P4-2.4 and TI4200. This isn't bad I figure. It does go higher and lower but mostly higher. I hate the idea of having to turn off stuff too. The sky in the sim is the best part I think and it's there that you should concentrate your frames. Most of the other settings including traffic are at the very dence level. I wish also that MS would have the settings like a number 3 for highest and 1 for lowest or something so when your talking about it you don't have to say so much.. (eg: Setting 3/Setting 1)Getting the sim to 15 frames or above and having most of the setting at near highest is pretty darn cool. I have noticed something else. Perhaps mostly for the chopper pilots out there. The crash detect has been increased (very accurate now). This makes taxiing a lot easier (once I got my yoke working of course).The skys are in a word Awesome... I love the clouds. I do think however that these are the clouds that we had before in fs98. The ones you couldn't turn on before. I'm glad there back. They look fabulous.. No doubt about it...Ronson2k

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>>JimmiG:>>Your recommendation is an interesting idea--but I am amazed>(and rather appalled) that you say my Ti4600 is not really>fast enough for FSAA. Is it not a huge capacity 3-D video>card ?That is right, a GF4TI4600 is a wimp compared to todays best video cards, AA kills the performance as you yourself have found out. :)AF is also a performance drain on GF4TI cards on down.If you want to use AA and expect good performance in such a game as FS2k4 you will need a card that can handle it such as a ATI9500p/9700p/9800pro or Nv FX5900/5900 ultra.It really is as $imple as that.

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Thanks everybody for leaping in; this is a good thread.OK, you are right--what matters is how it LOOKS, not the fps indicator. But fps still gives a guide of sorts and is helpful to some extent.Tonight, for the first time ever, I went to 1600x1200x32 res with no FSAA, setting clouds to max 3D and max DENSE in DISPLAY settings, and I got a steady 24 fps in the default Baron over the LA basin. I got similar or slightly less fps in the default Cessna. Flying over downtown LA, fps fell over areas of heavy buildings, but motion was generally fluid. With this resolution, I see no significant jaggies at all (at any angle) on the TRINITRON 21" which is really satisfying. Driving INTO the clouds, frames fell a lot, but they seemed to average 15 (falling to 10 or 12 now and then, rising to 18 at other moments) in heavy cumulus set to 5000-11000' at 5/8 or 6/8 density. Much of the fps/visual performance seems to depend on one's position, perspective and angle, etc. I am still sickened to hear that my Ti4600 is a wimp in today's FS world! Anyway, right now, this version of FS2004 is pristine, virgin, with no 3rd pty add-ons. We shall see if I am still getting this fluid show with MelJet, POSKY, etc. + add-on panels (I fancy not!)Then again, mebbe I'll just fly with no add-ons and enjoy this as simply a VFR sim.JS

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"I am amazed (and rather appalled) that you say my Ti4600 is not really fast enough for FSAA. Is it not a huge capacity 3-D video card ?"The Ti4600 is 1.5 years old. That's an eternity in the age of computers. When it came out, it was a great card, capable of running 4x FSAA in the most demanding sims out at the time. Now, even budget cards such as the Radeon 9500 and 9600, as well as Nvidia's mid-range GeforceFX cards are faster.It's still a great card, but it's not fast enough for 4x FSAA and/or 8x Anisotropic filtering in the games that are available today. If you stick with 2x FSAA and 4x Anisotropic, you'll be able to enjoy the card for another year before you have to upgrade. If you always want to play with the highest settings, 4x FSAA etc. then the only way is to buy a new videocard, as well as a processor, motherboard, RAM...the lot...every year :(BTW, I have discovered one framerate problem on my system. Sometimes, the FPS will drop to about 6-8 FPS when looking in CERTAIN directions. Looking in another direction resturns to the normal FPS. The strange thing here is that there's usually NOTHING complex in the direction. It's usually just a country landing strip or a small GA airport or something. Saving the flight, exiting FS2004, then re-loading the flight also usually fixes the framerate?!

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Jimmi, I run with 2xAA and 4xAF on my Ti4200 which is slower than your card.. and it runs just fine and the scenery looks lovely. Try those settings for a while and enjoy FS9.. there is lots to see (and try out)!BTW.. until Nvidia releases new drivers, the 30.82 drivers seem to be the only ones that are rock solid with FS9 in full screen mode and Anti-Aliasing. (Use Rivatuner to set AF with those - older - drivers)

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Bert:I am using the nVidia 45.20 betas in FULL SCREEN and having success. I start in Windows mode, then switch to full screen mode, and load a Cessna flight that I created in full screen, and all the menus and settings and even the sound work normally. Why? I have no idea !If I start the sim in full screen mode, then I get black patches and no sound loads with the 2D cockpit until I push the throttle lever forward a tad. Then the sound kicks in.Well, we live and....get baffled !JS

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